Murray completes the Impossible

[joshjull]

Not trying to hijack the thread but sabres used video to scout overseas and cut back on using scouts overseas. If you think that is smart just ask the detroit red wings how they do it.

Staring at a film doesn't tell you who the player is and yes, our drafting was terrible then.

Thats not quite what happened. Read the link in my previous post. It does a nice job laying out what happened.

 

[tsujimoto74]

I wasn't referring to the use of video specifically. My memory (old and decrepit as it is) was that they drastically cut back on actual scouts at the time.

Glancing at that article, it doesn't really say they didn't cut back on live scouts, and suggests they did with "But although Golisano was an owner who spent well above the salary cap minimum, his budget for the amateur side was not nearly so big, forcing management to expand the process by a significant degree."

Doesn't really matter any more, but goes along with my broader point of Regier issues being intertwined with ownership issues (as if that's not always the case).

As an IT person I'm almost always in favor of more tech to enhance/supplement knowledge. Sometimes you just need a bigger hammer though

Oh, they definitely cut back big time on actual amateur scouts in that era. I think we were at 9 after between cuts made for budget and guys who left because they didn't want to work under those circumstances (less scouts obviously means more workload, and video scouting was a pretty new concept back then, and it didn't have a lot of admirers). Our amateur scouting staff is double that now.

I think it's fair to say that ownership restricted Regier in many ways back then, between the budget limits, the constant need to be buyers to try to get playoff revenue, and the stupid rules ownership had about contract negotiations. But Regier also had some time without those constraints, and the solutions he came up with for our hole #1C then were Ville Leino and Cody Hodgson. So, you know, a little from column A, a little from column B. Ownership, GM, there's enough blame to go around.

 

[YoungGrapes]

The easy part is done now for GMTM, and I bet you my bottom dollar he was sweating his ass off down the stretch. The easiest trades are done when you are unloading to get get prospects/draft picks. My thoughts on Kane are this, if there wasn't a serious character flaw with him the Jets would of never moved him. The Sabres gave the Jets a sweetheart deal, I heard Paul Maurice on XM saying how good Tyler Myers has been for them and will be a franchise d for years to come. Myers was a great character Sabres on and off the ice, can't say the same for Kane in WPG.

Literally 9/10 Canadian kids could make the McDavid or Eichel pick at the draft that doesn't prove his worth as a GM (look at EDM). What will separate him from EDM will be his 2-7th round picks. Reinhardt will be given every chance to be a 2nd line centre, you heard it here first he won't be ready next year. I will even predict that he is a career third line centre.

For all the Nolan bashing, I would move forward with him and his staff next season for two reasons. 1) Look at the roster this had for the majority or year (especially second half), the injuries they had and the call ups they had left the team extremely light. Hell the in the last game of the season they had Grigaorenko, Larrson, Dalpe, Ellis, Ruhwedel, Varrone 6 players that were in Roch for the majority of the season whom were last or second last most of the season in the AHL. These guys didn't even tear up the AHL let alone be solid NHLers. Nolan and Staff got the absolute most out of this glorified AHL roster all season long and got these to work extremely hard (there weren't to many blowout games score wise all season) not to mention 3 different starting goalies. 2) Everyone says that he will be bringing in Luke Richardson, TM would be a fool to bring in his own guy this early in the rebuild. The team is not going to be competitive for at least 2-3 years even with McDavid or Eichel, by the time they are ready to be a playoff team the fan base will want a coaching change. Bring Nolan and Staff back, let him preach a strong work ethic, give some consistency behind the bench a-la Michelle Therion in Pitt then bring in your Bylsma to win the Cup if needed.

Off-Topic but I watched 75+ games this season and from I saw from Cody Hodgson I think he may be the most over paid practice player in the NHL. He literally cost the Sabres the CBJ game with a brutal turnover and awful defensive positioning, I bet Lindback could beat him in a race from goal line to goal line and back. I honestly think that they are scared to put him in the AHL because he would be passed over in the top and again is junk to play in the bottom 6

 

[Heraldic]

Without a war of words.....

Darcy never addressed the center situation for 5 years.

Enough said.

Last time you said this exact thing, I offered a pretty deep break-down to debunk this claim, and you never came to defend your stance.

 

[wunderpanda]

No way has Murray completed the job. The prospects who showed progress aren't even players he brought in to the organization.

Yes, he finished 30th with a team that finished 30th, he made trades for players who we haven't played a game for us yet. Even after the upcoming draft, everything is still *wait and see*.

Nothing impossible happened, the worst team lost a lot and retained the worst team status. Adding 2 rookie centers and Evander is the beginning of Murrays task, not the end.

 

[YoungGrapes]

The rumour out of Boston is Eichel is going to return to BU for at least 1 more season. I no doubt think that McDavid will be a superstar in the NHL, but food for thought.


Steve Stamkos - Pure scorer was the rage in 2008 draft - went to conference final and lost in first round in his two playoff appearances. Also had St. Louis and Lecavalier that year to play with.
John Tavares - Was talked about like McDavid going into 2009 draft - Made playoffs once lost in rd 1
Taylor Hall - He was the next big thing when he was drafted first overall in 2010 = 0 playoffs
RNH - He was the next playmaker a-la Adam Oats to set up Hall in 2011 = 0 playoffs
Nail Yakapov - The best Russian out of the OHL top player in 2012 draft = 0 playoffs
Nathan McKinnon - was a stud his rookie, tough sophomore year 2013 = won 1 round in playoffs
Aaron Ekblad - Should be a finalist for Calder 2014 draft = No playoffs

So since 2008 draft 7 years of first overall picks only Stamkos and McKinnon have gotten through the first round of playoffs, both players had very good supporting casts. Edmonton blew up their team and went young and haven't been close to the playoffs with 3 exceptional first overall picks. The Islanders made the playoffs once and got bumped in the first round Tavares has been there for 6 years, the team he had was a lot like the Sabres in respect to his supporting cast. The funny thing is the last Islanders made the playoffs before Tavares was when Nolan and Dan Flynn were coaching and took that team of nobodies there.

Don't hold your breath that this will be a quick rebuild Sabres fans.

 

[Heraldic]

The rumour out of Boston is Eichel is going to return to BU for at least 1 more season. I no doubt think that McDavid will be a superstar in the NHL, but food for thought.


Steve Stamkos - Pure scorer was the rage in 2008 draft - went to conference final and lost in first round in his two playoff appearances. Also had St. Louis and Lecavalier that year to play with.
John Tavares - Was talked about like McDavid going into 2009 draft - Made playoffs once lost in rd 1
Taylor Hall - He was the next big thing when he was drafted first overall in 2010 = 0 playoffs
RNH - He was the next playmaker a-la Adam Oats to set up Hall in 2011 = 0 playoffs
Nail Yakapov - The best Russian out of the OHL top player in 2012 draft = 0 playoffs
Nathan McKinnon - was a stud his rookie, tough sophomore year 2013 = won 1 round in playoffs
Aaron Ekblad - Should be a finalist for Calder 2014 draft = No playoffs

So since 2008 draft 7 years of first overall picks only Stamkos and McKinnon have gotten through the first round of playoffs, both players had very good supporting casts. Edmonton blew up their team and went young and haven't been close to the playoffs with 3 exceptional first overall picks. The Islanders made the playoffs once and got bumped in the first round Tavares has been there for 6 years, the team he had was a lot like the Sabres in respect to his supporting cast. The funny thing is the last Islanders made the playoffs before Tavares was when Nolan and Dan Flynn were coaching and took that team of nobodies there.

Don't hold your breath that this will be a quick rebuild Sabres fans.

Outside the picks that Edmonton and Florida have drafted, everyone has playoff-experience. And Florida was pretty close already.

So I wouldn't base too much on that.

And none of those organisations had the ammunition or the will to speed up things like Sabres have.

 

[Duddy]

McEichel is better though. Not to mention our D is pretty damn set as well, which isn't the case for the Oiler, Avs or the Isles before this season.

No worries, we Sabres fans know what's up. Nobody expects the team to go and win a cup next season, but they'll have a quicker turnaround than Edmonton, the Isles and the other never has beens.

 

[kcoxsabresfan]

The rumour out of Boston is Eichel is going to return to BU for at least 1 more season. I no doubt think that McDavid will be a superstar in the NHL, but food for thought.


Steve Stamkos - Pure scorer was the rage in 2008 draft - went to conference final and lost in first round in his two playoff appearances. Also had St. Louis and Lecavalier that year to play with.
John Tavares - Was talked about like McDavid going into 2009 draft - Made playoffs once lost in rd 1
Taylor Hall - He was the next big thing when he was drafted first overall in 2010 = 0 playoffs
RNH - He was the next playmaker a-la Adam Oats to set up Hall in 2011 = 0 playoffs
Nail Yakapov - The best Russian out of the OHL top player in 2012 draft = 0 playoffs
Nathan McKinnon - was a stud his rookie, tough sophomore year 2013 = won 1 round in playoffs
Aaron Ekblad - Should be a finalist for Calder 2014 draft = No playoffs

So since 2008 draft 7 years of first overall picks only Stamkos and McKinnon have gotten through the first round of playoffs, both players had very good supporting casts. Edmonton blew up their team and went young and haven't been close to the playoffs with 3 exceptional first overall picks. The Islanders made the playoffs once and got bumped in the first round Tavares has been there for 6 years, the team he had was a lot like the Sabres in respect to his supporting cast. The funny thing is the last Islanders made the playoffs before Tavares was when Nolan and Dan Flynn were coaching and took that team of nobodies there.

Don't hold your breath that this will be a quick rebuild Sabres fans.

Of course the people in Boston want Eichel to come back to Boston, but it's not going to happen. Going to the NHL equals NHL contract money sooner, ufa status sooner, endorsement deals sooner, and a chance to maximize years earning NHL revenue and building an NHL legacy.

The list of #1 picks playoff success looks bad when 3/7 players you included are oilers picks. You could go back three more years and add Kane and Crosby, cup winners. I think most Sabres fans would be pleased with the early performances of Mackinnon and Ekblad. While they haven't won cups yet, Stamkos and Tavares have done their part. And McEichel is supposed to be better than any of them.

 

[CatsforReinhart]

Of course the people in Boston want Eichel to come back to Boston, but it's not going to happen. Going to the NHL equals NHL contract money sooner, ufa status sooner, endorsement deals sooner, and a chance to maximize years earning NHL revenue and building an NHL legacy.

The list of #1 picks playoff success looks bad when 3/7 players you included are oilers picks. You could go back three more years and add Kane and Crosby, cup winners. I think most Sabres fans would be pleased with the early performances of Mackinnon and Ekblad. While they haven't won cups yet, Stamkos and Tavares have done their part. And McEichel is supposed to be better than any of them.

This....Girgensons was also going to go to college before and when he got drafted.

Money and fame have a way of changing things.

 

[SabreBlood]

I can't say that, and I didn't say that at all.

Yes he's responsible for the lack of acquiring new centers. But my point was that, it's not easy to acquire new centers outside of spending tons in FA or top picks. So if ownership wasn't going to spend at least in the years after the captains left, where were these top lines centers coming from?

Again, ignoring the ownership issues is silly, but whatever, he's gone, and this period of hockey is long gone as well.

At least we have some center prospects now and to come

He only drafted two centers in the first two rounds of any draft after Drury/Briere left (Tyler Ennis/Luke Adam) from 2007 all the way until 2012 when Grigorenko and Girgensons were finally selected. That's 5 drafts and only two centers drafted high, and they were selected in the same draft ('08). That had nothing to do with ownership. You're right. If you're not going to draft them, you're almost never going to get them. (I say "almost never" because Tyler Seguin was traded while Regier was the Sabres GM).

Also, while Golisano owned the team, he increased the payroll by 92% between the years of 2005-2011, when he sold the team to Pegula.

Despite a salary cap in the NHL and shared revenues, the Sabres’ team payroll has increased 92 percent during recent seasons rising from $29.25 million in 2005-2006 to $56.1 million this year (2011)

http://www.bizjournals.com/buffalo/news/2011/02/03/golisano-era-ending-with-sabres.html?page=all

The money to spend was there. It was there at an even higher level after Pegula purchased the team and Regier totally botched that as well.

It's great that he's gone and it's great that we'll finally have enough centers on the ice in game 1 next season for the first time since 2007. It's been a long 8 years. I concur!

 

[EichHart]

The rumour out of Boston is Eichel is going to return to BU for at least 1 more season. I no doubt think that McDavid will be a superstar in the NHL, but food for thought.

What?

 

[TalkingProuder]

The rumour out of Boston is Eichel is going to return to BU for at least 1 more season. I no doubt think that McDavid will be a superstar in the NHL, but food for thought.


Steve Stamkos - Pure scorer was the rage in 2008 draft - went to conference final and lost in first round in his two playoff appearances. Also had St. Louis and Lecavalier that year to play with.
John Tavares - Was talked about like McDavid going into 2009 draft - Made playoffs once lost in rd 1
Taylor Hall - He was the next big thing when he was drafted first overall in 2010 = 0 playoffs
RNH - He was the next playmaker a-la Adam Oats to set up Hall in 2011 = 0 playoffs
Nail Yakapov - The best Russian out of the OHL top player in 2012 draft = 0 playoffs
Nathan McKinnon - was a stud his rookie, tough sophomore year 2013 = won 1 round in playoffs
Aaron Ekblad - Should be a finalist for Calder 2014 draft = No playoffs

So since 2008 draft 7 years of first overall picks only Stamkos and McKinnon have gotten through the first round of playoffs, both players had very good supporting casts. Edmonton blew up their team and went young and haven't been close to the playoffs with 3 exceptional first overall picks. The Islanders made the playoffs once and got bumped in the first round Tavares has been there for 6 years, the team he had was a lot like the Sabres in respect to his supporting cast. The funny thing is the last Islanders made the playoffs before Tavares was when Nolan and Dan Flynn were coaching and took that team of nobodies there.

Don't hold your breath that this will be a quick rebuild Sabres fans.

Was the user name sourgrapes taken?!

 

[OkimLom]

The rumour out of Boston is Eichel is going to return to BU for at least 1 more season. I no doubt think that McDavid will be a superstar in the NHL, but food for thought.


Steve Stamkos - Pure scorer was the rage in 2008 draft - went to conference final and lost in first round in his two playoff appearances. Also had St. Louis and Lecavalier that year to play with.
John Tavares - Was talked about like McDavid going into 2009 draft - Made playoffs once lost in rd 1
Taylor Hall - He was the next big thing when he was drafted first overall in 2010 = 0 playoffs
RNH - He was the next playmaker a-la Adam Oats to set up Hall in 2011 = 0 playoffs
Nail Yakapov - The best Russian out of the OHL top player in 2012 draft = 0 playoffs
Nathan McKinnon - was a stud his rookie, tough sophomore year 2013 = won 1 round in playoffs
Aaron Ekblad - Should be a finalist for Calder 2014 draft = No playoffs

So since 2008 draft 7 years of first overall picks only Stamkos and McKinnon have gotten through the first round of playoffs, both players had very good supporting casts. Edmonton blew up their team and went young and haven't been close to the playoffs with 3 exceptional first overall picks. The Islanders made the playoffs once and got bumped in the first round Tavares has been there for 6 years, the team he had was a lot like the Sabres in respect to his supporting cast. The funny thing is the last Islanders made the playoffs before Tavares was when Nolan and Dan Flynn were coaching and took that team of nobodies there.

Don't hold your breath that this will be a quick rebuild Sabres fans.

Can you provide the source that said this?

Also, you're telling us that it takes a solid built team to make the playoffs and not just one player? Ha, I'll believe it when I see it.

 

[Chad Thundercock]

Eichel has also said many times how important BU and college is to him. It's not unthinkable that he returns for a year or two. Big sports stud in college is quite a nice life that you've got one chance at.

 

[Matt Ress]

Eichel has also said many times how important BU and college is to him. It's not unthinkable that he returns for a year or two. Big sports stud in college is quite a nice life that you've got one chance at.

Big, rich sports stud in every city would be pretty sweet.

 

[Rhett4]

Eichel has also said many times how important BU and college is to him. It's not unthinkable that he returns for a year or two. Big sports stud in college is quite a nice life that you've got one chance at.

A million plus dollars at 18 is always pretty sweet. I could see Eichel going either way. If he does return, I imagine it would be a one-year thing. Risking three more years of college hockey before he makes a dime would be a strange career move.

I'm also hoping that "I'm coming for you, Buffalo!" is a good sign. Even months ago he knew where he'd likely end up, and it's not that far from where he grew up in the scheme of things.

 

[Beerz]

Lets be real....

Right now...all of his influences are probably pushing him to go back to school (Parents, Coaches, Family, Friends) .... Once drafted the organization that drafts him and his agent will get to whisper sweet nothings in his ear.

He'll turn Pro.

 

[Snargitz]

I think he will get caught up in the excitement of the professional side of things and will sign a pro contract.

Zemgus was all set to go to college and all it took was 1 development camp for them to convince him to turn pro in his draft year

 

[SoFFacet]

I disagree with the characterization of what Murray has done so far as "completing the impossible" as though finishing last were deterministically within his power or as though it were disjointed from what Murray has been doing all along. Murray maximized our chances of drafting high, and RNJesus was kind, simple as that.

Steve Stamkos - Pure scorer was the rage in 2008 draft - went to conference final and lost in first round in his two playoff appearances. Also had St. Louis and Lecavalier that year to play with.
John Tavares - Was talked about like McDavid going into 2009 draft - Made playoffs once lost in rd 1
Taylor Hall - He was the next big thing when he was drafted first overall in 2010 = 0 playoffs
RNH - He was the next playmaker a-la Adam Oats to set up Hall in 2011 = 0 playoffs
Nail Yakapov - The best Russian out of the OHL top player in 2012 draft = 0 playoffs
Nathan McKinnon - was a stud his rookie, tough sophomore year 2013 = won 1 round in playoffs
Aaron Ekblad - Should be a finalist for Calder 2014 draft = No playoffs

Don't hold your breath that this will be a quick rebuild Sabres fans.

Three of those are on the same team, one of them is a rookie, and the other three actually have made the playoffs. What was your point?

 

[couture23]

Lets be real....

Right now...all of his influences are probably pushing him to go back to school (Parents, Coaches, Family, Friends) .... Once drafted the organization that drafts him and his agent will get to whisper sweet nothings in his ear.

He'll turn Pro.

"Hey Jack you want this signing bonus...want to be making lots of money this year...?"