MTS' life cycle
- Thread starter Aggie204
- Start date
I think they will start asking for $ in 10-15 years. I'm more curious about the location since they are investing in True North Square. Cityplace?
Samcanadian
Registered User
- Dec 13, 2011
- 2,849
- 183
Haven't even really considered this, to be honest. What are the lifespans of new arenas, generally?
Aavco Cup
"I can make you cry in this room"
- Sep 5, 2013
- 37,630
- 10,440
Saddledome opened in 1983. It needs replacement. Maybe they can jus keep renovating/updating MTS Centre like MSG. It's in a perfect location just like MSG.
I probably wouldn't put it so gruffly, but this is my initial thought too. Portage Place was a colossal failure, and I don't see how you turn that place around.
I wonder if it would be possible to demolish that building without wrecking the parking beneath. I don't think you're knocking that kind of building down with backhoes and other heavy machinery. That would be a huge deal, having parking for an arena right beneath it.
This always made sense to me. The location is too good. And what's a new arena cost? $500M? Where are you going to make that revenue up, compared with a paid-off existing building....even if half the money comes from the taxpayer.
The old arena was unsuitable and probably unfixable (although I seem to recall a proposal to renovate it into a proper bowl for $25M). The biggest problem was that Jets 1.0 didn't own the old arena and didn't have access to any other revenue streams - concessions and parking went to Winnipeg Enterprises and there were no suites, club seats, etc.
They want to replace the Saddledome. It certainly doesn't need replacing.
I went to a game there a month ago. I thought the facility was great - very unique. Other than the crazy high seats we were sitting in on the sides - which prevented us from seeing the scoreboard.
Crazy to think its already been open for 12 years. Ya I agree with trying to find something new in 15-20 years. It really depends what they can/want do with the existing building. It really depends on what is cost effective, building a new stadium or continuous renos. I think they would like to increase the amount of seats in it as well.
I don't think they want to increase the seats. An intimate, loud arena with tight ticket supply is part of their success.
I'm surprised by this point new sporting venues in particular aren't designed to be easily upgradeable or at least maintainable. Pending any major change to how games are marketed (aren't the idea of luxury suites, 'game-side bars', etc relatively new - 1980s/1990s?) it should be possible to make the building work for a long time to come no?
I know its impossible to predict and I'm FAR from having any knowledge in the area of engineering / construction but how much can really change by this point? Mainly hoping for discussion on this because the MTS Centre is in the perfect place right now and I hope (if there are) any 'future-proofing' measures that exist they would have been incorporated from the start.
If what I'm saying is entirely ridiculous from a construction / science stand point - what kind of things kill buildings like this and make it so new buildings are often necessary? And what factors could do that to the MTS Centre in particular?
I know its impossible to predict and I'm FAR from having any knowledge in the area of engineering / construction but how much can really change by this point? Mainly hoping for discussion on this because the MTS Centre is in the perfect place right now and I hope (if there are) any 'future-proofing' measures that exist they would have been incorporated from the start.
If what I'm saying is entirely ridiculous from a construction / science stand point - what kind of things kill buildings like this and make it so new buildings are often necessary? And what factors could do that to the MTS Centre in particular?
- Jun 10, 2014
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Rexall Place was opened in '74. It is/was the second oldest building in the NHL at 42. Only MSG is older and it has had some pretty extensive reno's.
MTSC opened in 2004.
- Jun 10, 2014
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I believe those kinds of questions were considered at the time MTSC was built. The conclusion was that the land available was too small to allow for any serious upgrade in the future. As it is they have crammed a 15k seat arena into a space big enough for about 13.5k. Allowing for future proofing would have added a lot to the cost. I believe history has shown it to be ineffective when tried. It always turns out that the guesses about what would be required in the future are wrong.
Channelcat
Unhinged user
bustamente
Kinda Optimistic
Be happy with this one cause you wont see a new one for a long long time, i'll probably long gone by then so maybe our kids kids will be able to enjoy a new arena and cheer on the Jets
Hank Chinaski
Registered User
Hank Chinaski
Registered User
MTS Centre isn't a palace that will have a longer than normal life cycle (see: United Center, Staples Center), but it's not a cheaply-built dump that needs to be replaced ASAP (see: Miami Arena, the Kingdome).
I expect its life cycle will be closely tied to when arenas like Honda Center, SAP Center, Scottrade Center - in other words, the first arenas built in the 1990s that are already beginning to show their age - are no longer considered suitable NHL venues. No idea when that will happen (10-15 years, maybe?), but expect the calls for a new/heavily renovated arena in Winnipeg to begin shortly after.
I expect its life cycle will be closely tied to when arenas like Honda Center, SAP Center, Scottrade Center - in other words, the first arenas built in the 1990s that are already beginning to show their age - are no longer considered suitable NHL venues. No idea when that will happen (10-15 years, maybe?), but expect the calls for a new/heavily renovated arena in Winnipeg to begin shortly after.
- Mar 10, 2010
- 34,904
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I think this is the best long term plan. I think the actual location of our arena is a bullseye. maybe 50 or 60 years from now our population opens other options but for now I would just keep upgrading.
- Mar 10, 2010
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- 31,383
Hank Chinaski
Registered User
Only problem is that it may reach a point where the necessary upgrades require physical expansion of the building, and the MTSC footprint simply won't support that expansion.
Steal a lane from the streets. Take over the sidewalks, or build over the sidewalks and route people underneath - there's always a way.
- Jun 10, 2014
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Steal a lane from the streets. Take over the sidewalks, or build over the sidewalks and route people underneath - there's always a way.
This was looked at and ruled out when it was built. But I agree. Where there is a will there is a way.
Steal a lane from the streets. Take over the sidewalks, or build over the sidewalks and route people underneath - there's always a way.
The seating bowl wasn't really built to sustain any meaningful expansion. You'd be adding crappy seats on par with the upper deck of the old Winnipeg Arena or Saddledome.
Given the relative cost (construction and disruption) to tunnel Hargrave and/or Donald and how complicated that would be, I doubt this happens before a new arena is built. It would be a pretty crappy investment for maybe a couple thousand square feet.
Hank Chinaski
Registered User
Steal a lane from the streets. Take over the sidewalks, or build over the sidewalks and route people underneath - there's always a way.
There's always a way, but that way may prove less feasible than building a brand new arena. Not saying that's the case here, but it is a consideration.
allan5oh
Has prospect fever
- Oct 15, 2011
- 11,311
- 356
What are the current shortcomings?
- Capacity is low and cannot be increased much if at all
- Fit and finish is rather lacking but this can be improved
- Seats are old but will be changed in the summer
- Only a semi-modern design when it was built (no open concourse due to footprint requirements)
- Doesn't have that "flair" that many modern arenas have
- I've heard the team facilities are rather lacking
- Ice has always been an issue, but has improved
Do any of these justify building a new arena? Is there anything else I'm missing?
Short of major structural issues that cannot be fixed I doubt we will be getting a new arena before 2040ish. Winnipeggers just don't need a fancy one like many to the south. TNSE is going to ride this building as long as they possibly can. It's not fancy, but the "core" product is very good like sightlines, acoustics, logistics, customer flow in out and around, etc.. there's no major shortcomings like the old winnipeg arena had.
- Capacity is low and cannot be increased much if at all
- Fit and finish is rather lacking but this can be improved
- Seats are old but will be changed in the summer
- Only a semi-modern design when it was built (no open concourse due to footprint requirements)
- Doesn't have that "flair" that many modern arenas have
- I've heard the team facilities are rather lacking
- Ice has always been an issue, but has improved
Do any of these justify building a new arena? Is there anything else I'm missing?
Short of major structural issues that cannot be fixed I doubt we will be getting a new arena before 2040ish. Winnipeggers just don't need a fancy one like many to the south. TNSE is going to ride this building as long as they possibly can. It's not fancy, but the "core" product is very good like sightlines, acoustics, logistics, customer flow in out and around, etc.. there's no major shortcomings like the old winnipeg arena had.
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