Recalled/Assigned: [MTL --> LAV] David Schlemko Assigned to Laval Rocket (08/01/2019)

[BaseballCoach]

Think he felt some pressure to honour Pleks after completely botching the handling of the General the year before. Only problem is, if he was going to make special considerations for anyone so they could get their 1000th game and retire a Hab it should have been Markov, I say that with no disrespect to Pleks, but Markov was a much more valuable Hab, both in performance and leadership/mentoring. Man, the more I think of it, the more I can't stand Marc Bergevin, makes my blood boil.

DeLaRose was lost AFTER Plek's 1000th game, and in fact, Plekanec never played another game for us after the waiving of DLR.

We were REBUILDING and kept Plekanec for exactly two more weeks (on the DL) and lost a home-grown player for nothing. That's an IdiotGM.

Most fans are pretty sure we would not lose Agostino, Chaput, Peca or Hudon if we waived them, but the IdiotGM waived two guys we DID lose.

 

[Mario le Magnifique]

So why not keep all of them until the end of the season, people are claiming a reset/retool type of year so why not just keep these guys, hell even a guy like Daniel Carr, are these guys so terrible that Chaput, D'agostino and DLO are miles ahead of them, the answer is no. The reason might very well have to do with Bergevins fixation on the underdog, the guy that can come here and become Paul Byron because it worked once, let's keep doing it, plain and simple.

But... Why not try something ? As you said, they're not better or worse. They're all expandables, DLR, Chaput, name it. Why blame the GM for trying different players and perhaps find a late bloomer ? I don't think Chaput is better than DLR, but I don't think DLR is better than Chaput either. Both are pretty MEH. I think Peca and Kotkaniemi are both better than DLR though, and ultimately, you want those guys with MTL and that made DLR expandable. Sure Peca has been benched a lot, and they play Chaput a bit too much for my taste but Chaput has the work ethic, effort and faceoff dot going for him and it makes the fourth line a reliable one. Thank God, long gone are the days of Dwight Kings and Smith-Pellys sulking on our 4th line without impunity. Sure DSP has improved with WSH, but with us he sucked. I hated it when vets were stapled on our fourth line, riding their past reputation. With young, finge NHL players, you put pressure on them and see if the cream comes out on top.

 

[OldCraig71]

But... Why not try something ? As you said, they're not better or worse. They're all expandables, DLR, Chaput, name it. Why blame the GM for trying different players and perhaps find a late bloomer ? I don't think Chaput is better than DLR, but I don't think DLR is better than Chaput either. Both are pretty MEH. I think Peca and Kotkaniemi are both better than DLR though, and ultimately, you want those guys with MTL and that made DLR expandable. Sure Peca has been benched a lot, and they play Chaput a bit too much for my taste but Chaput has the work ethic, effort and faceoff dot going for him and it makes the fourth line a reliable one. Thank God, long gone are the days of Dwight Kings and Smith-Pellys sulking on our 4th line without impunity. Sure DSP has improved with WSH, but with us he sucked. I hated it when vets were stapled on our fourth line, riding their past reputation. With young, finge NHL players, you put pressure on them and see if the cream comes out on top.

Like Paul Byron right?

 

[Prairie Habs]

DeLaRose was lost AFTER Plek's 1000th game, and in fact, Plekanec never played another game for us after the waiving of DLR.

We were REBUILDING and kept Plekanec for exactly two more weeks (on the DL) and lost a home-grown player for nothing. That's an IdiotGM.

Most fans are pretty sure we would not lose Agostino, Chaput, Peca or Hudon if we waived them, but the IdiotGM waived two guys we DID lose.

Which one are you more bitter about? The career fourth liner or the one who just cleared waivers?

 

[1909]

Keeping Plekky and waiving DLR was super bad assets management.

 

[Harry Kakalovich]

DeLaRose was lost AFTER Plek's 1000th game, and in fact, Plekanec never played another game for us after the waiving of DLR.

We were REBUILDING and kept Plekanec for exactly two more weeks (on the DL) and lost a home-grown player for nothing. That's an IdiotGM.

Most fans are pretty sure we would not lose Agostino, Chaput, Peca or Hudon if we waived them, but the IdiotGM waived two guys we DID lose.

Ah we all have our favorites! It's hard when we lose those ones so I understand the emotions. DLR just played. He looks ok with the Wings but nothing too special. Still it's too bad - I kind of liked him too.

Thankfully the Habs still have Schlemko in Laval, just in case.

 

[Harry Kakalovich]

Keeping Plekky and waiving DLR was super bad assets management.

Trading Roy and Keane for Thibeault Kovalenko and Rucinsky was super bad asset management. Waiving DLR was closer to the cost of doing business. Kind of like tipping in a restaurant, I'd prefer not to but it's the way things work.

 

[Whitesnake]

But every team makes moves to fill out the bottom of their roster.

Yes. But the great teams were great before those guys arrived. While our guys arrived with the idea of playing key roles. When Hemsky came in, he was in line to play in our top 6. When Reilly was acquired, he had a shot at playing on the top 2. Yes, others are just there to fill a 4th line like everybody needs. But in filling our 3rd and 4th line, that management seems to always believed that by some miracles, those fillers we hired might actually do the job on better lines. And it rarely works. You can safely say that it worked somehow with Byron....and now Bergevin thinks he is the new genius that will transform everybody in Byron and frankly, again, look at all the guys he got.....Byron is an exception. Kulak and Reilly are fine....but strangely will no longer needed when Fleury and Brook comes up. Those steals will suddenly not be needed at all. And while we would have improved, it will not be because we will have an all-star D.

 

[Harry Kakalovich]

Yes. But the great teams were great before those guys arrived. While our guys arrived with the idea of playing key roles. When Hemsky came in, he was in line to play in our top 6. When Reilly was acquired, he had a shot at playing on the top 2. Yes, others are just there to fill a 4th line like everybody needs. But in filling our 3rd and 4th line, that management seems to always believed that by some miracles, those fillers we hired might actually do the job on better lines. And it rarely works. You can safely say that it worked somehow with Byron....and now Bergevin thinks he is the new genius that will transform everybody in Byron and frankly, again, look at all the guys he got.....Byron is an exception. Kulak and Reilly are fine....but strangely will no longer needed when Fleury and Brook comes up. Those steals will suddenly not be needed at all. And while we would have improved, it will not be because we will have an all-star D.

In today's NHL with the salary cap you pretty much have to have some bargains on your team in order to compete at the highest levels. Every GM does it because if you go and fill up your team with established stars you will run out of cap space.

 

[SirClintonPortis]

Grinders that rise up through the farm system are cheaper than the ones picked up elsewhere. We used to have a steady stream of them. Now it's a trickle.

 

[Harry Kakalovich]

Grinders that rise up through the farm system are cheaper than the ones picked up elsewhere. We used to have a steady stream of them. Now it's a trickle.

Both ways work - both ways are needed.

 

[tazsub3]

DeLaRose was lost AFTER Plek's 1000th game, and in fact, Plekanec never played another game for us after the waiving of DLR.

We were REBUILDING and kept Plekanec for exactly two more weeks (on the DL) and lost a home-grown player for nothing. That's an IdiotGM.

Most fans are pretty sure we would not lose Agostino, Chaput, Peca or Hudon if we waived them, but the IdiotGM waived two guys we DID lose.

You seriously saying we lost two players ? You should have stoped at dlr, as the second one if you failed to notice, was waived again and he could have been in the Ahli, but not us nor anyone else wanted him

 

[BehindTheTimes]

Which one are you more bitter about? The career fourth liner or the one who just cleared waivers?

Although losing DLR doesn't seem like that big of a deal. We know losing Plekanec's wouldn't hurt. There was no good reason for keeping Plek's and losing DLR for nothing, even if you don't like DLR. It's not about being bitter, it's about not liking the manager of the habs being this short-sighted. Was terribly dumb, I had my timelines mixed up, I thought Pleks was yet to play his 1000th, in this case, if he was showing some respect for Plek's I could give him a little bit of wiggle room and not care, but Plek's already played his 1000th game. In the end, it probably won't matter this time, but eventually moves like this will bite us.

 

[BaseballCoach]

But... Why not try something ? As you said, they're not better or worse. They're all expandables, DLR, Chaput, name it. Why blame the GM for trying different players and perhaps find a late bloomer ? I don't think Chaput is better than DLR, but I don't think DLR is better than Chaput either. Both are pretty MEH. I think Peca and Kotkaniemi are both better than DLR though, and ultimately, you want those guys with MTL and that made DLR expandable. Sure Peca has been benched a lot, and they play Chaput a bit too much for my taste but Chaput has the work ethic, effort and faceoff dot going for him and it makes the fourth line a reliable one. Thank God, long gone are the days of Dwight Kings and Smith-Pellys sulking on our 4th line without impunity. Sure DSP has improved with WSH, but with us he sucked. I hated it when vets were stapled on our fourth line, riding their past reputation. With young, finge NHL players, you put pressure on them and see if the cream comes out on top.

I hear you but he truly is an idiot, even if he thought like you do. No one trying out young players would keep Plekanec AFTER he played his thousandth game. In fact, neither did he!

Michael Chaput is three years older than DeLaRose, and he was safely in the minors having already cleared waivers, able to come and help if needed due to many injuries. If you are in a retooling year, you should give DLR a chance to show what he can do at only 23.

More importantly, if you DON'T think he has what it takes, you don't give the guy a 2-year contract in the summer and publicly praise how well he played after the deadline, and then not give him a single regular season game to show what he could do.

And you don't make a blunder and double the contract you intended to give Peca and pretend it was intentional. NO GM in the league has EVER given a two-year contract to a Group VI free agent at PRECISELY double the league minimum, and no amount of lying about it will convince me this was legit.

Mistakes happen, like confusing Jeff Finger with Jon-Michael Liles and signing the wrong player, or not realizing that Jaro Spacek was over 35 when he was signed to a 3 year deal. Better to be a man and admit them than lie about it.

Furthermore, Peca is weak and easily knocked off the puck, and not very strong in his own zone. This is why Tampa who tried to trade him for over a year found not one taker.

You want to take a chance on someone new for your fourth line maybe blooming? You could have had 23 year old Anthony Duclair for league minimum, and at least had a guy for the next three years before reaching UFA age who, while not as consistent as most top-6ers, can score some goals, and could play on a middle six line for a few shifts when necessary. Anthony has just one goal less than all five of our 4th liners combined.

Bergevin is still an idiot even if some of his moves worked out, after dodging bullets that should have killed him, and the team (eg Lucic, Paul Stastny).

 

[BaseballCoach]

You seriously saying we lost two players ? You should have stoped at dlr, as the second one if you failed to notice, was waived again and he could have been in the Ahli, but not us nor anyone else wanted him

And we could have taken him back and put him in the AHL for nothing, which was in fact what we wanted a month earlier. The GM has no consistent vision or plan, just reacts on one-offs again and again.

 

[BaseballCoach]

Although losing DLR doesn't seem like that big of a deal. We know losing Plekanec's wouldn't hurt. There was no good reason for keeping Plek's and losing DLR for nothing, even if you don't like DLR. It's not about being bitter, it's about not liking the manager of the habs being this short-sighted. Was terribly dumb, I had my timelines mixed up, I thought Pleks was yet to play his 1000th, in this case, if he was showing some respect for Plek's I could give him a little bit of wiggle room and not care, but Plek's already played his 1000th game. In the end, it probably won't matter this time, but eventually moves like this will bite us.

Exactly. The guy is terrible at asset management. This does not augur well when you are trying to build an improved team, in competition with 30 other GMs.

 

[Harry Kakalovich]

And we could have taken him back and put him in the AHL for nothing, which was in fact what we wanted a month earlier. The GM has no consistent vision or plan, just reacts on one-offs again and again.

No he had stayed over a month in LA so the Habs would have had to keep him in the NHL. So in that you are wrong. But you don't lack a consistent vision : you are consistently slagging MB despite ample evidence arguing against your views.

 

[Harry Kakalovich]

Luckily for all of you pining for DLR the Habs have kept Schlemko, who really is probably a better player at a tougher position than DLR - so you can exhale a deep sigh of relief and feel happy.

Interestingly, it does not seem like DLR is playing center. Or it didn't seem like it last night.

 

[Whitesnake]

In today's NHL with the salary cap you pretty much have to have some bargains on your team in order to compete at the highest levels. Every GM does it because if you go and fill up your team with established stars you will run out of cap space.

There is a difference between finding established stars and guys you will end up waiving.....

 

[Capitano]

Yes. But the great teams were great before those guys arrived. While our guys arrived with the idea of playing key roles. When Hemsky came in, he was in line to play in our top 6. When Reilly was acquired, he had a shot at playing on the top 2. Yes, others are just there to fill a 4th line like everybody needs. But in filling our 3rd and 4th line, that management seems to always believed that by some miracles, those fillers we hired might actually do the job on better lines. And it rarely works. You can safely say that it worked somehow with Byron....and now Bergevin thinks he is the new genius that will transform everybody in Byron and frankly, again, look at all the guys he got.....Byron is an exception. Kulak and Reilly are fine....but strangely will no longer needed when Fleury and Brook comes up. Those steals will suddenly not be needed at all. And while we would have improved, it will not be because we will have an all-star D.

Well said, but on a good team a guy like Paul Byron is a 3rd liner at best so he is basically the best of what we've got - which isn't saying very much!

 

[BaseballCoach]

No he had stayed over a month in LA so the Habs would have had to keep him in the NHL. So in that you are wrong. But you don't lack a consistent vision : you are consistently slagging MB despite ample evidence arguing against your views.

I would need to check on this, and if I was wrong, I have no problem owning up to it.

Do you have a reference?

 

[ottawa]

How? We got nothing for Plekanec, who never played another game after being kept over DeLaRose. We got Olofsson by trading Bitten.

Check your facts. It's not hard, go on hockeydb or something next time.

We got Jacob Olofsson for Plekanec, we got Gustav Olofsson for Will Bitten. De La Rose was waived, he would not return a 2nd rd pick/JACOB Olofsson (read: Jacob, not Gustav)

 

[Harry Kakalovich]

I would need to check on this, and if I was wrong, I have no problem owning up to it.

Do you have a reference?

If you look on the waivers thread on the trade rumors board it was mentioned there and in the thread about Scherbak being claimed by LA on the same board.

He was claimed Dec. 2nd and waived Jan. 6th. So LA basically waited to waive him so that they had kept him over 30 days. I think the criteria is 10 games or 30 days - after that the original team cannot reclaim the player and send him to the AHL without putting him on waivers.

 

[Harry Kakalovich]

There is a difference between finding established stars and guys you will end up waiving.....

Obviously but that is not the important fact to ascertain here.

It is important to note the correlation between risk and reward. When hunting bargains, not all will be successful. It is much riskier than finding established stars because the bargains exist because there is a discrepancy between perceived value and actual value. But there is also a greater reward in terms of salary cap flexibility and the cost of acquiring said player.

Therefore gms take risks by acquiring uncertain assets hoping that they will become bargains knowing that there is a greater risk that they will fail. Schlemko Reilly Kulak G. Olofsson are all examples of such risks. It is a given that some will fail, but that does not mean the gm is doing a poor job. He is doing a good job because he is taking risks to acquire a valuable bargain asset.

Now obviously there is still room for discussion on whether or not a particular risk is worth taking, but I would say all of the above were worth the risk even though at this point in regards to Schlemko he has not worked out up to now and may eventually be traded or otherwise moved.

 

[Harry Kakalovich]

Check your facts. It's not hard, go on hockeydb or something next time.

We got Jacob Olofsson for Plekanec, we got Gustav Olofsson for Will Bitten. De La Rose was waived, he would not return a 2nd rd pick/JACOB Olofsson (read: Jacob, not Gustav)

He's talking about signing Pleks this season. Everyone was happy with trading him last season.