News Article: MSG gets 10 year permit

[Whiplash27]

"World's most famous arena"... not quite. I see the marketing ploy is working though.

What other sports arena would you say is more famous than MSG? Stadium =/= arena.

Also agreed on the Subways. Everywhere else I've been has a nicer subway system than NYC.

 

[GAGLine]

From 2008:

http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/...ion-Plans-Sticks-To-Decision-Not-To-Move.aspx

Arthur Staple notes MSG last week announced it was "pulling out of a proposed multi-billion-dollar plan to build a new arena across the street at the Farley Post Office, where a new train station would replace Penn Station and be dubbed Moynihan Station." That decision "brought an outcry from city and state officials who believe a new [MSG] is the key to an economic development project on the west side of Manhattan."

In N.Y., Brian Kates writes the decision "reflects Cablevision's apparent frustration with the state's inability to obtain sufficient funding for Moynihan Station, which is at least $1.2 short of its projected $3 cost." It was "unclear Thursday whether the state would revert to earlier" Moynihan Station plans that did not include MSG (N.Y. DAILY NEWS, 4/4). Ratner: "We can accomplish everything anybody could want in a new arena by renovating this arena" (N.Y. POST, 4/4)

Recent article:

http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2...-will-not-be-uprooted-from-penn-station/?_r=0

Madison Square Garden wants everyone to know: it isn’t going anywhere.

“It is incongruous to think that M.S.G. would be considering moving,†the Madison Square Garden Company said in a statement last month, especially as a three-year renovation, on which the company says it has spent $1 billion, is expected to be completed this fall. In other words, the announcement of the renovation in 2008 should have signaled that the Garden intended to stay put.

They say there is no other way — besides lopping off the arena — to substantively improve Penn Station’s main waiting concourse, which is the heart of the experience for both long-distance travelers and short-haul commuters. Amtrak and others have tried over the years, but the improvements were largely cosmetic.

Obviously the city is going to push for a move. MSG may eventually agree, but I wouldn't be surprised if part of the deal involves money to cover some of MSG's losses from the renovations. They aren't spending 1 billion for only 10 years of an upgraded arena.

 

[twistedwrister]

Can someone with knowledge of the situation tell me, what are the odds that they actually have to move? Building a new MSG would take a lot of time and money to do, the latter of which Dolan wouldn't be paying for (I think?), meaning it'd come out of the taxpayers' wallets and be subsidized by the city of New York.

Also, as many have stated, they just made massive renovations that cost hundreds of millions of dollars.

I don't see how they can be forced out, I can't see this actually happening in ten years.

I'm sure MSG will sue the city. They've said that they meet the qualifications for a permit extension, but the city just doesn't want them there anymore. I'm not a lawyer, but I believe MSG owns the land as well as the rights above it so I'm not sure they city is totally within their rights to tell MSG that they have to move their building. If they want to take over the property, I think they have to use eminent domain, which is different from limiting the term of their land-use permit. Eminent domain would entitle MSG to "fair market value" for their property, which I would imagine would be several billion dollars when you take into account all the money they just spent on the renovations plus the value of 2 city blocks in the middle of midtown.

 

[Kakko]

And I will gladly get into the debate that Penn Station doesn't need more space.
The problems with it are how badly it's run. Trains aren't running late because it's crowded.
Grand Central Station has space, but it's even worse than Penn Station for getting around.

 

[and 99 others]

And I will gladly get into the debate that Penn Station doesn't need more space.
The problems with it are how badly it's run. Trains aren't running late because it's crowded.
Grand Central Station has space, but it's even worse than Penn Station for getting around.

It's hard to get around in Grand Central?

 

[Crease]

What other sports arena would you say is more famous than MSG? Stadium =/= arena.

Semantics. The only difference between an arena and a stadium is the origin of the word. One is Greek. The other is Latin. They mean the same thing.

Besides, who officially designated MSG an "arena"? Why not a "garden", "palace" or "stadium"? The point is, I can't designate the shed in my parent's backyard a "mini-house", then proclaim it the world's most famous mini-house.

 

[Kakko]

It's hard to get around in Grand Central?

It's not cramped, but that place is confusing as hell.

And it may be more open than Penn Station, but the train service and timeliness is just as bad

 

[beLIever]

Islanders fan coming in peace just to say this is crazy. I'm in Penn all the time, and Penn Station can stay underground or move into the old behemoth of the Farley Post Office.

 

[Boruto]

Don't they know who Dolan is?

I wonder who voted for Dolan

 

[GordonGecko]

Madison Square Garden Is Told to Move
By CHARLES V. BAGLI, NEW YORK TIMES
Published: July 25, 2013

Madison Square Garden, home to the Knicks, the Rangers, the Ice Capades, the circus and the “Fight of the Century†between Muhammad Ali and Joe Frazier in 1971, received an eviction notice of sorts on Wednesday. The New York City Council notified the arena that it has 10 years to vacate its 45-year-old premises and find a new home, the Garden’s fifth since it opened in 1879.

By a vote of 47 to 1, the Council voted to extend the Garden’s special operating permit for merely a decade — not in perpetuity, as the owners of the Garden had requested, or 15 years, as the Bloomberg administration had intended. Ten years should be enough time, officials said, for the Garden to find a new location and for the city to devise plans for an expanded Pennsylvania Station, which currently sits below the Garden, and the redevelopment of the surrounding neighborhood.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/25/nyregion/madison-square-garden-is-told-to-move.html

 

[Crease]

Nice soundbyte from the mayoral candidate. Does Ms. Quinn also want to forewarn the taxpayers how much money it'll cost them to evict MSG? Of course not. She won't even be around when it comes time for the other shoe to drop.

 

[we want cup]

What other sports arena would you say is more famous than MSG? Stadium =/= arena.

Also agreed on the Subways. Everywhere else I've been has a nicer subway system than NYC.

Well it is the busiest transit system in the States (and one of the busiest in the world), not to mention it runs 24/7/365, which only a handful of systems do. It's one of the oldest systems in the world, and I believe it also has the most stops.

I'm willing to cut it some slack. I don't really care what it looks like, as long as it gets me where I need to be.

 

[Inferno]

I'd say the Colosseum is the worlds most famous arena...but MSG is close

 

[GordonGecko]

I'd say the Colosseum is the worlds most famous arena...but MSG is close

This is true!

BTW, MSG is only the so called most famous arena because it has always been the largest seating venue in a famous place with zero large open spaces (Manhattan). If a bigger, better place were built next to Grand Central, pretty soon that would be the "most famous" arena

 

[Whiplash27]

A stadium is open and arena is closed. The dictionary agrees

a·re·na (-rn)
n.
1.
a. An enclosed area for the presentation of sports events and spectacles.

sta·di·um (std-m)
n. pl. sta·di·ums or sta·di·a (-d-)
1. A large, usually open structure for sports events with tiered seating for spectators.

 

[Crease]

"Usually open". So all arenas are stadiums? I'm sorry, by the way. Studying for the LSAT did this to me.

Anyway, GG brings up the real point. There's nothing majestic or magical about MSG worth preserving. The entire place has been gutted and renovated. And no one is standing outside revering the exterior panels. This is not Fenway Park or Wrigley Field we're talking about. If a new MSG opens up, it'll just be the next version of the "world's most famous arena". It's a hollow title and it doesn't preclude the possibility of being replaced.

 

[Whiplash27]

"Usually open". So all arenas are stadiums?

Some stadiums have retractable roofs or are domes. That's why they're usually open. Stadiums generally hold a much higher capacity than arenas. Arenas typically seat around 20 thousand people whereas stadiums tend to hold at least 40K people and higher. There are some closed stadiums that are smaller, but in general that's how it is.

 

[Crease]

Some stadiums have retractable roofs or are domes. That's why they're usually open. Stadiums generally hold a much higher capacity than arenas. Arenas typically seat around 20 thousand people whereas stadiums tend to hold at least 40K people and higher. There are some closed stadiums that are smaller, but in general that's how it is.

You win. MSG is the world's most famous permanently-indoor semi-large facility used for the purpose of showing hockey, basketball, and sometimes boxing and the circus. There's also been a rodeo.

 

[Whiplash27]

You win. MSG is the world's most famous permanently-indoor semi-large facility used for the purpose of showing hockey, basketball, and sometimes boxing and the circus. There's also been a rodeo.

 

[JohnC]

I always thought the "most famous arena" title was in reference to the events that took place in the building not because of it's architecture

 

[GordonGecko]

A stadium is open and arena is closed. The dictionary agrees

a·re·na (-rn)
n.
1.
a. An enclosed area for the presentation of sports events and spectacles.

sta·di·um (std-m)
n. pl. sta·di·ums or sta·di·a (-d-)
1. A large, usually open structure for sports events with tiered seating for spectators.

Enclosed doesn't mean a roof, it means encircled by seats

 

[Kris Chreider]

I always thought the "most famous arena" title was in reference to the events that took place in the building not because of it's architecture

See:

OT: MSG is one of the ugliest buildings I've ever seen. Sad, but true. It's an architect's nightmare. I wish we could do something about that, too. Maybe give us a new arena?

I'm kind of jealous when NBCS would show the Verizon Center, just because it puts MSG to shame aesthetics-wise. Then again, I'm sure Caps fans felt the same way when they showed our skyline.

 

[Kris Chreider]

Enclosed doesn't mean a roof, it means encircled by seats

My apartment is enclosed. Doesn't mean it's encircled by seats.

 

[Ian]

The city wouldn't fully finance a move to Moynihan, so he stuck up his nose and renovated MSG, even though the lease was close to the end.

The city will likely never waste its time fighting a legal battle to claim the land away from Dolan, and will never finance a move either, especially after the disaster around yankee stadium.

There's really nothing to this besides a talking point for the election to prove a candidate is pro-transportation and pro-middle class. Typical bureaucracy.

Should have never let Dolan's lobbying goons shut down the west side stadium.

 

[NYRKindms]

you guys saying how can they move it do realize this is the 4th version of MSG correct ?