Mr. Bergevin.... I Salute You

[smirob]

I think he's done an excellent job of adding diamond in the rough players, Weise, potentially Byron etc.

I still think we are 1 top 6 fwd away from being a true SC contender. An actual top 6 player.

Semin was a gamble, may still pan out but even if he doesn't it was worth the gamble.

We have the pieces to make a move, without destroying our prospect pool. I think now is the time we need a bonafide top 6 player.

 

[Sorinth]

yes....and somehow we still have over 3M of cap space left with a full roster.

Well had we been willing to spend some of that 3m and acquire a more sure thing top-6 forward like J. Williams who has 9 points in 11 games instead of gambling on Semin/Kassian then we would be better off.

It's easy to not have deadweight when you never commit long term. But the downside is that you never properly address the problem either which is why 4 years on we still have a big hole on RW.

 

[Sorinth]

I think he's done an excellent job of adding diamond in the rough players, Weise, potentially Byron etc.

I still think we are 1 top 6 fwd away from being a true SC contender. An actual top 6 player.

Semin was a gamble, may still pan out but even if he doesn't it was worth the gamble.

We have the pieces to make a move, without destroying our prospect pool. I think now is the time we need a bonafide top 6 player.

What the hell does a true SC contender mean? If being a top team last year and being the best team this year doesn't make you a SC contender then what the **** does.

 

[smirob]

What the hell does a true SC contender mean? If being a top team last year and being the best team this year doesn't make you a SC contender then what the **** does.

Why are you angry?

You think last years team had a real chance of beating Chicago???? Really?

Do you think our current top 6 compares to any of the big guns in the West?

We went to the 2nd round last year remember?

Wait, you're right, keep the exact line-up as is. Flynn will carry our 2nd line, or DSP, or Semin.
What I said is we need a true top 6 player to be a contender, and somehow you find issue with this???

 

[Kudo Shinichi]

Well had we been willing to spend some of that 3m and acquire a more sure thing top-6 forward like J. Williams who has 9 points in 11 games instead of gambling on Semin/Kassian then we would be better off.

It's easy to not have deadweight when you never commit long term. But the downside is that you never properly address the problem either which is why 4 years on we still have a big hole on RW.

You do realise Bergevin offered more money than the caps for William. But no lets blame Bergevin because William prefered to go for another team

 

[Bryson]

What the hell does a true SC contender mean? If being a top team last year and being the best team this year doesn't make you a SC contender then what the **** does.

Sorinth, you just mentioned in your previous post how we are missing a top six fwd. While no team is perfect, a SC contender should not have such a huge glaring hole in it's top six.

As for last year, whether it's a roster issue or a coaching problem, we went into the playoffs with one of the worst offense and PP in the league. We also had to get through both Tampa and Ottawa whom we finished 0-5 and 1-3 during the regular season so while many may have called us SC contenders it sure didn't feel like it. In order to win the SC a team needs to be firing on all cylinders at once which is why it's more important to end the season strong than have a good beginning.

You do realise Bergevin offered more money than the caps for William. But no lets blame Bergevin because William prefered to go for another team

How much did BargainBin offer Williams? Source? And what does that tell you about our GMs ability to attract UFA when they don't want to play here EVEN when they are offered more money and can't wait to get out of here when they get traded here. Ryder, Vanek etc.. That is a real problem my friend.

 

[jwrocks1]

Well had we been willing to spend some of that 3m and acquire a more sure thing top-6 forward like J. Williams who has 9 points in 11 games instead of gambling on Semin/Kassian then we would be better off.

It's easy to not have deadweight when you never commit long term. But the downside is that you never properly address the problem either which is why 4 years on we still have a big hole on RW.

well....MB did offer more money but Williams decided to sign in Washington instead. So, it's easy to say he shoulda done something, but easy to ignore he tried. And only tried Semin after Williams said no. And 4 years ago we had several holes.

 

[jwrocks1]

How much did BargainBin offer Williams? Source? And what does that tell you about our GMs ability to attract UFA when they don't want to play here EVEN when they are offered more money and can't wait to get out of here when they get traded here. Ryder, Vanek etc.. That is a real problem my friend.

yeah, why would anyone want to go play with Ovechkin, Backstrom and Kuznetsov?

 

[Adriatic]

How much did BargainBin offer Williams? Source? And what does that tell you about our GMs ability to attract UFA when they don't want to play here EVEN when they are offered more money and can't wait to get out of here when they get traded here. Ryder, Vanek etc.. That is a real problem my friend.

And what does it say about a gm when he's able to convince a player like Petry about to become unrestricted to forgo his free agency and sign here, knowing full well he could get more money on the market. Are you for real with Ryder and Vanek??

 

[Bryson]

yeah, why would anyone want to go play with Ovechkin, Backstrom and Kuznetsov?

Exactly especially when the alternative is to play with Desharnais or our 3rd overall pick who's playing like a 3rd liner playing with 4th liners. Who wouldn't want to sign up for that? DD is the best center in the league. How can people not see that? Newsflash. Skilled players want to play with other skilled players. Not grinders. Who is our star? Who will attract other star players to come sign here? We are lucky that guys like PK reached out to Petry in order to stay here or chances are he's gone.

Chicago added Hossa. While we don't have the cap to add a Hossa, JT was right around the right price point. Que sera, sera.

 

[Kriss E]

You do realise Bergevin offered more money than the caps for William. But no lets blame Bergevin because William prefered to go for another team

How much more money?..All that matters is Williams didn't sign here.
It was the same tune for Gainey. Hey, he offered deals to this awesome player and that great player, but they chose another city, not his fault. Well yes it is.
This is not year one or two. He's had 4 years to bring someone in, Williams is just a representation of the type of player we needed.

 

[Sorinth]

well....MB did offer more money but Williams decided to sign in Washington instead. So, it's easy to say he shoulda done something, but easy to ignore he tried. And only tried Semin after Williams said no. And 4 years ago we had several holes.

You do realise Bergevin offered more money than the caps for William. But no lets blame Bergevin because William prefered to go for another team

Well doesn't that mean he didn't do a good enough job selling him on the chances of winning a cup? And really it's not about one players, it's been 4 years where we've tried one player after another and couldn't find a fit.

Like I said it's great that he hasn't burdened us with a misguided contract, but the consequence is every year we are scrapping the scrap heap hoping for a player in decline to rebound. The likelihood of it working out is not very high.

Why are you angry?

You think last years team had a real chance of beating Chicago???? Really?

Do you think our current top 6 compares to any of the big guns in the West?

We went to the 2nd round last year remember?

Wait, you're right, keep the exact line-up as is. Flynn will carry our 2nd line, or DSP, or Semin.
What I said is we need a true top 6 player to be a contender, and somehow you find issue with this???

So the only thing that matters for being a contender is top-6? That's just dumb.

So our top-6 isn't the best, our top-3 D is better than pretty much any other team East or West, and we have the best goalie and arguably best player in the world in nets. Not too mention our bottom-6 has probably scored more goals then any other teams bottom six which is why we lead the league in GFs. So yeah we might have a hole in the top-6, but it doesn't mean we aren't contenders. Every team has holes.

Sorinth, you just mentioned in your previous post how we are missing a top six fwd. While no team is perfect, a SC contender should not have such a huge glaring hole in it's top six.

As for last year, whether it's a roster issue or a coaching problem, we went into the playoffs with one of the worst offense and PP in the league. We also had to get through both Tampa and Ottawa whom we finished 0-5 and 1-3 during the regular season so while many may have called us SC contenders it sure didn't feel like it. In order to win the SC a team needs to be firing on all cylinders at once which is why it's more important to end the season strong than have a good beginning.

Every contender has holes, it's fairly common even for contenders to be lacking a top-6 player, or missing a top-4 defenceman or having a question mark in nets. Go ahead and list who you consider contenders and we'll see equally glaring holes in their lineup.

And so far missing out on a top-6 player hasn't prevented us from being one of the top offensive teams in the league. So I wouldn't call it a glaring hole, if Fleischman was in our top-6 and Semin on the third line and everyone had the same number of points would we even be saying that we lacked a top-6 winger?

 

[jwrocks1]

Well doesn't that mean he didn't do a good enough job selling him on the chances of winning a cup? And really it's not about one players, it's been 4 years where we've tried one player after another and couldn't find a fit.

Like I said it's great that he hasn't burdened us with a misguided contract, but the consequence is every year we are scrapping the scrap heap hoping for a player in decline to rebound. The likelihood of it working out is not very high.

So the rumors are he offers up a similar (but slightly higher due to taxes) contract to Williams, but because he chose to play with stars like OV and to live closer to where his wife is from and wants to live so he didn't do a good enough job? In those 4 years what other holes has he had to deal with? Look, MB has a major issue to deal with in the scoring depth of our top 9 but he has dealt with other issues of depth and cap management. Right now, he has the pieces in place and the cap space to get that "missing piece" . Semin isn't really panning out right now, but for a contract that has zero impact on the team, and he may still turn it around (and be a 15G guy??...3rd liner??). but let's be honest, this team is better now than 4 seasons ago. Our top players have developped well, and are responding to being allowed to play a more open style. Is the coaching an issue? I couldn't argue that one, but on the players we have and the cap management, MB has done a very good job.

Now, MB needs to swing a deal for a top 6 RW, but, I am not going to expect it to happen before Feb.....or for anything less than 3 solid pieces going back the other way.

 

[smirob]

So the only thing that matters for being a contender is top-6? That's just dumb.

So our top-6 isn't the best, our top-3 D is better than pretty much any other team East or West, and we have the best goalie and arguably best player in the world in nets. Not too mention our bottom-6 has probably scored more goals then any other teams bottom six which is why we lead the league in GFs. So yeah we might have a hole in the top-6, but it doesn't mean we aren't contenders. Every team has holes.

Being a contender means you CONTEND with the top teams in the league. You brought up last season (stated we were contenders) when we had a horrible GF.....Now your argument is we have a great GF this season so are a contender.

We don't have a great top 6, it's clear.....We will need one to be a TRUE CONTENDER....not just get through a round or two come playoff time.

Our bottom 6 is scoring, if you think the rate they are scoring is sustainable, your wrong. When they slow down, I will come back and ask you if you think our top 6 needs help.

 

[Lshap]

Being a contender means you CONTEND with the top teams in the league. You brought up last season (stated we were contenders) when we had a horrible GF.....Now your argument is we have a great GF this season so are a contender.

We don't have a great top 6, it's clear.....We will need one to be a TRUE CONTENDER....not just get through a round or two come playoff time.

Our bottom 6 is scoring, if you think the rate they are scoring is sustainable, your wrong. When they slow down, I will come back and ask you if you think our top 6 needs help.

Obviously DD's line won't keep scoring like a top-six. But what's important is the overall depth has improved. Our top-six is currently slumping, but the team's been doing fine thanks to the 3rd line. Pacioretty, Pleks, Eller and Galchenyuk will get hot sooner or later, Mitchell's line will continue to contribute -- the net effect is an increase in scoring from all lines, so that if one line cools down, the other(s) can compensate.

We're 14 games in, and it's looking like we have an effective workaround to not having a Toews/Kane, Perry/Getzlaf combo. And as we see with Anaheim, having these elite guys isn't a guarantee of success.

 

[smirob]

Obviously DD's line won't keep scoring like a top-six. But what's important is the overall depth has improved. Our top-six is currently slumping, but the team's been doing fine thanks to the 3rd line. Pacioretty, Pleks, Eller and Galchenyuk will get hot sooner or later, Mitchell's line will continue to contribute -- the net effect is an increase in scoring from all lines, so that if one line cools down, the other(s) can compensate.

We're 14 games in, and it's looking like we have an effective workaround to not having a Toews/Kane, Perry/Getzlaf combo. And as we see with Anaheim, having these elite guys isn't a guarantee of success.

I'm not claiming we need those elite players, but I won't ignore the need for a top 6 winger.

DSP/Flynn are not.

 

[jwrocks1]

I'm not claiming we need those elite players, but I won't ignore the need for a top 6 winger.

DSP/Flynn are not.

and this is that "last piece" MB needs to find

 

[Sorinth]

So the rumors are he offers up a similar (but slightly higher due to taxes) contract to Williams, but because he chose to play with stars like OV and to live closer to where his wife is from and wants to live so he didn't do a good enough job? In those 4 years what other holes has he had to deal with?

Well in terms of impact players (Top-6 F, Top-4 D) he's added 1 in 4 years, Petry. So the number of holes he's dealt with aren't very numerous.

Look, MB has a major issue to deal with in the scoring depth of our top 9 but he has dealt with other issues of depth and cap management. Right now, he has the pieces in place and the cap space to get that "missing piece" . Semin isn't really panning out right now, but for a contract that has zero impact on the team, and he may still turn it around (and be a 15G guy??...3rd liner??). but let's be honest, this team is better now than 4 seasons ago. Our top players have developped well, and are responding to being allowed to play a more open style. Is the coaching an issue? I couldn't argue that one, but on the players we have and the cap management, MB has done a very good job.

Is the team better, absolutely, but really how much of that is due to Bergevin and how much would have happened no matter what. Subban would have become a star no matter what. I doubt Gallagher would be much different either. Most analysts point out the Olympics being a turning point for Price being dominant. When you look at what Bergevin has done it's really not a lot, which is why most will talk about the culture he brought since it's something that is completely subjective and can't be measured.

Being a contender means you CONTEND with the top teams in the league. You brought up last season (stated we were contenders) when we had a horrible GF.....Now your argument is we have a great GF this season so are a contender.

We don't have a great top 6, it's clear.....We will need one to be a TRUE CONTENDER....not just get through a round or two come playoff time.

Our bottom 6 is scoring, if you think the rate they are scoring is sustainable, your wrong. When they slow down, I will come back and ask you if you think our top 6 needs help.

So how did we end up being 4th overall in the league last year if we couldn't contend with the top teams in the league?

And for the record, Price's record vs the 5 best teams last year by win% was 5-6-2. So we were contending with the top teams despite our horrible GF. You seem to be saying the only thing that matters is the top-6, that's wrong. Goaltending and defence matter as much if not more than the top-6, and we are the best in those areas.

Our weakness in the top-6 is more than compensated by our great goaltending and defence. That's what you don't seem to understand, EVERY team has room for improvement if it's not in the top-6 it's elsewhere in their lineup.

And let's look at how many goals some contender's top-6 have scored
Chi: 25
NYR: 24
Pit: 15
TBL: 18
LA: 23

Montreal's top-6 is at 24.

 

[jwrocks1]

Well in terms of impact players (Top-6 F, Top-4 D) he's added 1 in 4 years, Petry. So the number of holes he's dealt with aren't very numerous.



Is the team better, absolutely, but really how much of that is due to Bergevin and how much would have happened no matter what. Subban would have become a star no matter what. I doubt Gallagher would be much different either. Most analysts point out the Olympics being a turning point for Price being dominant. When you look at what Bergevin has done it's really not a lot, which is why most will talk about the culture he brought since it's something that is completely subjective and can't be measured.

we absolutely need another top 6. No doubt.

as for adding. My comments are not just trades and draft. But also cap management. He "added" Galchenyuk, Petry. But his cap mangement includes all the current contracts....Price, Gally, Petry, Pacioretty (maybe the best $for$ value in the NHL), Subban. And the supporting cast albeit seemingly minor has been improved under him.

So he is now in a position with good prospects and lots of picks. Cap pace this year and next...he has set us up to be in a position to get that top 6 guy, and make a real push.

The rub is now will he make the deal we need and if so, will the guy we get be the right "fit"?

 

[smirob]

Chi: 25
NYR: 24
Pit: 15
TBL: 18
LA: 23

Montreal's top-6 is at 24.

And how many of those top 6's would you take over MTLs?

 

[Sorinth]

we absolutely need another top 6. No doubt

And Chicago needs another top-4 defenceman, and the Rangers need another top-6 forward, etc....

Every team needs another guy XXXX.

 

[FerrisRox]

Being a contender means you CONTEND with the top teams in the league. You brought up last season (stated we were contenders) when we had a horrible GF.....Now your argument is we have a great GF this season so are a contender.

We don't have a great top 6, it's clear.....We will need one to be a TRUE CONTENDER....not just get through a round or two come playoff time.

Our bottom 6 is scoring, if you think the rate they are scoring is sustainable, your wrong. When they slow down, I will come back and ask you if you think our top 6 needs help.

So which teams do you think are contenders?

 

[SB164]

A trip down memory lane: Marc Bergevin on RDS's L'Antichambre the day he was hired by the Montreal Canadiens.

 

[BoNeS42]

A trip down memory lane: Marc Bergevin on RDS's L'Antichambre the day he was hired by the Montreal Canadiens.

@ 6:26 - Darkest moment in Habs history.

 

[jwrocks1]

And Chicago needs another top-4 defenceman, and the Rangers need another top-6 forward, etc....

Every team needs another guy XXXX.

I don't care about the other teams. And in the rest of my post I did note we had pieces that are enticing and can be used in a trade.....and that he needs to find the right fit.