Moving Jimmy

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

Leafs might trade for Howard to reach the cap floor this offseason.

We can only hope, But if the Leafs sign Stamkos then that might help them get close to the cap floor without adding Howard i don't know.

 

[HockeyinHD]

I say "regular roster players" and you include Ritola, Mursak, Emmerton and Meech. Way to just go ahead and ignore my post to suit your needs.

The reason I 'ignored' your post was that your gerrymandering was silly.

What, you're going to complain about Holland not trading or waiving roster players, except for the ones he did waive or trade, because they were bad and don't count?

What you're complaining about is... Holland not waiving or trading good roster players he drafted?

The rest were complete garbage that managed to be the Wings token healthy scratch.

So then Holland isn't attached to roster players he drafted universally... just the better ones. Okay.

You're really crushing him with your very hard hitting criticisms. Looking forward to you hammering him for not moving Mrazek for a 3rd rounder.

 

[HockeyinHD]

Would it be a better thing if Holland had made Ritola a regular roster player for a year before deciding he's garbage and traded him? Not really.

That's the central gap in the logic of the people who hammer Holland about this. They blame the circumstance for the success (or lack thereof) of a prospect, and not the prospect himself.

Whether Ritola came up a year sooner or a year later... he was still going to be the same player. Over-ripening really only impacts consistency, not ceiling.

As an aside, with Kindl gone the Wings now only have Kronwall, Ericsson, Abdelkader, Helm, Howard, Smith, Nyquist and Tatar on their roster from the 2000-2009 drafts. Just a point of note to people like WW who howl about Holland being so welded to his drafted assets. Literally only 5 picks since 2000 have gotten deals that go into their UFA years.

 

[InjuredChoker]

As an aside, with Kindl gone the Wings now only have Kronwall, Ericsson, Abdelkader, Helm, Howard, Smith, Nyquist and Tatar on their roster from the 2000-2009 drafts. Just a point of note to people like WW who howl about Holland being so welded to his drafted assets. Literally only 5 picks since 2000 have gotten deals that go into their UFA years.

franzen., quincey.

 

[r0bert8841]

For example, between 2000-2009: Kopecky, Meech, Fil, Hudler, Fleischmann, Quincey, Ritola, Emmerton, Mursak, Andersson, Ferraro, and Nestrasil were all drafted players who played for the Wings and then stopped playing for the Wings. Some were waived, some traded, and some were left unsigned either to be signed elsewhere or to fall out of the NHL... so even if we're just looking at the gerrymandered attempt he's making here, still wrong.

Matthias and Jarnkrok were other players that were moved out before they got to play an NHL game in Detroit, which seems to stand in contradiction to the notion of a reticence to move such assets.

You could also include undrafted players like Lebda, Leino, Jason Williams, and Sean Avery at the top of my head.

Edit: also your list forgot Filppula.

 

[RRhoads]

As an aside, with Kindl gone the Wings now only have Kronwall, Ericsson, Abdelkader, Helm, Howard, Smith, Nyquist and Tatar on their roster from the 2000-2009 drafts. Just a point of note to people like WW who howl about Holland being so welded to his drafted assets. Literally only 5 picks since 2000 have gotten deals that go into their UFA years.

Anderson and Tom McCollum

 

[LarKing]

I told you all Howard was better

 

[SpookyTsuki]

I told you all Howard was better

Too bad the trade deadline passed already. Gotta keep that bum mrazek

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

I told you all Howard was better

Would be nice to see Jimmy get his value back up.

 

[TheMule93]

Maybe he will start playing better and uo his trade value this summer

 

[TheOtherOne]

So I'm just spitballing weird hypotheticals here, but

What if Howard kind of reinvented himself to become a very good backup, but DRW doesn't want to spend that much money on a backup, and Howard would agree to take a paycut mid contract to avoid getting bought out or traded or whatever. Is there a way for that to happen? Is it possible for both parties to agree to retroactively reduce a contract?

My guess is no but just thought I'd throw out the question for those more knowledgeable.

 

[Flowah]

So I'm just spitballing weird hypotheticals here, but

What if Howard kind of reinvented himself to become a very good backup, but DRW doesn't want to spend that much money on a backup, and Howard would agree to take a paycut mid contract to avoid getting bought out or traded or whatever. Is there a way for that to happen? Is it possible for both parties to agree to retroactively reduce a contract?

My guess is no but just thought I'd throw out the question for those more knowledgeable.

I'm pretty sure that's not allowed.

 

[Frk It]

So I'm just spitballing weird hypotheticals here, but

What if Howard kind of reinvented himself to become a very good backup, but DRW doesn't want to spend that much money on a backup, and Howard would agree to take a paycut mid contract to avoid getting bought out or traded or whatever. Is there a way for that to happen? Is it possible for both parties to agree to retroactively reduce a contract?

My guess is no but just thought I'd throw out the question for those more knowledgeable.

Seems like clear cap circumvention. Howard's not that nice of a guy, or more frankly, he's not that stupid.

 

[redwingsphan]

So I'm just spitballing weird hypotheticals here, but

What if Howard kind of reinvented himself to become a very good backup, but DRW doesn't want to spend that much money on a backup, and Howard would agree to take a paycut mid contract to avoid getting bought out or traded or whatever. Is there a way for that to happen? Is it possible for both parties to agree to retroactively reduce a contract?

My guess is no but just thought I'd throw out the question for those more knowledgeable.

Im fairly certain that he wouldn't be able to re-sign with the wings if they mutually terminated his contract. And why would he leave millions of dollars on the table? I'm sure he'd rather not ride the bus, but for an extra few million a season I'm sure he'll manage.

 

[TheOctopusKid]

I'm pretty sure that's not allowed.

It's under the No Cap Circumvention Policy. A team is only allowed to terminate a contract if the player violates it somehow (i.e. assigning him to the AHL and he doesn't report like Petr Sykora). Even in that instance, the NHLPA and the NHL will negotiate either suspension or termination and that becomes a legal thing. Although if he were suspended, he would be removed from the cap during that period of time he was under suspension.

After the termination, I think there is still a clause where they are not allowed to resign with the team that terminated the contract for at least 1 year following the termination.

 

[HockeyinHD]

franzen., quincey.

Franzen's still technically on the team, and Quincey left and was re-acquired. Given that WW's (obviously bizarre) point was about Holland being too loyal to drafted assets, a guy like Quincey who was traded away falls out of that gerrymandered sample.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

Franzen's still technically on the team, and Quincey left and was re-acquired. Given that WW's (obviously bizarre) point was about Holland being too loyal to drafted assets, a guy like Quincey who was traded away falls out of that gerrymandered sample.

Quincey was not traded away by Holland. He was claimed off of waivers by LA.

 

[TheOtherOne]

It's under the No Cap Circumvention Policy. A team is only allowed to terminate a contract if the player violates it somehow (i.e. assigning him to the AHL and he doesn't report like Petr Sykora). Even in that instance, the NHLPA and the NHL will negotiate either suspension or termination and that becomes a legal thing. Although if he were suspended, he would be removed from the cap during that period of time he was under suspension.

After the termination, I think there is still a clause where they are not allowed to resign with the team that terminated the contract for at least 1 year following the termination.

Ah, good answer. Thanks.

 

[SirloinUB]

Howard has stopped 102 of his last 109 shots faced for 93.5 save %

 

[splot]

People are overreacting to a bad streak, he played great at the start of the season and is looking to be in form again. .909 isn't a horrible save %, it's mediocre. Look at the names with around that save % this season: Sergei Bobrovsky, Pekka Rinne, Cam Ward, Kari Lehtonen, Antti Nemi and so on. Only one of those are earning less than Howard and a few are at over 7 million. His contract is more than fair for a goalie with this kind of season as their worst.

I know Mrazek is the shiny new toy and he's been great so far, but goaltending is by nature streaky sometimes to no fault of the goaltender. Depending on what offers comes around this summer Howard may be dealt, though I doubt it. In my mind it's just as likely that Mrazek gets dealt. Or they just keep both, Mrazek isn't going to get nearly as much as people are predicting in the RFA thread after just a season and a half on a RFA contract.

 

[PetrPumpknEatr]

People are overreacting to a bad streak, he played great at the start of the season and is looking to be in form again. .909 isn't a horrible save %, it's mediocre. Look at the names with around that save % this season: Sergei Bobrovsky, Pekka Rinne, Cam Ward, Kari Lehtonen, Antti Nemi and so on. Only one of those are earning less than Howard and a few are at over 7 million. His contract is more than fair for a goalie with this kind of season as their worst.

I know Mrazek is the shiny new toy and he's been great so far, but goaltending is by nature streaky sometimes to no fault of the goaltender. Depending on what offers comes around this summer Howard may be dealt, though I doubt it. In my mind it's just as likely that Mrazek gets dealt. Or they just keep both, Mrazek isn't going to get nearly as much as people are predicting in the RFA thread after just a season and a half on a RFA contract.

There will be a revolution if the Wings dealt Mrazek. It's not going to happen.

 

[redwingsphan]

There will be a revolution if the Wings dealt Mrazek. It's not going to happen.

I agree that it is highly unlikely. He could bring a better return though. And he will command a higher salary than Howard in the future. So, I would have to see what the deal was before freaking out.

 

[14ari13]

That's the central gap in the logic of the people who hammer Holland about this. They blame the circumstance for the success (or lack thereof) of a prospect, and not the prospect himself.

Whether Ritola came up a year sooner or a year later... he was still going to be the same player. Over-ripening really only impacts consistency, not ceiling.

As an aside, with Kindl gone the Wings now only have Kronwall, Ericsson, Abdelkader, Helm, Howard, Smith, Nyquist and Tatar on their roster from the 2000-2009 drafts. Just a point of note to people like WW who howl about Holland being so welded to his drafted assets. Literally only 5 picks since 2000 have gotten deals that go into their UFA years.

And how many high draft picks? Very , very few.

 

[Reddwit]

People are overreacting to a bad streak, he played great at the start of the season and is looking to be in form again. .909 isn't a horrible save %, it's mediocre. Look at the names with around that save % this season: Sergei Bobrovsky, Pekka Rinne, Cam Ward, Kari Lehtonen, Antti Nemi and so on. Only one of those are earning less than Howard and a few are at over 7 million. His contract is more than fair for a goalie with this kind of season as their worst.

I know Mrazek is the shiny new toy and he's been great so far, but goaltending is by nature streaky sometimes to no fault of the goaltender. Depending on what offers comes around this summer Howard may be dealt, though I doubt it. In my mind it's just as likely that Mrazek gets dealt. Or they just keep both, Mrazek isn't going to get nearly as much as people are predicting in the RFA thread after just a season and a half on a RFA contract.

All of those goalies are considered overpaid.

Rinne has been losing the Preds games left and right and some suspect he'll never be good again, due to injuries.

Lehtonen, Ward, and Niemi are, at best, variants of Osgood, without the career/franchise stability.

Don't know much about Bobrovsky other than that he's had injury issues too.

You just put Howard in a class that most consider to be overpaid hacks.

Also, Howard has never looked as naturally talented as Pete and has also never put such a mediocre team on his back like Pete has. This team's leading scorer is on pace for 53 points. And this isn't a lockout year.

 

[Reddwit]

That's the central gap in the logic of the people who hammer Holland about this. They blame the circumstance for the success (or lack thereof) of a prospect, and not the prospect himself.

Whether Ritola came up a year sooner or a year later... he was still going to be the same player. Over-ripening really only impacts consistency, not ceiling.

As an aside, with Kindl gone the Wings now only have Kronwall, Ericsson, Abdelkader, Helm, Howard, Smith, Nyquist and Tatar on their roster from the 2000-2009 drafts. Just a point of note to people like WW who howl about Holland being so welded to his drafted assets. Literally only 5 picks since 2000 have gotten deals that go into their UFA years.

Thats a pretty hollow note unless you're going to compare that to their actual value as NHLers and interests in staying with the organization. I'm gonna hope that a revered NHL GM isn't going to be interested in retaining ECHL-level players just because they're home cookin and its not really going to matter whether or not a player was retained if he gave a big "**** no" to the Wings wanting to retain him, either verbally or through his contract orders.