Most underrated and overrated goalies?

[Bjornar Moxnes]

So who is the most underrated goalie in the league? Who is the most overrated.

Overrated - Dubnyk AINEC (Advanced stats speaking, Dubnyk has always been a drag on his team, and unlike other goalies that have high expected save percentages Dubnyk is god awful at playing the puck, meaning his expected save percentage is purely to do with the Wild's defense making the Wild's defense mighty impressive).
Underrated - Crawford (He's been absolutely fantastic at stopping the puck and giving his team a chance to win by not allowing goals since Chicago's last cup).

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[thedustman]

maybe jones , gibson, or mike smith might be underrated

while i'm not sure about overrated

i think holtby, j bob, and varlamov might be fairly rated?

 

[yangmang]

overrated - quick
underrated - bishop

 

[Skobel24]

Underrated: Freddy Andersson
Overrated: Matt Murray

 

[Linda Bacon]

Underrated: Craig Anderson
Overrated: Cory Schneider, no puck playing ability, lots of rebounds and down on his knees on literally every shot, is not Brodeur, etc.

 

[Zegras Zebra]

Underrated: Gibson, Crawford, maybe Hellebuyck
Overrated: Quick, Matt Murray, Rinne (at this time), maybe Bishop too

 

[Ace of Hades]

Underrated: Jonathan Quick, Mike Smith, Craig Anderson
Overrated: Matt Murray

 

[Cats2TheCup]

Reimer fits both. He wins?

 

[SladeWilson23]

People saying Quick, please tell me you're not looking just at his SV% considering how his SV% has been artificially deflated because of the team he plays on.

Underrated: Craig Anderson
Overrated: Cory Schneider, no puck playing ability, lots of rebounds and down on his knees on literally every shot, is not Brodeur, etc.

Wait, so he's overrated simply because he's not Brodeur?

 

[M2Beezy]

Overrated:

Helleback
Allen
Price

Underrated:

Jones
Crawford

 

[Regal]

overrated - quick
underrated - bishop

I would reverse these. Especially around here.

 

[firstemperor]

Underrated- Crawford, Holtby, Craig Anderson, Condon

Overrated- Price, Quick, Rinne

 

[SladeWilson23]

So who is the most underrated goalie in the league? Who is the most overrated.

Overrated - Dubnyk AINEC (Advanced stats speaking, Dubnyk has always been a drag on his team, and unlike other goalies that have high expected save percentages Dubnyk is god awful at playing the puck, meaning his expected save percentage is purely to do with the Wild's defense making the Wild's defense mighty impressive).
Underrated - Crawford (He's been absolutely fantastic at stopping the puck and giving his team a chance to win by not allowing goals since Chicago's last cup).

Good defensive teams actually deflate SV%.

 

[JustaFinnishGuy]

Don't get how Rinne is overrated, nobody is saying that he's the leagues best, and rarely has he ever been said to be. He's also very rarely a topic on the mainboards even if he's playing well like now. He's playing like a top goalie now though.
Guess making the SCF makes a goalie overrated
¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[Regal]

People saying Quick, please tell me you're not looking just at his SV% considering how his SV% has been artificially deflated because of the team he plays on.

Exactly. And now that the Kings are middle of the pack in terms of shots against, his save percentage is elite so far this year.

Good defensive teams actually deflate SV%.

I wouldn't say this necessarily though. Low shot totals can deflate SV%, but teams that limit high danger chances, rebounds and cross-crease plays more than they limit shot totals will likely inflate SV%.

 

[Bleedred]

So who is the most underrated goalie in the league? Who is the most overrated.

Overrated - Dubnyk AINEC (Advanced stats speaking, Dubnyk has always been a drag on his team, and unlike other goalies that have high expected save percentages Dubnyk is god awful at playing the puck, meaning his expected save percentage is purely to do with the Wild's defense making the Wild's defense mighty impressive).
Underrated - Crawford (He's been absolutely fantastic at stopping the puck and giving his team a chance to win by not allowing goals since Chicago's last cup).

I agree with both of these. Dubnyk is beyond streaky. He has a terrible year, an absolutely amazing year, an average year, then a good year, he's not consistently that good.

Crawford probably gets more respect now than he used to it, but he's usually gotten the short end of the stick by critics. Like for instance, it seems whenever a team is STACKED, their goalie is automatically jocked and given credit to their success. Whether they deserve it or not. Crawford was a major exception to this. For many others, people see they're a starter and their team is in the playoffs, so they must have a GREAT goalie, right? It was never like that with Crawford. The Niemi factor and belief that Chicago could win a cup with any goalie, as well as losing his starting job for a few games in the first round in 2015, probably just added fuel to the fire of people not giving him enough credit.

Over the past several years, I thought Rinne was overrated, because of his reputation from 2012 and earlier. He's definitely on pace to have his second consecutive good season in over half a decade though.

Halak was really frickin overrated, up until a year or two ago. Nobody really talks about him anymore, especially since he was waived last year and has started out this season equally as crummy, but it isn't costing the team games and they're winning.

 

[Bleedred]

Don't get how Rinne is overrated, nobody is saying that he's the leagues best, and rarely has he ever been said to be. He's also very rarely a topic on the mainboards even if he's playing well like now. He's playing like a top goalie now though.
Guess making the SCF makes a goalie overrated
¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Like I said, I only thought he was overrated like a year or two ago. He had a solid season and playoffs last year, but ever since the last lockout, he's wildly inconsistent from year to year. He'll have a bad year (or a couple bad ones) then have a good year, bad year, good again. He looks to be breaking that trend this year, so I wouldn't call him overrated anymore. Due to how inconsistent he's been over the past several years, I don't exactly consider him elite anymore, the way I did in 2012. I also don't consider him bordering Cam Ward, Kari Lehtonen territory anymore, which I think he was coming close to that in 15-16.

 

[Bleedred]

Honestly, I think Martin Jones is overrated. He was barely average last year, yet the Sharks made the playoffs, so people see that he's their starter, he made the finals the year before (he played great that year in both the regular season and playoffs, as well as most of the 6 games last year, where Edmonton badly outplayed the Sharks in most of the games) and they think he must be great, right? Niemi was also overrated by fans around the league when he was a Shark, at least in his first several years there. I'm sure the fact that he had recently won the cup with Chicago and played in the conference finals the next year with the Sharks, only fueled this reputation. Jones is playing some really good hockey this year, and has been the Sharks best player. I just don't agree with him being a top 10 goalie in the league yet, as he's never had two consecutive good seasons in his career. The fact that I've already seen two votes of him being underrated in this thread, as well as seeing him pop up everywhere in ''Top 10 goalie's in the NHL'' lists this past offseason, that pretty much confirms for me that he's overrated.

He wasn't very good last season, he wasn't the reason the Sharks made the playoffs, I can tell you that for certain. This year, he's the main reason the Sharks are in a playoff spot. He just has yet to put together two good seasons in a row.

 

[TLEH]

Crawford is definitely underrated. He lugged that team on his back last year and they won the division behind him, not because their team was good. Evident by their first round sweep.

The only real lapse in his play was 2014 LA(two amazing teams) and 2015 Nashville series(just couldn't stop the puck). He never gets Vezina votes.

I think Quick is a good goalie, like top 10. The fact he finished 3rd in Vezina voting in 2015-2016 is proof that he is overrated in my opinion.

 

[Bjornar Moxnes]

Good defensive teams actually deflate SV%.

That's not the point, Dubnyk faces a ton of low quality shots, just like Lehner which is why despite their great Sv% at times they are not actually playing well whatsoever. Now Allen and Rinne don't face too many high quality chances, and in Allen's scenario he faces some of the lowest chances overall in the league, but both of these goalies have great rebound control (Rinne is arguably the best rebound controller in the league, there was actually a study done on puck frozen percentage and low danger rebounds, and Rinne was AINEC in both categories, but this study has not been done after the 2014-2015 concluded). Both are also excellent puck handlers/movers. Dubnyk is outright awful in moving the puck, Lehner isn't good. Dubnyk's rebound control has been much better with the Wild than other teams, but it's still nothing special, while Lhehner's rebound control is god awful. This is kinda showing that their expected save percentage is far more team based, rather than RInne and Allen's, who yes have their teams excellent defense helping them out, but at the same time they also support their teams. Allen's expected save percentage on the same Blues team was always significantly better than Elliotts, and especially better than Halak, because Allen is a superior rebound controller and puck player, which limit chances of all quality.

 

[Bjornar Moxnes]

Crawford is definitely underrated. He lugged that team on his back last year and they won the division behind him, not because their team was good. Evident by their first round sweep.

The only real lapse in his play was 2014 LA(two amazing teams) and 2015 Nashville series(just couldn't stop the puck). He never gets Vezina votes.

I think Quick is a good goalie, like top 10. The fact he finished 3rd in Vezina voting in 2015-2016 is proof that he is overrated in my opinion.

I really wouldn't say Crawford lugged the team on his back as Darling himself was even better in his role. Crawford had an elite 2015-2016 though that's for sure. Last season he was great but he wasn't wordly imho.

 

[TLEH]

Both the goalies last season played exceptional. The first 20 or so games, they got outplayed so incredibly bad and still ended up OK because of them. It was a deeply flawed team that had no business finishing first.

 

[Bleedred]

Yeah, I don't think Quick is that overrated anymore, at he's not on this forum. In the media? Maybe a little bit still. Anytime one of these threads happen, most people that aren't Kings fans, are really quick to dismiss any claim that Quick is elite or even a top 10 goalie.

I think he's a top 10 goalie, even though I think aside from about 7 or 8 goalie's, there really aren't other goalie's that are consistent from year to year. Even Schneider and Lundqvist had pretty weak years last season, and Price is on pace for one this year, although he's been climbing up by a lot in his last several games since returning. Bobrovsky had a weak 15-16 as well.

Quick is consistently solid from year to year. He had that one really amazing year and playoffs in 2011-2012, then pretty consistently in the .915-.918 range from year to year. As far as the fewer shots hurting the save percentage argument, it is pretty funny that Quick is facing quite a bit more shots this year and his save percentage is 12 points higher than last year. Funny enough, when he had played the same amount of minutes this year as he did all of last year, his save percentage was 13 points higher and he faced close to 100 shots more and allowed just about the same number of goals. Maybe it's random and from a smaller sample size, but it is certainly something that makes you think.

Just like many goalie's have had their save percentages bloated from facing more shots. One goalie that I always thought was a product of this was Jonas Hiller for a couple years in the late 00's and early 10's. Then when he went to facing an average amount of shots per game (under 30), he started posting very barely average numbers.

 

[Bjornar Moxnes]

Yeah, I don't think Quick is that overrated anymore, at he's not on this forum. In the media? Maybe a little bit still. Anytime one of these threads happen, most people that aren't Kings fans, are really quick to dismiss any claim that Quick is elite or even a top 10 goalie.

I think he's a top 10 goalie, even though I think aside from about 7 or 8 goalie's, there really aren't other goalie's that are consistent from year to year. Even Schneider and Lundqvist had pretty weak years last season, and Price is on pace for one this year, although he's been climbing up by a lot in his last several games since returning. Bobrovsky had a weak 15-16 as well.

Quick is consistently solid from year to year. He had that one really amazing year and playoffs in 2011-2012, then pretty consistently in the .915-.918 range from year to year. As far as the fewer shots hurting the save percentage argument, it is pretty funny that Quick is facing quite a bit more shots this year and his save percentage is 12 points higher than last year. Funny enough, when he had played the same amount of minutes this year as he did all of last year, his save percentage was 13 points higher and he faced close to 100 shots more and allowed just about the same number of goals. Maybe it's random and from a smaller sample size, but it is certainly something that makes you think.

Just like many goalie's have had their save percentages bloated from facing more shots. One goalie that I always thought was a product of this was Jonas Hiller for a couple years in the late 00's and early 10's. Then when he went to facing an average amount of shots per game (under 30), he started posting very barely average numbers.

Hiller had a .944 Sv% in the 2009 playoffs and he faced almost 40 shots a game, many were extremely high quality as he played a prime Sharks and Red Wings team.

 

[Bleedred]

Reimer fits both. He wins?

I think he's very subtly overrated, but very subtly.

Because when he's talked about by pundits, it's always ''Well, Reimer got shit on too much in Toronto, and he's always had a bad team in front of him, and Toronto was so bad in front of him. He's a really solid goalie''. The truth is, Reimer had some good seasons and some bad seasons in Toronto. He's another one of these goaltenders that's wildly inconsistent from year to year. In fact, last year was the first time that he had consecutive good seasons in the league. He's had a couple really good seasons in Toronto, and a couple lousy ones. He was especially good in the lockout year, as well as his rookie year, and he was playing solid in Toronto in 15-16, before he was traded to San Jose. He was significantly better than Bernier was that year, and he was astronomically better than Sparks was that year.

I'm not a believer in his. Everyone always tries to convince me that he's good, but it never works. I know he was good last year, after he seemed to have a crummy start. He's having another crummy start to this year. I really wouldn't trust him to be the number one goalie after Luongo retires. In fact, I would hope Luongo comes back for another couple years after this, unless he completely falls apart by the end of the year. Reimer seems like a guy that can give you a good 30-40 games (some years), but just as easily give you a bad 30+ games, and I wouldn't even wanna find out if he can give you a good 50+ games or not. He's also a goalie that's always failed the eye test for me. I remember a game against Toronto last year for the Panthers, where he allowed 6 goals and literally at least 4 goals were really, really, nasty, awful goals against. More than just ''I thought he could have had it''. And I know it's just one game, but it's a fairly recent example that stick with me off the top of my head. I've had this opinion on him for years though. And he seems to allow a lot of leaky goals, where he goes down in the butterfly, and a puck narrowly squeaks between his arms or legs, he thinks he has it, you think he has it, everyone on his team thinks he has it, the shooter thinks he had it, then you hear the crowd either groan or cheer (depending on if it's a home game or not) and you see it beat him and then he immediately drops his head after this, with some uninspiring body language. Just watch him, it's a trademark of his.