Pre-Game Talk: Montreal vs Pittsburgh

[Shady Machine]

I don't think Despres is going to get much better than he already is. He'll be a solid 3rd or 4th defensemen with a smidgeon of offensive ability for the rest of his career.

Which is great, and is something we could really really use. Sigh.

I disagree. He is already getting better. His confidence in the offensive zone is where he will continue to make strides.

BBQ Bruce said:

"I think he’s just touched the surface of his play," Boudreau said. "He's big and strong. He’s still growing into his body. He was a very good offensive defenseman turned into a defensive defenseman sort of. Now if he can [put together] both of those things, I think you’ve got something special."

I would agree with that. Once he became a pro, he focused on becoming a better defensive dman and the Penguins basically wanted him to stop taking chances. In retrospect, it wasn't a bad idea if they fed him consistent minutes and didn't punish him for making mistakes. He actually made great strides on the defensive side of things and once we dumped him, the Ducks played him as a shutdown guy and top PK guy. With more confidence, he is learning when to take chances offensively and can develop that side of his game.

I really think his upside is a top pairing all situations guy. I don't think he will ever be a PP QB type because 1.The Ducks have no need for him there and 2.He doesn't have the poise to be the primary puck distributor up top IMO. I do think he can be a PP option, just not a first unit QB guy.

 

[IcedCapp]

There's a Bibs joke in there

i kept thinking, "I wish there was a way to type this without it sounding like a dick joke", but alas, there wasn't.

Don't worry, Simon, I've heard good things.

 

[bambamcam4ever]

he's going to get better in the offensive zone. He's pretty good defensively now.

Still think he has to get used to the size of his body, to be honest. Almost feels like he needs to use a longer stick.

I think you are overrating him defensively and probably undervaluing his offensive contributions. I think he does a very good job jumping into the play, but his biggest problem to me has always been his positioning and reading the play in his own zone, which hasn't substantially improved. Regardless, he is better than Cole who is likely a #5.

As for the growing into his body thing, I'm the same height as Despres and I've always had very good body control, and I'm not a professional athlete. It's not like he's the height of Yao Ming.

 

[Jesse]

I disagree. He is already getting better. His confidence in the offensive zone is where he will continue to make strides.

BBQ Bruce said:



I would agree with that. Once he became a pro, he focused on becoming a better defensive dman and the Penguins basically wanted him to stop taking chances. In retrospect, it wasn't a bad idea if they fed him consistent minutes and didn't punish him for making mistakes. He actually made great strides on the defensive side of things and once we dumped him, the Ducks played him as a shutdown guy and top PK guy. With more confidence, he is learning when to take chances offensively and can develop that side of his game.

I really think his upside is a top pairing all situations guy. I don't think he will ever be a PP QB type because 1.The Ducks have no need for him there and 2.He doesn't have the poise to be the primary puck distributor up top IMO. I do think he can be a PP option, just not a first unit QB guy.

Meanwhile, in Pittsburgh, reporters sub-tweet about supposed gambling issues because the kid went to the WSOP.

 

[Shady Machine]

Meanwhile, in Pittsburgh, reporters sub-tweet about supposed gambling issues because the kid went to the WSOP.

Yeah doesn't that piss you off? I mean you've worked with some of those guys. Do you ever have conversations with any of them about the Despres ******** treatment in the Pittsburgh media?

 

[Jesse]

Yeah doesn't that piss you off? I mean you've worked with some of those guys. Do you ever have conversations with any of them about the Despres ******** treatment in the Pittsburgh media?

The whole thing is so baffling to me. I'm of the mindset that you talk about that stuff when a person is here, not afterwards. Give them a chance to defend themselves.

The people responsible for those insinuations aren't exactly on speaking terms with me in any way. I haven't really broached the subject with anyone in-depth. For all intents and purposes, when that trade initially went down, it was a pure, 100% hockey trade. The other stuff started to matriculate its way to the Twittersphere weeks afterwards, IIRC.

 

[KIRK]

This was always one of my favorite (read: aggravating) Malkin/Penguins moments. Years ago, when they were just starting to make noise about the idea of playing him up top (similar to how they were making noise about split units a bit last season and obviously in preseason) they asked him what he thought. He was very frank... saying essentially that he was extremely uncomfortable playing the point, always had been and probably always would be.

So that's promptly where they put him.

The powerplay's issues go a lot deeper than two units can fix. But like you pointed out... I mean... who cares, really. If it's a dumpster fire one way... it might as well be a dumpster fire the other way, too. At least they both get to play their "preferred spots" eh? What a win for us and the team.

Geno hate point. Geno put at point.

Makes total sense.

You guys forgot the best part: Geno crucified in the media for not being a team guy for speaking up.

BTW, one thing in all seriousness should be clarified: Geno hates the left point. They put him there for the 2008 playoffs. That's when he spoke up. And, pretty much since Bylsma was hired and now onto Johnston, whenever he plays on the point, it's on the left side.

But, he did play on the right point for Therrien to open the 2008-2009 season. If you recall, both Gonchar and Whitney were hurt, so it basically was Malkin or rookie Alex Gologoski for the right point. That Pens PP was Malkin right point, Sid right circle, Gogo left point, and then you had Satan and Sykora out there. It actually was surprisingly effective until teams realized that Satan and Sykora sucked and just took away Sid and Geno.

Again, all seriousness, I think the reason Malkin hates the left point is because he can't shoot from there cleanly. I'm not saying he prefers right point to right circle, but I've seen him be quite effective on the right point before.

 

[Scandale du Jour]

I agree that I don't think Despres will be having much growing left, but I think he's more than a #4D. I think he is and will be a solid 2-wat #3D that can anchor his own pair, but I'm not sold he will develop any further. I always thought Despres had a ton of raw talent, but I think his hockey IQ wasn't on par with that talent.



That KCK line seems to enjoy skipping optional skates, Kessel is obviously a negative impact on them

So the two old farts who should be fighting to keep their jobs are skipping optionals....

 

[MrBurghundy]

The whole thing is so baffling to me. I'm of the mindset that you talk about that stuff when a person is here, not afterwards. Give them a chance to defend themselves.

The people responsible for those insinuations aren't exactly on speaking terms with me in any way. I haven't really broached the subject with anyone in-depth. For all intents and purposes, when that trade initially went down, it was a pure, 100% hockey trade. The other stuff started to matriculate its way to the Twittersphere weeks afterwards, IIRC.

It's a shame we don't have people like you in the positions that some of these other reporters are in.

 

[KIRK]

A guy who is sitting like Clendening probably secretly wishes Scuderi would get hit by a bus, and is probably resentful to a degree.

I can't speak for any of the guys in that locker room, but when I played with lesser talented teammates, I just figured I had to elevate my game. It's about personal responsibility and letting the coaches make the right decisions.

I'm pretty sure the guys in that locker room are looking in the mirror and trying to figure out what they can do to get this team out of this half season plus scoring drought. I don't think they are looking at Scuds and Kunitz as the core problems like us. Those are their friends, mostly. We saw how they rallied around MAF when he was a complete mess.

So sad . . . and so true.

I had a dream last night, though: When Scuderi ***** up another dozen or so times tonight and is turned into a human turnstile by the Habs little speedy forwards, Sid and Geno tell Johnston to skate a bunch of gassers for continuing to dress Scuderi.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I just saw a fun stat: since January 1st, the Pens are 21-24-7. That winning % over a full season would amount to a 77 point season, which would put us 25th in the NHL last year. So if this crap continues, it's totally possible that we will be a bottom-10 team this year.

 

[Jesse]

You guys forgot the best part: Geno crucified in the media for not being a team guy for speaking up.

BTW, one thing in all seriousness should be clarified: Geno hates the left point. They put him there for the 2008 playoffs. That's when he spoke up. And, pretty much since Bylsma was hired and now onto Johnston, whenever he plays on the point, it's on the left side.

But, he did play on the right point for Therrien to open the 2008-2009 season. If you recall, both Gonchar and Whitney were hurt, so it basically was Malkin or rookie Alex Gologoski for the right point. That Pens PP was Malkin right point, Sid right circle, Gogo left point, and then you had Satan and Sykora out there. It actually was surprisingly effective until teams realized that Satan and Sykora sucked and just took away Sid and Geno.

Again, all seriousness, I think the reason Malkin hates the left point is because he can't shoot from there cleanly. I'm not saying he prefers right point to right circle, but I've seen him be quite effective on the right point before.

At this point, I think he just wants to be on the top unit period. He said as much after the Arizona game.

His average power-play shift time in the Arizona game was 32 seconds. That's barely enough time to gain possession in some cases. They've taken the 9th best points-per-60 guy in the last two years on the power-play and have given him scrap time. That's just absolutely obscene to me.

 

[Shady Machine]

The whole thing is so baffling to me. I'm of the mindset that you talk about that stuff when a person is here, not afterwards. Give them a chance to defend themselves.

The people responsible for those insinuations aren't exactly on speaking terms with me in any way. I haven't really broached the subject with anyone in-depth. For all intents and purposes, when that trade initially went down, it was a pure, 100% hockey trade. The other stuff started to matriculate its way to the Twittersphere weeks afterwards, IIRC.

Yup you are correct with regards to the twitter hate. It seems likely that the fan outrage actually caused the Pens to re-think the strategy. I have no doubt that DK was told to push the gambling agenda.

 

[KIRK]

Regardless of if MJ had a say in the decision to trade Despres, it wasn't like he put a lot of trust in Despres. There were some "maybe" moments during last season, but generally he played 13minutes a game with Scuds only. It's not like he gave management any pause for trading Despres with the way he played him. Shame on MJ, he sucks.

He seems to have the same level of faith in Maatta and Dumoulin if TOI allocation is any indication.

 

[MrBurghundy]

At this point, I think he just wants to be on the top unit period. He said as much after the Arizona game.

His average power-play shift time in the Arizona game was 32 seconds. That's barely enough time to gain possession in some cases. They've taken the 9th best points-per-60 guy in the last two years on the power-play and have given him scrap time. That's just absolutely obscene to me.

Why they (or Sid himself) refuses to play in the spot that he'd be best suited for (down around and below the goal line) is way beyond me. Geno is just simply better than Sid in the position that Sid wants to play.

edit: Also I'm getting real sick and tired of seeing passes forced through players skates and sticks. If the pass isn't there than don't ****ing make it. Just because you're Sidney Crosby, doesn't mean you can defy the laws of physics.

 

[UnderratedBrooks44]

I just saw a fun stat: since January 1st, the Pens are 21-24-7. That winning % over a full season would amount to a 77 point season, which would put us 25th in the NHL last year. So if this crap continues, it's totally possible that we will be a bottom-10 team this year.

I forgot that whole "they've been .500 since the calendar turned" stat, which did deserve to be brought up again at this point.

They will certainly fire Johnston before it gets too dire for what it's worth. It's funny. Someone suggested early last week that he could lose his job 12 games in, which many of us kinda brushed off. Now here we are with a real chance to go 0-3 and having a hard time scoring even though it's just two games. That notion has all of a sudden become very real.

 

[KIRK]

At this point, I think he just wants to be on the top unit period. He said as much after the Arizona game.

His average power-play shift time in the Arizona game was 32 seconds. That's barely enough time to gain possession in some cases. They've taken the 9th best points-per-60 guy in the last two years on the power-play and have given him scrap time. That's just absolutely obscene to me.

Oh, I don't disagree, and their usage of him has been insane.

What's going to be really funny tonight is that it's going to be Kunitz, not Horny, on that stacked top PP, so there won't be a reliable puck retriever or net front presence out there.

 

[SidDidNothingWrong]

I migt actually cry tonight if we come out flat.

 

[MrBurghundy]

Oh, I don't disagree, and their usage of him has been insane.

What's going to be really funny tonight is that it's going to be Kunitz, not Horny, on that stacked top PP, so there won't be a reliable puck retriever or net front presence out there.

They really need to cut it with the man in the slot ******** too. Especially if they continue to force cross ice passes through that area and refuse to shoot, because defenders are always going to be there.

 

[KIRK]

Seems like your fanbase has moved from "cautious negativity" to "outright depression"

Yeah, I get it though. You are off to a rough start with a rough end to a season before. Still, as an outsider it seems that Crosby is just too good to be in a slump for too long. Has he ever gone three games straight without a shot on goal?

I'm more worried about Malkin. He seems to be in dark paths right now and for the looks of it, there is no light at the end of the tunnel.

This probably doesn't help things for Malkin. Notice what Hornqvist does after Plotnikov has gone to the net and that slot is wide open for a shooter:

Then there's the 2nd PP unit stuff which apparently has come to an end.

But, it's 2 games right now, unless you want to count the end of last season, when he probably shouldn't have been playing.

We'll see . . . with a coach with his finger on the pulse of his team and with a 'get the puck to a trailing Scuderi' system like Mike Johnston, I'm sure you've no reason to worry.

 

[KIRK]

I agree that I don't think Despres will be having much growing left, but I think he's more than a #4D. I think he is and will be a solid 2-wat #3D that can anchor his own pair, but I'm not sold he will develop any further. I always thought Despres had a ton of raw talent, but I think his hockey IQ wasn't on par with that talent.



That KCK line seems to enjoy skipping optional skates, Kessel is obviously a negative impact on them

In defense of Kunitz and Scuderi, it's not like they'd accomplish any more by going to practice (or playing in a game) than they would by skipping.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I forgot that whole "they've been .500 since the calendar turned" stat, which did deserve to be brought up again at this point.

They will certainly fire Johnston before it gets too dire for what it's worth. It's funny. Someone suggested early last week that he could lose his job 12 games in, which many of us kinda brushed off. Now here we are with a real chance to go 0-3 and having a hard time scoring even though it's just two games. That notion has all of a sudden become very real.

I guarantee they're going to lose tonight, they're not going to be able to generate anything offensively against the Habs with Price in net. MJ isn't going to get fired that soon unless we start out 0-12, but in the first 12 games, they play Toronto twice. I really can't see them losing to the Leafs. Would a 4-8 start of a 3-9 start be enough to convince the ownership to can MJ? I wouldn't know.

It's not unrealistic for us to go 4-8 in our first 12 either. We play the Capitals, Predators, Habs, Leafs twice, Sabres, Stars, Panthers, Senators and Canucks in our next 10. I'm betting all of the first 3 (Caps, Preds and Habs) beat us and the Pens beat the Leafs both times, so that puts us at 2-5 through the first 7. Is going 2-3 against the Sabres, Stars (who we've already gotten smacked by), Panthers, Senators and Canucks unrealistic? I personally don't think so.

 

[cajal]

Win or lose, I just hope they don't look totally clueless tonight like they have in the first two games.

Anything to build on would be good at this point.

 

[KIRK]

I guarantee they're going to lose tonight, they're not going to be able to generate anything offensively against the Habs with Price in net. MJ isn't going to get fired that soon unless we start out 0-12, but in the first 12 games, they play Toronto twice. I really can't see them losing to the Leafs. Would a 4-8 start of a 3-9 start be enough to convince the ownership to can MJ? I wouldn't know.

It's not unrealistic for us to go 4-8 in our first 12 either. We play the Capitals, Predators, Habs, Leafs twice, Sabres, Stars, Panthers, Senators and Canucks in our next 10. I'm betting all of the first 3 (Caps, Preds and Habs) beat us and the Pens beat the Leafs both times, so that puts us at 2-5 through the first 7. Is going 2-3 against the Sabres, Stars (who we've already gotten smacked by), Panthers, Senators and Canucks unrealistic? I personally don't think so.

IC, would that do it?

Please . . .

 

[bathroomSTAAL]

Kunitz deserves a day off after that strong practice yesterday