LeBrun: Montreal had chat with Arizona for a 3OA, 5OA swap.

[NORiculous]

Oh god no!

Thanks for the deep input.

 

[rt]

A bit of what? Are you doing the parody of online trolling?

Oh man. Alright, well you’ve either got me, or that post I quoted was the worst I’ve seen since the trade deadline, at least.

 

[rt]

Thanks for the deep input.

Who are you guys hoping to grab at fifth? Who would you expect to take at third if Dahlin and Svechnikov are off the board?

 

[NORiculous]

Oh man. Alright, well you’ve either got me, or that post I quoted was the worst I’ve seen since the trade deadline, at least.

From the details you provided on your last few post, its starts with a T.

 

[NORiculous]

Who are you guys hoping to grab at fifth? Who would you expect to take at third if Dahlin and Svechnikov are off the board?

If you read the thread, you would know.
Zadina and Kotkaniemi

 

[rt]

If you read the thread, you would know.
Zadina and Kotkaniemi

Okay. Well, if you’re Bergevin and I’m Chayka, I’d just let you know that my top 4 are Dahlin, Svechnikov, Zadina and Kotkaniemi.

There’s no way you’d get any of those four past pick five, because I’d take any of them available at five. So if you want to trade down to sixth or later, pick a new name to target because those will be gone.

If you really have to have Zadina or Kotkaniemi, you’d better either pick one at 3rd or trade with Arizona. If you want to get an asset out of this, I’m offering 74th overall. Or perhaps 55th overall, but only if you are willing to add 102nd overall.

If neither of those offers do it for you, pick the winger 3rd and we’ll take the center 5th and keep our assets. If you really want your center, take the offer or take him 3rd. Doesn’t really matter to us.

 

[NORiculous]

Okay. Well, if you’re Bergevin and I’m Chayka, I’d just let you know that my top 4 are Dahlin, Svechnikov, Zadina and Kotkaniemi.

There’s no way you’d get any of those four past pick five, because I’d take any of them available at five. So if you want to trade down to sixth or later, pick a new name to target because those will be gone.

If you really have to have Zadina or Kotkaniemi, you’d better either pick one at 3rd or trade with Arizona. If you want to get an asset out of this, I’m offering 74th overall. Or perhaps 55th overall, but only if you are willing to add 102nd overall.

If neither of those offers do it for you, pick the winger 3rd and we’ll take the center 5th and keep our assets. If you really want your center, take the offer or take him 3rd. Doesn’t really matter to us.

That is exactly what I was saying. In order to NOT pick 3rd OV, the Yotes offering a package with 2nd rond, Domi or Perlini won't cut it. (and yes the Habs give something back in those, but at that point it would only be details) It makes no sense no pass on Zadina without a C coming back.

If you read my posts, I wasn't asking for a FREE C on top of the 5th OV. But for it to become interesting, a C would need to be included.

Funny how you trolled the post but then said the exact same thing.

 

[rt]

That is exactly what I was saying. In order to NOT pick 3rd OV, the Yotes offering a package with 2nd rond, Domi or Perlini won't cut it. (and yes the Habs give something back in those, but at that point it would only be details) It makes no sense no pass on Zadina without a C coming back.

If you read my posts, I wasn't asking for a FREE C on top of the 5th OV. But for it to become interesting, a C would need to be included.

Funny how you trolled the post but then said the exact same thing.

He’s doubled down. Oh man...

 

[Jakey53]

And Zadina is a high value 3rd OA pick, so the pick is worth more than what you see above.

You could say the same with the 5 OA. The way it sounds the group 3-10 are very interchangeable. It just comes down how each team feels about the player they want.

 

[Jakey53]

1) Any time someone talks about Habs picks i'm just gonna link that chart, trading picks isn't opinion based like hockey trades are so there's no point in arguing over trade value.

2) How are picks valued, you tell me (you know teams use similar charts right? there's a vid of Kekalainen talking about pick values with his staff after he got an offer for Columbus' pick, happened on the draft floor). Making a blank statement without any explanation doesn't really tell me anything.

3) No point in arguing over prospects with people on this board, you have your opinion of him and i have mine. The difference between you and me is that i've followed most of these guys for the past 2 years.

I understand Montreal told management to rebuild and get as many picks as possible. I think they will keep the 3 OA, as they should and will trade vets for picks and prospects.

 

[Jakey53]

Hearing Arizona wants Tkachuk thats why they would move up.

Maybe the Coyotes figure Ottawa wants Tkachuk so they need to move up to 3 OA to get him?

 

[Jakey53]

would be dumb to take the D when Montreal has the Worst Center pool in the NHL..

Does that really matter? The C that is being discussed here may only be a 2 C in the NHL down the road. A D could be a first pairing as early as next year, but even if it takes a couple of y ears, would you rather have a 1 D pairing or a 2 line C? Montreal was told to rebuild.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

3rd for 5th and Domi?

Does mtl add another later pick?

Wow overpayment.

 

[Heldig]

Maybe the Coyotes figure Ottawa wants Tkachuk so they need to move up to 3 OA to get him?

The only reason for the Coyotes to trade up is because they believe Ottawa will take the player they covet. That said, Chayka has already stated they are fine at 5 and will be drafting a very good player.

 

[Jakey53]

The only reason for the Coyotes to trade up is because they believe Ottawa will take the player they covet. That said, Chayka has already stated they are fine at 5 and will be drafting a very good player.

Exactly, that's what I said.

 

[rt]

I think the odds are pretty good that Ottawa’s top five and Arizona’s top five are different enough that Arizona ends up with their 4th ranked player still on the board at 5th. Depending on what Montreal does, there’s a small but very real chance the Arizona could end up with their 3rd ranked player at 5th.

I have no evidence to present, obviously, but given the lack of consensus in the top five I would bet that the combined odds of Arizona getting their 3rd or 4th ranked player at 5th are actually higher than the odds of them getting only their 5th ranked player.

As such, I really doubt there exists a tremendous appetite on the part do the Coyotes to pay a significant price to move up to 3rd. Unless they consider the drop off from their 3rd ranked to 4th ranked player to be much deeper than most folks with opinions on such things seem to.

I haven’t seen anything lately that suggests there is a definite 3rd best prospect that has separated himself by leaps and bounds from whoever the favorite fourth or fifth best prospects are. Hell, not even the sixth or seventh best prospects, really.

It’s wide open after the top two. The most I’d offer to go from 5th to 3rd is the 55th. Even then, I really don’t think I’d pull the trigger on that. I’d rather gamble on having my cake and eating it too, right where I’m at at 5th.

 

[TT1]

You could say the same with the 5 OA. The way it sounds the group 3-10 are very interchangeable. It just comes down how each team feels about the player they want.

4 to 11 is interchangeable (Dobson/Tkachuk/Boqvist/Wahlstrom/Kotkaniemi/Bouchard/Hughes/Smith)

personally i'm pretty high on Farabee as well (12) and i have Dobson solidly at 4, so 5 to 12 is interchangeable on my list

 

[Scott Malkinson]

Montreal should move down to 5th and pick Kotkaniemi.

Stockpile those picks and do it right.

 

[Steve Shutt]

According to the chart posted above the difference in value between #3 (2250) and #5 (1800) is 450 points. That's equivalent to the Coyotes offering #55 (130), #65 (93), #73(70), #74(67), #158(6.6), #189 (3.1) which only totals 276.7 points so they would need to add a 2019 2nd round pick (#46 is worth 174)

I believe the Islanders offered their entire draft in 2012 to move from #4 to #2 and Columbus said no. Note: They had all of their picks

Based on history (my understanding of how the chart value was constructed) the Habs would need a solid piece from Coyotes equivalent to a late 1st to swap picks. Domi is overpayment but if both teams were interested I'd be curious to see what they come up with

 

[rt]

Different chart. Haha.

 

[rt]

Point being, teams have their own charts. It’s not meaningful to rely on a google image.

 

[Kudo Shinichi]

Different chart. Haha.

No way the difference between 3rd overall and 5th overall is a 5th rounder

 

[Steve Shutt]

Different chart. Haha.

Huge difference using that chart. The difference in that case would only be 85 points or the equivalent of a fifth rounder (picks 127-129).

I wonder why the charts are so far apart in value. Any idea which one is more used or more recent?

 

[The Great Weal]

Different chart. Haha.

At least the other chart is far more realistic.

 

[rt]

No way the difference between 3rd overall and 5th overall is a 5th rounder

Yep. Totally agree. Bad chart. What’s a good one look like?