Montreal Dream Team vs. Team Russia Dream Team

[Sentinel]

(Hmm... I just noticed my forward lines are very similar to the ones Sentinel picked...)

Except I wouldn't include Mogilny. A huge peak (although some of it has to be attributed to Lafontaine), but the rest of his career is not exactly all time great. Replace him with Yak the Fighter and you are on

 

[Den]

Kasparaitis, Konstantinov, Mogilny, Nabokov do not belong on this team. Ovy and Malkin do not yet.

 

[Den]

An all-time peer-to-peer team contains Bobrov on offence and Konovalenko as the back up to Tretyak.

 

[Den]

I'll have ashot at it

KLM
KPM
Bure-Maltsev-Yakushev
Bobrov-(Dats or Fedorov)-Balderis
Firsov


Fetisov-Kasatonov
Vasiliev-Ragulin
Bil-Lutchenko
Sologubov

Tretyak
Konovalenko

 

[Syckle78]

I would play Fedorov on defense.

 

[RockemSockemProberts]

Except I wouldn't include Mogilny. A huge peak (although some of it has to be attributed to Lafontaine), but the rest of his career is not exactly all time great. Replace him with Yak the Fighter and you are on

Yeah, I guess Mogily's peak was pretty limited, right?

Kasparaitis, Konstantinov, Mogilny, Nabokov do not belong on this team. Ovy and Malkin do not yet.

Fair enough. Like I said, I'm still learning about some of the earlier generations of Soviet greats.

Actually, I got to thinking that the line-up I posted is a bit mixed up in a sense. I mean, are we going with Soviet or Russian players? If the latter, then my line up is ok (other than the question of who should or shouldn't be included based on skill). But if it's a purely Soviet line-up we're trying to build then in my opinion, Datsyuk, Malkin, and Ovechkin should never be included, as I don't think many people would consider them to be products of the Soviet system -- certainly not direct products.

Anyway, very interesting thread. Even more so since I'm currently reading a book about the '72 Summit Series.

 

[Boxscore]

My lineups......

Montreal Canadiens

D. Moore - J. Beliveau - M. Richard
A. Joliat - H. Morenz - G. Lafleur
S. Shutt - N. Lalonde - T. Blake
B. Gainey - H. Richard - Y. Cournoyer
E. Lach

D. Harvey - L. Robinson
G. Lapointe - S. Savard
Chelios - J. Laperriere
Geoffrion

P. Roy
J. Plante
K. Dryden


Russia/USSR

V. Krutov - I. Larionov - S. Makarov
A. Mogilny - S. Fedorov - P. Bure
V. Kharlamov - B. Mikhailov - A. Ovechkin
E. Malkin - P. Datsyuk - A. Maltsev
V. Petrov

V. Fetisov - A. Kasatonov
V. Vasiliev - S. Zubov
S. Gonchar - A. Ragulin
V. Konstantinov

V. Tretiak
E. Nabokov
N. Khabibulin

Believe it or not but I think Russia wins the series based on chemistry. The top 2 lines are world-class, proven talent with innate experience dominating together.

 

[Sentinel]

V. Kharlamov - B. Mikhailov - A. Ovechkin

No centers

E. Malkin - P. Datsyuk - A. Maltsev

Three centers.

 

[Boxscore]

No centers. Three centers.

Ha. I would play Mikhailov at center. The dude could do anything. In his role on my "team", he would be in charge of shadowing the other team's center, intimidate and feed the puck to his winged snipers. He would thrive in this role.

 

[JaymzB]

My lineups......

Montreal Canadiens

D. Moore - J. Beliveau - M. Richard
A. Joliat - H. Morenz - G. Lafleur
S. Shutt - N. Lalonde - T. Blake
B. Gainey - H. Richard - Y. Cournoyer
E. Lach

D. Harvey - L. Robinson
G. Lapointe - S. Savard
Chelios - J. Laperriere
Geoffrion

P. Roy
J. Plante
K. Dryden


Russia/USSR

V. Krutov - I. Larionov - S. Makarov
A. Mogilny - S. Fedorov - P. Bure
V. Kharlamov - B. Mikhailov - A. Ovechkin
E. Malkin - P. Datsyuk - A. Maltsev
V. Petrov

V. Fetisov - A. Kasatonov
V. Vasiliev - S. Zubov
S. Gonchar - A. Ragulin
V. Konstantinov

V. Tretiak
E. Nabokov
N. Khabibulin

Believe it or not but I think Russia wins the series based on chemistry. The top 2 lines are world-class, proven talent with innate experience dominating together.

Some issues with your Habs team:

-Blake is a left winger.
-Geoffrion is a RW, not a defenseman.
-Unless you’re going for a “shutdown line”, Gainey shouldn’t be on the team. If you are going for a shutdown line, Provost should be the RW.
-If chemistry is an issue, then you can move players around a bit to create actual combos/lines that played together.

Try this:

Moore-Beliveau-Geoffrion
Blake-Lach-Richard
Joliat-Morenz-Cournoyer
Shutt-Richard-Lafleur
Lalonde

Harvey-Lapointe
Savard-Robinson
Chelios-Cleghorn
Laperriere

Plante
Roy
Dryden

 

[VMBM]

Ha. I would play Mikhailov at center. The dude could do anything. In his role on my "team", he would be in charge of shadowing the other team's center, intimidate and feed the puck to his winged snipers. He would thrive in this role.

Firstly, Mikhailov couldn't win a faceoff to save his life! If ever Petrov was unable, it was Kharlamov who took & and sometimes even won faceoffs. Mikhailov, I bet he lost 100-0 all the faceoffs he ever was involved in (at least he did the few I've seen).

In a way, Mikhailov was the Soviet Bobby Clarke ('instigator'), but IMO would be too valuable as a goal-scorer/slot man to be used in other roles.

I don't see any reason to break up the Mikhailov-Petrov-Kharlamov line. But it's "your team" of course.

 

[Boxscore]

I don't see any reason to break up the Mikhailov-Petrov-Kharlamov line. But it's "your team" of course.

I just hired you as my assistant coach. We'll discuss line match ups further in the coaches office.... can't tip our hand in a public forum.

 

[Sentinel]

No kidding Mikhailov couldn't win faceoffs! He was also great along the boards. Not exactly a center quality. The only thing he had that would make him a center was his passing and his vision, but he was a much, much better winger than he would ever be a center. But, of course every Soviet coach, from Tarasov to Tikhonov, was wrong, and Mikhailov could well play center. Sheesh...

 

[VMBM]

I just hired you as my assistant coach. We'll discuss line match ups further in the coaches office.... can't tip our hand in a public forum.

No kidding Mikhailov couldn't win faceoffs! He was also great along the boards. Not exactly a center quality. The only thing he had that would make him a center was his passing and his vision, but he was a much, much better winger than he would ever be a center. But, of course every Soviet coach, from Tarasov to Tikhonov, was wrong, and Mikhailov could well play center. Sheesh...

Yes, I don't remember a single tournament/game where he would've been in that role - if we exclude crappy Hollywood films (*cough* Miracle! *cough*). Heck, even Kharlamov played center in the 1976 World Championships - or at least he started off as the faceoff man on the forward line with Mikhailov and Maltsev:

 

[Den]

Just saw a couple of Dynamo Moscow and Dynamo Riga vs NHL games in the 80's... Gees, they had talent. Svetlov was amazing. And most of that generation went down the drain after their early-mid 20 eather having to survive the 90's or sucumbing to the pains of adjusting in NA. These players had no business of playing in NA IMHO - many of them of smaller size (Znarok, Borshevsky), absolutely not their style. Tatarinov was such a promise - a then ushh, injuries -> wild 90's -> murdur -> prison. Petrenko, Semenov, Lomakin, Semak - if they all continued to play in "normal conditions", they could have been big players in the 90's. They had no business of going over the pond at the age of 27...

 

[Elvis P]

1. Viacheslav Fetisov

2. Vladislav Tretiak

3. Valery Kharlamov

4. Anatoly Firsov

5. Alexander Maltsev

6. Sergei Fedorov

7. Valery Vasiliev

8 Vsevolod Bobrov

9. Sergei Makarov

10. Pavel Bure

http://www.1972summitseries.com/toptenrussians.html

If you were drafting the Team Russia Dream Team, is this the first 10 players you would take? TDMM?

 

[Copmuter*]

Here's a look at the teams...

Montreal
D. Moore - J. Beliveau - M. Richard
A. Joliat - H. Morenz - G. Lafleur
T. Blake - N. Lalonde - B. Geoffrion
B. Gainey - H. Richard - Y. Cournoyer
E. Lach

D. Harvey - L. Robinson
G. Lapointe - S. Savard
J.C. Tremblay - J. Laperriere
B. Bouchard

P. Roy
J. Plante
K. Dryden


Russia/USSR
V. Kharlamov - S. Fedorov - B. Mikhailov
A. Ovechkin - I. Larionov - S. Makarov
V. Krutov - A. Maltsev - P. Bure
E. Malkin - P. Datsyuk - I. Kovalchuk
V. Petrov

V. Fetisov - A. Kasatonov
V. Vasiliev - S. Zubov
V. Lutchenko - A. Ragulin
S. Gonchar

V. Tretiak
E. Nabokov
N. Khabibulin


I'm sure some will disagree with the lineups I used, but it gives you a general idea. Regardless of any changes one might make, it seems pretty clear that Team Montreal is the better of the two.

Since this is just a fantasy exercise, let's assume all players are in their prime...

Denis Savard, John LeClair and Chris Chelios would be on Montreal

Konstantinov, Mogilny and Kovalev should likely find their way onto the Russian squad

 

[Thenameless]

Yakushev was a bit like Shane Doan and Ryan Smyth. He wasn't really that great in his league play, but he had an ability to turn it on for international competition. He'd be good for this game.

 

[Killion]

Nice work Gang. All I can say is any number of these line~ups, make for an incredible game or preferably fully 7 Game Series!.

 

[Sadekuuro]

I would play Fedorov on defense.

Me too. That's a winning move. But I wonder how many non-Red Wings fans would agree...

 

[Ursaguy]

Howie Morenz and Guy LaFleur would be 2nd liners. Seems like Montreal is an easy choice here. Tretiak could easily steala game or 2, but I think 5-2-1 seems like an accurate call.

 

[Johnny Engine]

Kasparaitis, Konstantinov, Mogilny, Nabokov do not belong on this team. Ovy and Malkin do not yet.

Quite right about the first four.

Malkin and Ovechkin, however, are both 28 years old. Vladimir Krutov had his last useful season at 29. Kharlamov at 32. Is that really the difference between playing on the top line, and not making the team?

 

[kmad]

I think people might be over-romanticizing the old time Soviets. To suggest Ovechkin doesn't belong on a four-line team is ridiculous. He's close to overtaking Makarov.

 

[RorschachWJK]

Team Soviet would take the series. The chemistry of those lines would simply be too much to contain.

 

[plusandminus]

Messier completely dominated Larionov head to head.

I won't get into the rest

Larionov was injured in those games and clearly played under his normal standard. One should not compare the two based on those games.

I'd say Gretzky was the dominant forward on the ice during those games, followed by Krutov and Makarov. A young Mario Lemieux was good in that he scored many goals. Messier was OK, as was Gilmour, but the Soviets had equally good forwards in Semenov, Bykov and Khomutov.