Montreal Canadiens all time greatest d-men list (past and present)

[JoelWarlord]

Don't forget Janne Niiinimaa.

 

[Price My Man Crush]

Don't forget Janne Niiinimaa.

What did you say you little ****?!

Lolol.

 

[deandebean]

Harvey because he was the first defenceman ever to carry the puck into the offensive zone. Larry was the best because he could also fight. And was feared.

 

[digmor crusher]

Subban, maybe in top 10, a long way to go before he even approaches top 5. coolasprice, you gotta be under 30 if you think Subban is the best you've ever seen. You will learn my son.

 

[Born in 1909]

I would go Harvey then Robinson. Subban around 8th best, around Lapointe, JC Tremblay territory. If he continues like this and don't fall off.

The thing about PK is his serious athleticism....

and star power.

 

[macavoy]

I'd say Robinson for me was the best in my lifetime (Habs Defenseman). Followed by Lapointe, and Serge Savard. I would have loved to see more of Savard before his injury. I've been told that he was even better than Robinson.

All jokes aside, I was also told that Savard was better than Robinson.

 

[InglewoodJack]

Subban and Markov somewhere 15-20.

 

[mrinsane]

Markov deserve a place and Big Bird was awesome

Habs had many good guy in the back

 

[FerrisRox]

Of course, but the players of a 6 team league were not even exposed to competition from Europe, and with limited scouting capabilities were not even necessarily the best players of the day, let alone all time.

The accounts of people like Dick Irvin and Red Fisher account for a lot but I think that generation tends to be overly nostalgic about the 6 team league and players in general. It keeps them relevant in a way. There's not enough good game footage for the rest of us to decide on 50's players.

Since I've been watching the game, Robinson is one of the most dynamic players I've ever seen in any jersey. He could play hard nosed defence, lay bone crushing checks, beat you on an end to end rush or beat the snot out of you , all basically at his will.

PK can be top level like Robinson, it will be hard to achieve but he could do it . The only thing PK doesn't have is that imposing size and intimidation but he's got unparalleled skating.

Harvey is all about assembling opinion from other people's accounts, from a day gone by in an era of questionable hockey quality.

IMHO

Even if you took out all of the European players in the NHL, can you imagine the talent level of the league if you contracted 24 franchises?

There were only 36 defensemen in the *entire* NHL. Scouting wasn't as extensive as it is today, only because today they are scouting in Slovakia, Switzerland and elsewhere in Europe. There were other profefssional leagues and it was pretty easy to find out where the top players were. You can pretend that there were players better than their NHL counterpart that simply weren't discovered due to scouting issues but it's simply not true. The only time there were players good enough to play the NHL that weren't was because the player elected to play in a different minor-pro league for whatever reason, not because of a scouting issue. And this was very rare, and usually only happened for a season or two before they were lured to the National Hockey League.

Doug Harvey revolutionized the position. He was Bobby Orr before Bobby Orr. When Orr first arrived on the scene, people marveled that he was Doug Harvey with the toughness and grit of a guy like Eddie Shore. Harvey's talent was immense and his skill-set was simply never seen before from a defenseman. The guy was a 7-time Norris Trophy winner, and despite serious issues with alcohol, he managed to to play in the league until he was 45 years old. I don't know where you got the idea that there isn't enough good footage from the 50's to comment on these players either. Book an afternoon at the Hockey Hall of Fame's resource library. They have tons and tons of footage from the era. The Hockey News ranked Harvey has the #6 best player of All-Time. You'd be better off showing more respect and less ignorance in this regard.

 

[FerrisRox]

All jokes aside, I was also told that Savard was better than Robinson.

I would say, in my personal opinion, you were misinformed.

That's taking nothing away from Serge Savard.

 

[coolasprICE]

Subban would blow the pants off of doug harvey.

Just because there was 6 teams doesn't mean that the quality of players were better. Training, off and on the ice, has come a very long way. There is no way that Harvey could beat Subban in terms of overall speed, shot, etc...

Now if Doug Harvey was 24 today and had access to the same training Subban has profited from, than you can make a case that Harvey would have been better.

But that is speculative too. We will never know.


He was clearly ahead of his time... but just imagine Subban today playing in the 50's. It would like he was in fast forward mode.






To me this debate has to be between Larry and PK.

 

[googlymoogly]

I would say, in my personal opinion, you were misinformed.

That's taking nothing away from Serge Savard.

If not for Savard's injuries there is a chance he would of been one of the best Dman of all times. He had great speed but his broken ankles took a lot of his offensive skills away. He had to reinvent his D game to become a shut down style guy instead.

 

[JLP]

Subban would blow the pants off of doug harvey.

Just because there was 6 teams doesn't mean that the quality of players were better. Training, off and on the ice, has come a very long way. There is no way that Harvey could beat Subban in terms of overall speed, shot, etc...

Now if Doug Harvey was 24 today and had access to the same training Subban has profited from, than you can make a case that Harvey would have been better.

But that is speculative too. We will never know.

He was clearly ahead of his time... but just imagine Subban today playing in the 50's. It would like he was in fast forward mode.
...

To me this debate has to be between Larry and PK.

This.

IMHO if we time-machined Subban back to the 50s he would barrel end to end and the guys on the bench would drop their cigarettes in awe. If we look at hockey's three fundamentals, "skating and shooting," Subban is far above anyone from that era. Today's players are fitter and the game is faster.

 

[thom]

Scotty Bowman yes that scotty had Savard ahead of Robinson is his lists of top 100 players both in hockey news and the hockey magazine.He coached both right.Scotty also had Brad Park ahead of Robinson.

 

[Tyrus]

This.

IMHO if we time-machined Subban back to the 50s he would barrel end to end and the guys on the bench would drop their cigarettes in awe. If we look at hockey's three fundamentals, "skating and shooting," Subban is far above anyone from that era. Today's players are fitter and the game is faster.

It's almost as if Subban had access to advanced training equipments and refined techniques since his young age or something!

 

[googlymoogly]

This.

IMHO if we time-machined Subban back to the 50s he would barrel end to end and the guys on the bench would drop their cigarettes in awe. If we look at hockey's three fundamentals, "skating and shooting," Subban is far above anyone from that era. Today's players are fitter and the game is faster.

I don't buy this. Sure today's players are fitter because of the exercise equipment they have but I can tell you the older generations were tougher. Those older generations were built like steel from working heavy factories and farms. Subban would also have to use 50s hockey gear he would be a lot slower with that equipment and he better not try fighting Harvey would knock him out cold.

You can take any sports and have the same issues. The gear quality is better so it is much easier to do. Look at mountain climbers, practically anyone can climb Everest today if you are physically fit enough but the first climbers had junk equipment compared to what today's sports enthusiast can use.

 

[coolasprICE]

I don't buy this. Sure today's players are fitter because of the exercise equipment they have but I can tell you the older generations were tougher. Those older generations were built like steel from working heavy factories and farms. Subban would also have to use 50s hockey gear he would be a lot slower with that equipment and he better not try fighting Harvey would knock him out cold.

You can take any sports and have the same issues. The gear quality is better so it is much easier to do. Look at mountain climbers, practically anyone can climb Everest today if you are physically fit enough but the first climbers had junk equipment compared to what today's sports enthusiast can use.

that's BS.

Older generations were just tougher because they grew up on farms and worked heavier factor jobs...LOL. I guess we forgot the part of Harvey's drinking problem too.

Subban of 2013 would smoke his pants off, even in 50's equipment.


The only objective case that can be made is that given the same training and equipment that PK has today, a 24 year old Harvey in 2013 would be superior.

 

[JLP]

It's almost as if Subban had access to advanced training equipments and refined techniques since his young age or something!

I don't buy this. Sure today's players are fitter because of the exercise equipment they have but I can tell you the older generations were tougher. Those older generations were built like steel from working heavy factories and farms. Subban would also have to use 50s hockey gear he would be a lot slower with that equipment and he better not try fighting Harvey would knock him out cold.

You can take any sports and have the same issues. The gear quality is better so it is much easier to do. Look at mountain climbers, practically anyone can climb Everest today if you are physically fit enough but the first climbers had junk equipment compared to what today's sports enthusiast can use.

It's more than today's advanced training equipment it's also lifestyle's effect on health. PK doesn't smoke a pack of no-filters every day and drink whiskey on the train after every game.

Agree Harvey would clean PK's clock in a fight.

 

[overlords]

It's more than today's advanced training equipment it's also lifestyle's effect on health. PK doesn't smoke a pack of no-filters every day and drink whiskey on the train after every game.

Agree Harvey would clean PK's clock in a fight.

If they actually threw punches, yeah. If Pk just wanted to rag doll him for a bit and then finish him off, he could. PK would overpower harvey pretty easily, imo.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

I would go Harvey then Robinson. Subban around 8th best, around Lapointe, JC Tremblay territory. If he continues like this and don't fall off.

If he continues like this and doesn't fall off he's easily number 3 and might actually challenge Robinson. Guy is 23 and already has a Norris.

I'd say he has a shot against Harvey but that would be sacrilege and if he does drop off the humiliation would just be too great.

I don't believe in hyping our own players and I think this board sometimes goes way overboard with the guys on our roster (Koivu and Markov for example) but Subban is the real deal. He's slowly but surely improved and proven it and is right now playing the best hockey of his career.

He absolutely could be third on this list by the time his career is over. I will not speak of him passing Robinson or Harvey until at least another few years have past but for now, I actually expect him to pass everyone else on that list.

Yeah, Lafleurs Guy hyped one of our own players as being HOF quality. Must be true.

It's more than today's advanced training equipment it's also lifestyle's effect on health. PK doesn't smoke a pack of no-filters every day and drink whiskey on the train after every game.

Agree Harvey would clean PK's clock in a fight.

Total nonsensical debate. Totally different eras.

As far as comparing today's players to the players of yesterday all we can really do is compare relative dominance against contemporaries. Only fair way to do it. Is PK a tough guy in this league? I'd say no but can hold his own. As for Harvey, I must admit I have no idea. But that's how they should be compared.

 

[Agnostic]

Even if you took out all of the European players in the NHL, can you imagine the talent level of the league if you contracted 24 franchises?

There were only 36 defensemen in the *entire* NHL. Scouting wasn't as extensive as it is today, only because today they are scouting in Slovakia, Switzerland and elsewhere in Europe. There were other profefssional leagues and it was pretty easy to find out where the top players were. You can pretend that there were players better than their NHL counterpart that simply weren't discovered due to scouting issues but it's simply not true. The only time there were players good enough to play the NHL that weren't was because the player elected to play in a different minor-pro league for whatever reason, not because of a scouting issue. And this was very rare, and usually only happened for a season or two before they were lured to the National Hockey League.

Doug Harvey revolutionized the position. He was Bobby Orr before Bobby Orr. When Orr first arrived on the scene, people marveled that he was Doug Harvey with the toughness and grit of a guy like Eddie Shore. Harvey's talent was immense and his skill-set was simply never seen before from a defenseman. The guy was a 7-time Norris Trophy winner, and despite serious issues with alcohol, he managed to to play in the league until he was 45 years old. I don't know where you got the idea that there isn't enough good footage from the 50's to comment on these players either. Book an afternoon at the Hockey Hall of Fame's resource library. They have tons and tons of footage from the era. The Hockey News ranked Harvey has the #6 best player of All-Time. You'd be better off showing more respect and less ignorance in this regard.

If you don't understand the issues of the iron curtain, the limitations of transportation and communication and it's effects on scouting and player recruiting, and the numerous issues that kept the NHL from being a super elite league prior to its popularizAtion, well it would fit well with your rather misinformed and condescending post. You'd be better off showing more respect and less ignorance in many regards .

 

[JAVO16]

This.

IMHO if we time-machined Subban back to the 50s he would barrel end to end and the guys on the bench would drop their cigarettes in awe. If we look at hockey's three fundamentals, "skating and shooting," Subban is far above anyone from that era. Today's players are fitter and the game is faster.

I chuckled.

 

[Tyson]

Doug Harvey easily the best Habs D of all time
Larry Robinson and Serge Savard are close seconds
Butch Bouchard another great D
Guy Lapointe one of the famous "big 3" still holds season record of 28 goals by a D
Chris Chelios
Andrei Markov
JC Tremblay (a favorite of my dad)

 

[sventington]

Tomas Kaberle. I am shocked it took 2 page for the right answer to come out.

And you guys call yourself Habs fans.

 

[Harry Wong]

IMO Tyson has a pretty good list. The trouble I have trying to rank these guys is that you are comparing guys from different eras and all you can really say about them is that they were the best in their time. The game changes so much. Having said that, the only addition I might add to this list near the bottom maybe, would be Rod Langway, another guy we traded away before he reached his true potential.