Montreal Canadiens all time greatest d-men list (past and present)

Discussion in 'Montreal Canadiens' started by coolasprICE, Oct 18, 2013.

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  1. coolasprICE

    coolasprICE Registered User

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    This is not another PK Subban thread, but watching him play, he is the best all time defenseman that I HAVE seen play for the CH.

    I know it's too early to crown him the champ, and if stanley cup rings mean anything to this discussion, he's far down the list (although 6 teams vs 30 changes that discussion).

    Things to consider:

    how many games/seasons does one player need to play to be crowned the best?

    does he need a cup ring to be titled the best?

    Or can we define the best as ''in their prime''?

    or the best ''individual season'', statistically speaking?

    or ''most championships''?

    or ''most consistent over x amount of years''


    What is your definition of all time greatest? And who would that be?


    Of course, maybe some of our really old and senile members can chime in to disagree with my pick ... ;)

    Here are a few names (am I missing anyone?)...

    Larry Robinson
    Doug Harvey
    Guy Lapointe
    Serge Savard
    Chris Chelios
    Eric Dejardins
    Jacques Laperriere
    Jean Guy Talbot
    Andrei Markov
    Emile Bouchard
    J.C. Tremblay
    Craig Ludwig
    Rod Langway
    Pierre Bouchard
    Mathieu Schneider

    and PK SUUUUUBBAAAAAAAN

    Edit: I just realized craig ludwig is on my list (I copied and pasted it from another site.. not sure why he would be there.. but maybe he's the best ''stay at home''? lol.)
     
  2. MXD

    MXD Original #4

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    Start from that list :

    http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=1029907


    You get these, in this order :


    2 2 Doug Harvey 5'11" 190 1924 1989 1947-1969 Canada
    9 19 Larry Robinson 6'3" 220 1951 1972-1992 Canada
    10 24 Chris Chelios 6'1" 190 1962 1983-2010 USA
    15 2 Sprague Cleghorn 5'10" 190 1890 1956 1910-1928 Canada
    28 18 Serge Savard 6'3" 210 1946 1966-1983 Canada
    29 5 Rod Langway 6'3" 218 1957 1977-1993 USA
    32 5 Guy Lapointe 6'0" 205 1948 1968-1984 Canada
    38 2 Jacques Laperrière 6'2" 190 1941 1962-1974 Canada
    40 3 Jean-Claude Tremblay 5'11 170 1939 1994 1960-1979 Canada
    45 3 Emile "Butch" Bouchard 6'2" 205 1919 1941-1956 Canada
    47 1 Albert "Babe" Siebert 5'10" 182 1904 1939 1925-1939 Canada
    51 17 Ken Reardon 5'10" 180 1921 2008 1940-1950 Canada
    52 10 Tom Johnson 6'0" 180 1928 2007 1950-1965 Canada
    56 2 Sylvio Mantha 5'10" 178 1902 1974 1923-1936 Canada

    Of that group, Chelios can be taken down a bit (played some 65% of his career out of Montreal), Langway can be taken down a lot (didn't have his best years here) and possibly completely out of this list, Tremblay can be taken down a bit as well (played quite a bit with the Nords in the WHA), same with Babe Siebert (one of very, very few players to win the Hart as a D-Men in Montreal), but he really only spent 2 or three seasons here before accepting the Head Coach job, only to die in the final days of summer vacation.
     
  3. s613s

    s613s Registered Sellsowrd

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    Ludwig was awesome. Not the most flashy nor the most offensive guy out there but he brought a lot to the team in amny other aspects , mostly defensive ability , physical play and toughness.

    I'm not sure i would put him on a GOAT list but its not like he was a scrub. He is Craig ****ing Ludwig !!! :yo:
     
  4. Agnostic

    Agnostic 11 Stanley Cups

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    Nobody beats Larry. Nobody.
     
  5. TatTar

    TatTar Registered User

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    I would go Harvey then Robinson. Subban around 8th best, around Lapointe, JC Tremblay territory. If he continues like this and don't fall off.
     
  6. JLP

    JLP Refugee

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    "All time greatest" doesn't really take into account the different styles and different roles defencemen play. So sorry but instead I'll suggest a dream set of pairings using all Habs who've played D.

    Robinson - Subban
    Harvey - Chelios
    Laperriere - Lapointe

    I think Lapointe is on his wrong side but I'm really old and senile ;)
     
  7. habsfanatics*

    habsfanatics* Registered User

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    Harvey does, easily.
     
  8. Shaby23

    Shaby23 Registered User

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    And you know what is crazy in all this? He's just 24. So that means PK is not even in his prime right now.

    Gonna be exciting to watch him in the next 4-5 years.
     
  9. LeBlondeDemon10

    LeBlondeDemon10 BlindLemon Haystacks

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    Savard is 3rd or 4rth no question.
     
  10. thom

    thom Registered User

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    If Pk continues this paste for next 5yrs and has no set backs.He will be in top 5 and possibly top 3.I believe only canadiens to win 2 or more norris excluding Languay and Chelious are Harvey and Robinson.And if pk continues at this paste pk will will another and hes under 25 yrs old.But there are other factors not just awards.In long run does he want to remain a hab or play for another city.His relationship with teamates is it strong and rosy.Lets say he wins 2nd norris well his agent will ask between 6.5 mill and 8.Will molson pay that and how much price will ask Im mean if he wins vezina.
     
  11. Agnostic

    Agnostic 11 Stanley Cups

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    50's Habs versus 70's Habs the 50's Habs would not even touch the puck.
     
  12. overlords

    overlords #FakeBlous

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    Same thing could be said about athletes from today putting stars from the 70's on their *****. Doesn't mean they're better. Relative to his own era, Harvey > Robinson.
     
  13. BlackStar

    BlackStar Registered User

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    This is not another PK Subban thread, instead, it is another PK Subban thread. :sarcasm:
     
  14. Beendair Donedat

    Beendair Donedat Registered User

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    Robinson for me. Maybe the best all around defenseman I've ever watched. Could hit, score, skate, pass and fight. Great in all zones and a feared competitor. Robinson could do everything well.
     
  15. Agnostic

    Agnostic 11 Stanley Cups

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    Of course, but the players of a 6 team league were not even exposed to competition from Europe, and with limited scouting capabilities were not even necessarily the best players of the day, let alone all time.

    The accounts of people like Dick Irvin and Red Fisher account for a lot but I think that generation tends to be overly nostalgic about the 6 team league and players in general. It keeps them relevant in a way. There's not enough good game footage for the rest of us to decide on 50's players.

    Since I've been watching the game, Robinson is one of the most dynamic players I've ever seen in any jersey. He could play hard nosed defence, lay bone crushing checks, beat you on an end to end rush or beat the snot out of you , all basically at his will.

    PK can be top level like Robinson, it will be hard to achieve but he could do it . The only thing PK doesn't have is that imposing size and intimidation but he's got unparalleled skating.

    Harvey is all about assembling opinion from other people's accounts, from a day gone by in an era of questionable hockey quality.

    IMHO
     
  16. FlyingKostitsyn

    FlyingKostitsyn Registered User

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    Yeah I agree, watching old time games Harvey looks like he's from a totally different era compared to the pilons playing defensemen at the time. He was unbeliavably good. Henri Richard and Jacques Plante gave me that same impression.
     
  17. Lshap

    Lshap Hardline Moderate

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    I hate people who express my opinion better than I ever could. Perfect!

    I will add, however, that as much as Robinson was the most dominance and skill I've ever seen packed into one Habs Dman, Subban is in 2nd place and still developing. Exciting times!
     
  18. Agnostic

    Agnostic 11 Stanley Cups

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    Indeed. As you I am extremely excited about PK and so are a lot of people. That's why they get twitchy about contract negotiations and perceived disrespect by the coach. All magnified mind you, but for the reason that this is a special player.

    Robinson is also the cautionary tale about how not to treat a loyal superstar athlete. He was jerked around by Montreal at the end of his career and it resulted in a 20 year chasm between Larry and the organization. That's never been fully repaired and I would be disappointed if Markov or PK should receive this treatment.
     
  19. Steve Shutt

    Steve Shutt Don't Poke the Bear

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    Where's Lyle Odelein?
     
  20. Habs10Habs

    Habs10Habs Retired

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    I'd say Robinson for me was the best in my lifetime (Habs Defenseman). Followed by Lapointe, and Serge Savard. I would have loved to see more of Savard before his injury. I've been told that he was even better than Robinson.
     
  21. coolasprICE

    coolasprICE Registered User

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    I guess I need to watch larry play in his prime. only saw him at the end of his career and was too young to maybe appreciate his declining skills.

    my fanboy in me wants to say that subban has the most superstar qualities this team has seen on defense ever.. and since roy and lafleur in any position.
     
  22. Habs10Habs

    Habs10Habs Retired

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    There's never been a big defenseman that could move quite like Robinson. I wish a lot of our younger fans could have seen him in his prime. I can't even think of a comparison in today's game. There was no one like Larry.

    I'll agree with you about Subban. He has the potential to be the best Habs D-man IMO. But he's not there yet.

    I think I saw him mowing my lawn earlier. lol :sarcasm:
     
  23. Jay Wolf

    Jay Wolf Registered User

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    I'm too young to have seen him play, but I'm told Doug Harvey revolutionized the position and Orr perfected it. So based on that, I'm obliged to go with Harvey, but Larry was the best blue-liner I've ever seen in a Habs jersey....


    ...not from Rexdale.
     
  24. Megaforce

    Megaforce Registered User

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    Robinson was otherworldly. Amazing in his prime. Even scored 19 goals at age 35 if I recall correctly.

    Langway wasn't a Hab during his best years, so I'd remove him from the list.

    And I'd put Subban very high up there.
     
  25. Halifaxhab*

    Halifaxhab* Guest

    You can't have an alltime list without Cleghorn.
     

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