MLD 2011 Draft Thread II

[Dwight]

Awesome Express will round out our lineup by picking Dustin Brown, W

 

[Dreakmur]

pappyline in the past painted Watson as a no-talent thug whose sole purpose was to illegally rough up Hull in the finals once. While the latter part is probably true, I think it cloured pappy's overall view of Watson a little too negatively. Watson actually averaged 20.80 minutes per game, although for crappy teams. That's not what I'd call special or significant, but you can do a ton worse than Watson. Considering he spent a lot of time in the box, he was relied on a decent amount and was clearly not "just" a thug. He was in my top-10 for defensemen heading into the AAA.

He was definately a thug, but he was also definately more than that. Based on goals for and against, he was a top-2 defenseman twice, top-3 four times, and top-4 another four times. Even on weak teams, you don't spend 10 straight years as a top-4 guy unless you can play.

20.8 minutes per gams is actually pretty good considering he spent over 2.5 minutes of each game in the box

 

[seventieslord]

He was definately a thug, but he was also definately more than that. Based on goals for and against, he was a top-2 defenseman twice, top-3 four times, and top-4 another four times. Even on weak teams, you don't spend 10 straight years as a top-4 guy unless you can play.

20.8 minutes per gams is actually pretty good considering he spent over 2.5 minutes of each game in the box

Well yeah, that's what I'm trying to say.

as for his total TOI/GP rankings, here's what I have:

1969: 5th
1970: 3rd
1971: 6th
1972: 3rd
1973: 4th
1974: 5th
1975: 4th
1976: 3rd
1977: 5th
1978: 3rd

(you're probably adding up total GF and GA and ignoring the "per game" aspect of it, or, ignoring players who came and went throughout the year, or, not considering situational play, of which Watson had a lot of, particularly on the PK, where goals would be more concentrated per minute, inflating his apparent icetime. the TOI sheet I use accounts for all of the above, so these figures should be accurate - never top-2, but top-4 six times - not that that is terrible, even a guy like Bob Rouse was only top-3 in total TOI five times, and Brad Marsh three times)

But it is mitigated by the fact he played for crap teams too. (among 655 post expansion players with 700+ games, he is 3rd-last in team GF/GA ratio, 0.76, worst among defensemen, 2nd is Visnovsky at 0.81) - so if anyone was on teams just dying to give icetime to a decent player, it was Watson. Still, crappy players don't last for that many games for that many minutes. All I was trying to point out is that it's not the same thing as playing 20 minutes a game for good, or even average teams.

 

[Stoneberg]

Sleepwatchers select Ron Schock, C.

 

[seventieslord]

Sleepwatchers select Ron Schock, C.

my favourite checking center remaining.

best percentage seasons: 72 52 50 49 47 43

compare to Tim Young: 78 59 50 47 44 43

He's also much, much more renowned as a defensive player/checker as Young. Also, he's a 4-year captain. Terrible playoff record, though, and Young's is pretty good. It's debatable whether Young is even better, and even if he is, you got Schock a good 200 picks later.

 

[seventieslord]

Iain: Under the "ATD Freedom Of Information Act of 2011", I would like to ask that you share your files that show how many games these early players played at each position. You have been immensely useful in your first MLD and this part has been what I've enjoyed the most in particular.

 

[Iain Fyffe]

Some bios for half of my missing players:


Mats Ahlberg, C/LW

Ahlberg was a very consistent, goal-scoring centre for a decade in Sweden. Given his tendencies he will play wing for the Shamrocks.

In domestic play, he was named to Swedish All-Star teams four times, in 1973, 1974, 1975 and 1977. He led the country in scoring in 1973, 1974 and 1977 (when he competed against kent Nilsson and Ole Brasar among others), and was second twice in 1975 and 1979 (behind Anders Kallur). He led in goals once, and was second twice.

From 1970/71 to 1979/80, he was outside the top five in scoring only once (in 1976), and that one time he finished sixth.

In international play, Ahlberg represented his country at the 1972 and 1980 Olympics (winning a bronze medal), the 1976 Canada Cup, and at six World Championships from 1973 to 1978. In 60 games at the World Championships, he scored 31 goals and 62 points.

He led Sweden in scoring twice at the WC, including 17 points in 10 games in 1974, finishing third and was the only player among the top 6 who was not a Soviet. He was one assist behind Vladimir Petrov for the tournament lead. At the 1980 Olympics, he tied for the team scoring lead with Mats Naslund at 10 points.


Fred Hucul, LD

Fred Hucul was an offensive defenceman who played the majority of his career in the independent WHL in the Original Six era. He was named to eight post-season All-Star Team in the WHL. From 1954/55 to 1965/66, Hucul led WHL defencemen in scoring seven times, was second once and third twice.

Defenceman Fred Hucul spent parts of four seasons with the Chicago Black Hawks in the 50s. He was a fine playmaker who could be dangerous on the power play and take the body in his own zone.

Beginning in 1954-55, Hucul played eight of the next nine seasons with the Calgary Stampeders of the WHL. He was a top offensive defenceman in the league and was placed on the first all-star team four times and the second team twice. Prior to the 1967-68 season, the veteran rearguard was picked by the St. Louis Blues in the Expansion Draft. He provided stability on the team's blueline in 43 games then retired two games into the next season when he was with the CHL's Kansas City Blues.

This demonstrates he was more than simply a source of offence. He provided stability to an NHL defensive unit, and did not shy away from physical play.

Hucul played one full NHL season before his long stretch in the WHL, in 1952/53 with Chicago. At only 20 years old, he was the youngest blueliner on the team but still took a regular turn, and despite missing 13 games he tied for the team lead in goals by a defenceman with 5. It was a very low-scoring era for blueliners; only Red Kelly scored more than 8 goals that year. Doug Harvey had 4.

Stampeder captain Fred Hucul beat two defenders at the blueline to keep the puck in the Canuck zone, then slid it over to [undrafted] who fired it off the inside of the post...

Hugh Currie, RD

Although known mostly as a longtime captain and sometimes a playing coach in the minor leagues during the Original Six era, Hugh Currie actually set the AHL record for assists by a defenceman (which has since been broken) when he racked up 56 helpers in only 57 games in 1950/51. He was fifth in the league is assists that season, and unsurprisingly led all blueliners in scoring that season. That was his best offensive season, though he did finish third among defencemen in his league in 1956/57 and 1962/63, and was top-5 three other times.

Currie was named to the All-Star Team three times in the WHL, once in the AHL and once in the EHL. Playing in the Montreal system before moving to the WHL, there was little room for him on the big-league club, with minutes being eaten up by players like Doug Harvey, Butch Bouchard, Glen Harmon, Tom Johnson and Ken Reardon.

Right now, Canucks are depending on Hugh to carry them past Seattle. Never one to rock or sock an opponent, Currie's forte is a sweeping poke check.

During his short previous reign as Vancouver [player-]coach, Currie provided the spark Canucks had lacked all season while floundering around on the bottom rungs of the league ladder. When he left for Buffalo and was replaced temporarily by [undrafted], the flame went out.

Canuck captain Hugh Currie's two goals in the first period were enough to win it. Both came on screen shots when Stamps were a man short...Currie's but chance for a hat trick came with two minutes, 30 seconds left. He stole the puck from [undrafted] at the Vancouver blueline and went in all alone.

Another large contributing factor in the cause was reliable Hugh Currie. Although held pointless, Currie's defensive display was tops and today is performing better than at any time since first joining the Canucks back in 1952.

Joe Power, LW/D

Joe Power was a big-time goal-scorer who had sufficient defensive chops to be moved to cover-point midway through his career. He was known for his humour and wit, which will help keep the dressing room loose.

In his first full season in 1904, Power played LW for Quebec and finished second on the team in goals (behind should-be Hall-of-Famer Herb Jordan), and was second among league left wings in goals (behind Hall-of-Famer Blair Russel). Quebec were league champions in 1904, and Power was their captain.

In 1905, Power moved to rover, and exploded with 22 goals which total was exceeded by only one man: Hall-of-Famer Russell Bowie, the best goal-scorer of his generation. In 1906, Power again outscored teammate Herb Jordan with 21 markers, and tied for fourth in the league in goals, this time behind Harry Smith, Russell Bowie and Frank McGee, probably the three best goal-scorers of the generation.

Power switched to cover-point the following season, and in 1908 he scored 13 goals in 10 games at the position, a figure which was ninth in the league, but first among defencemen. For comparison, Cyclone Taylor and Didier Pitre both played 10 games at cover-point in the same league; Taylor scored 9 goals and Pitre scored but 3.

After another full season in 1909, Power played only a few more games before calling it a career. In 1913, he revealed that he had retired from the game due to suffering from pleurisy, an inflammation of the lungs which makes breathing painful. He later served in the Parliament of Quebec.


Dr. Jerry Laflamme, Defence/Centre/Captain/Team Dentist

Jerry Laflamme was a fixture in the senior OHA scene for over a decade (1909/10 to 1920/21), always serving as his team's captain. He captained the St. Michael's squad to the Allan Cup in 1910 (his first year in senior hockey), and did the same for the Toronto Dentals in 1917. Playing centre for the first half of his career and defence for the second, Laflamme was always noted for his speed, knowledge of the game and leadership.

He led the OHA in goals in 1911/12, playing on a team with Hall of Famers Frank Rankin and Frank Foyston. He played for six different senior OHA clubs, which compiled a combined record of 55-19-1 when he was a regular. He was later an NHL referee, and was a coach of the Montreal Maroons for one season.

He is a dental student, and no centre in Canada understands the scoring game better than “Jerryâ€. He is fast, as quick as a flash, carries his forwards with him in passing rushes, and is always watchful until something happens.

For the match tomorrow night the Torontos will be greatly strengthened by the services of Jerry Laflamme at centre. He is conceded to be one of the fastest forwards in the OHA...

Jerry Laflamme is made of the real stuff. He started out with a very sore leg...and before the first half ended he fell on [an opponent's] skate and opened a nasty gash over his eye. It took five stitches to close the cut, and Jerry gamely went into the fray in the second half. It failed to slow him up one bit.

 

[BillyShoe1721]

With my final pick, I'll select D Hal Laycoe

Reversing his numbers the next year, the rangy rearguard spent only 10 games in Buffalo and the bulk of the season with the Canadiens as injuries limited Bouchard to only 27 regular season games.

The stay-at-home defenseman who could take a hit, dish one out and competently move the puck to his forwards, based his game on solid positional play. Thriving in his role of countering oncoming attackers effectively but unspectacularly, Laycoe rarely exceeded the rules of the game, only once collecting more than 30 penalty minutes as a Hab.

Traded to Boston towards the end of the 1950-51 campaign, Laycoe spent the next five seasons patrolling the Bruins’ blue line where the man who was also The Rocket’s occasional tennis partner while with the Habs, Nonetheless, he helped spark the infamous Richard Riot in 1955, with Laycoe being the player Richard would strike on his way to being suspended a few days later.

http://ourhistory.canadiens.com/player/Hal-Laycoe

Defenceman Hal Laycoe played over 500 NHL games in the 1940s and '50s. He was a solid positional player who took the body well and moved the puck up to his forwards with efficiency.

Born in Sutherland, Saskatchewan, Laycoe played senior hockey in Saskatoon with the Dodgers and Quakers. During World War II, he skated with the Canadian Postal Corps as well as the Toronto and Winnipeg Navy units. He turned pro in 1945-46 by playing 17 games with the New York Rangers and starring on the blueline of the New York Rovers of the EHL. Following the season he was named to the EHL's second all-star team.

Laycoe was a solid regular in 58 games for the Blueshirts in 1946-47 before he was traded to the Montreal Canadiens in the off-season. He was a semi-regular in Montreal but also saw extensive ice time in the AHL with the Buffalo Bisons. In February 1951, he found an NHL home when he was traded to the Boston Bruins for Ross Lowe. Laycoe solidified the Boston defensive troops through the 1955-56 season and helped the club reach the finals in 1953.

http://www.legendsofhockey.net/LegendsOfHockey/jsp/SearchPlayer.jsp?player=13335

In the first period, Hal Laycoe administered a hard check to Richard, and was given a penalty for charging.

http://www.google.com/search?q=hal+...gc.r_pw.&fp=706b5439c95ea5a9&biw=1366&bih=638

Hal Laycoe, bespectacled defenseman, last night sparked Boston Bruins to a 4-1 decision over Montreal Canadiens...

In addition to setting up the third Boston goal for Eddie Sandford, Laycoe turned in a sensational defensive performance before the Bruins pulled into a 1-0 lead.

http://news.google.com/newspapers?i...NAAAAIBAJ&pg=3480,3927625&dq=hal+laycoe&hl=en

 

[Iain Fyffe]

Iain: Under the "ATD Freedom Of Information Act of 2011", I would like to ask that you share your files that show how many games these early players played at each position. You have been immensely useful in your first MLD and this part has been what I've enjoyed the most in particular.

It is one of the greatest problem with historical stats: so many people compiling the numbers didn't care too much about that kind of detail. It's illustrated in the fact that position is typically grouped with a player's biographical details rather than the seasonal stats, which ignores the fact that many players changed positions fairly often. Joe Hall probably played every forward position at some point, then point and cover-point before playing defence. Yet his position is listed as "defence".

As for disseminating the information I do have in an organized manner, it will be done at some point.

 

[BillyShoe1721]

Joe Daley bio:

http://hfboards.com/showpost.php?p=35575853&postcount=375

Red Berenson bio:

http://hfboards.com/showpost.php?p=35576249&postcount=376

Hal Laycoe bio:

http://hfboards.com/showpost.php?p=35638725&postcount=458

Alexander Uvarov bio:

http://hfboards.com/showpost.php?p=35640569&postcount=138

 

[BenchBrawl]

Montreal Bad Habits select a good 2-way and PK unit player Tomas Plekanec C

 

[Velociraptor]

I'd say we vote All-Star teams this weekend, and vote divisional results Wednesday.

 

[RustyRazor]

my favourite checking center remaining.

best percentage seasons: 72 52 50 49 47 43

compare to Tim Young: 78 59 50 47 44 43

He's also much, much more renowned as a defensive player/checker as Young. Also, he's a 4-year captain. Terrible playoff record, though, and Young's is pretty good. It's debatable whether Young is even better, and even if he is, you got Schock a good 200 picks later.

Got it, you don't like Tim Young. Actually, I got that before when you excoriated the pick. I agree that I reached for him, but I didn't draft him as a checking line player and I don't believe he was ever really described to be such. Similarly, given his skill set, would Schock be an appropriate choice to center a second line, as I eventually slotted Young?

 

[seventieslord]

I'd say we vote All-Star teams this weekend, and vote divisional results Wednesday.

Let's give it a bit longer. It's already Wednesday night, so 2-3 days before we vote seems really short. I've got the timing worked out so that we can be efficient and still have it almost 100% wrapped up by the time I leave for England.

Got it, you don't like Tim Young. Actually, I got that before when you excoriated the pick. I agree that I reached for him, but I didn't draft him as a checking line player and I don't believe he was ever really described to be such. Similarly, given his skill set, would Schock be an appropriate choice to center a second line, as I eventually slotted Young?

Hey, please don't think I'm ragging on you personally. (yeah, Young was a rookie mistake but that's par for the course, check out my first MLD team, MLD8) My whole point was that Shock was a pretty good player. Although he was drafted late and as a checker, I compared him to a player drafted much long ago as a scorer, to demonstrate that he almost measures up in terms of his proven offensive output. I'm sorry that had to be Young.

Young does seem to keep getting picked too early in relation to his credentials, I wonder if that can be traced back to when VI selected him in MLD7, as VI was a very good, but not infallible GM who a lot of GMs, myself included, tried to emulate. But that's neither here nor there.

No, I'd definitely prefer not to use Schock as a scoring line player, his offensive credentials are not quite there. If he was with two pure goalscoring wingers who needed a defensive conscience, I suppose it would be plausible. Or, if it was the AAA draft with all the Zhamnovs and Boldirevs and Allisons gone, then Schock would suddenly look like a pretty good offensive option, as would Young.

excoriated... good word!

 

[seventieslord]

Regina's last pick is Dick Todd, Assistant Coach

Todd was never a head coach in the NHL, but his resume includes an excellent .647 winning percentage in 938 games of junior hockey. During this time he was coach of the year once, and went to the OHL finals five times, three times winning the right to go to the Memorial Cup finals. Todd's Petes never won the big prize, but they were finalists to SSM in 1993.

just as importantly, Todd was an assistant coach with the NY Rangers for five years, beginning with the 1994 season, in which they won the Stanley Cup. The Rangers couldn't reach those heights again, but they did win four playoff rounds in the next three seasons.

Todd never won the biggest prize in junior (it's actually really difficult to win even once, with 60+ teams competing for it) but came closer more often than most and has a very good record of success as a head coach. Between he and Bun Cook, there's more than enough success at two levels of hockey. Furthermore, he has five years of experience as a successful NHL assistant.

 

[tony d]

I have a new bio up on Buzz Boll in the bio section.

 

[TheJudge]

I'll use my last pick on:

C Jim McFadden

Jim will serve as a reserve capable of playing in our top 9.

Calder Trophy (1948)
All-Star Game (1950)

From Legends of Hockey:

Centre Jim McFadden was a clever offensive player who played over 400 games in the 1940s and '50s. He also put up impressive numbers in the minors and senior hockey circles.
Born in Belfast, Ireland, McFadden played two years with the PCHL's Portland Buckaroos then spent the 1941-42 season with the Montreal Canadiens of the Quebec Senior League. During World War II, he skated for three years with the Winnipeg Army the rejoined the Quebec league with the Ottawa Senators.

After averaging over a point per game for the AHL's Buffalo Bisons in 1946-47, McFadden joined the Detroit Red Wings for their semi-final playoff loss to the Toronto Maple Leafs. The next year he scored 24 goals and was presented the Calder trophy as the league's top rookie.

The clever pivot was a consistent performer on the Wings in the late '40s and contributed five points when the team won the Stanley Cup in 1950. During this time, he often formed a solid partnership with Marty Pavelich and Jimmy Peters. Prior to the 1951-52 season, he was traded to the Chicago Black Hawks. In 1952-53, he combined with his linemates to score 23 goals and help the club battle the Montreal Canadiens in a hard fought semi-final series. McFadden played briefly in 1953-54 and played the last three and a half years of his career in the minors with the WHL's Calgary Stampeders before retiring in 1957.

 

[jkrx]

The Detroit Red Wings selects: Larry Zeidel, D

 

[seventieslord]

I considered Zeidel all the way through the AA, A, and B drafts last year. Coundn't quite beat out the other guys I chose. I respect how long he played, and his sometimes vicious style of play, and the passion he had for the game (the way he sold himself to the expansion teams in 1967 for example!) but the fact that he was not a great minor leaguer proved to be the sticking point. If there was some all-star teams on his resume, then that would be, to me, conclusive evidence that he was simply caught up in the numbers game of the O6 and may have been the 20th-30th-best defenseman in the world for an extended period, but that doesn't seem to be the case. Still, as a hired goon... not bad. I wonder what his career would look like if he was approaching 25 when expansion came, and not 40.

 

[BenchBrawl]

is there any way Plekanec is better than Langkow?

It's hard to prove on paper but when I see both I feel it's just obvious.

Plekanec is the top PK forward for Montreal while being a middle-of-the-pack first line center.

 

[BillyShoe1721]

is there any way Plekanec is better than Langkow?

It's hard to prove on paper but when I see both I feel it's just obvious.

Plekanec is the top PK forward for Montreal while being a middle-of-the-pack first line center.

Langkow's adjusted PPG is .6804, and Plekanec's is .6936, but Langkow has done it for over twice as long, so I'd say Langkow is better offensively in this context due to longevity. I'm not going to run their SH TOI/G ranks, but that would give you another piece to the puzzle in figuring out who is better. My guess is that Langkow would still come out as a better player due to longevity.

 

[seventieslord]

Langkow's adjusted PPG is .6804, and Plekanec's is .6936, but Langkow has done it for over twice as long, so I'd say Langkow is better offensively in this context due to longevity. I'm not going to run their SH TOI/G ranks, but that would give you another piece to the puzzle in figuring out who is better. My guess is that Langkow would still come out as a better player due to longevity.

Plekanec has been the best player on his line too, has he not?

When was Langkow last the best player on his line?

The reason I ask is, their PPG stats aren't apples to apples if one is benefitting from better linemates and the other is a benefactor.

With that said, Langkow's average has been maintained over a much longer time.

On the other hand, Plekanec's defensive reputation is "great". Langkow's is just "good"... then, that comes down to longevity again.

 

[BenchBrawl]

Plekanec has been the best player on his line too, has he not?

When was Langkow last the best player on his line?

The reason I ask is, their PPG stats aren't apples to apples if one is benefitting from better linemates and the other is a benefactor.

With that said, Langkow's average has been maintained over a much longer time.

On the other hand, Plekanec's defensive reputation is "great". Langkow's is just "good"... then, that comes down to longevity again.

Plekanec has been the best playero n his line except in 07-08 where Kovalev was clearly the best Montreal player , but he was still a very good player in his own right.He had a down year which can be attributed to the team basically shutting down and having an off year.

I'm seriously considering putting plekanec in the starting line-up.I think he also got screwed in his selke voting during his career , he clearly is a great defensive player , not to mention a dangerous one on the PK.

 

[BenchBrawl]

screw it , I will live or die with Plekanec on my 4th , I just love this player , can't be more honest than that on a hockey rink.

I changed Lapperriere for Knuble also , making my 4th line Jonathan-Plekanec-Knuble.

Any thoughts on that articular thing? Should I just put Plekanec with lappyand jonathan or add alittle bit of offense with knuble , which is exactly the type of player plekanec need.

 

[jkrx]

I considered Zeidel all the way through the AA, A, and B drafts last year. Coundn't quite beat out the other guys I chose. I respect how long he played, and his sometimes vicious style of play, and the passion he had for the game (the way he sold himself to the expansion teams in 1967 for example!) but the fact that he was not a great minor leaguer proved to be the sticking point. If there was some all-star teams on his resume, then that would be, to me, conclusive evidence that he was simply caught up in the numbers game of the O6 and may have been the 20th-30th-best defenseman in the world for an extended period, but that doesn't seem to be the case. Still, as a hired goon... not bad. I wonder what his career would look like if he was approaching 25 when expansion came, and not 40.

I watched him in the Red Wings and while he didn't make the team in the end he was extremely hard to get off the roster and he was one of the hardest guys on that Black Hawks roster, I think that it was Leswick who got worst of it. I am pretty confident that he were amongst the best of the AHL in terms of defense. Your last argument is why I decided to go for him. In my opinion he would've been a 2nd pairing defenseman on any of those expansion teams. I'll end it with this quote,

Larry was tough and fearless. During one game in 1955 he blocked a shot with his head that caught him in the temple. He continued to play but was later ejected from the game which probably saved his life. It was later revealed that he had sustained a serious skull fracture.