Miscellaneous NHL Discussion: 2016/17 Season, Part V

[Rebels57]

Good bye to any offense this team may have. **** having Sutter here.

I understand the reservations regarding Sutter, but the Kings scored the exact same amount of goals as the Flyers at 5V5, allowed 20 less, were 1st in the league in Corsi, and had the exact same PDO as the Flyers.

All that was with a paper thin Kings forward group, an injured Quick, and a group that was ready for a fresh start with a new voice at the helm.

Sutter isn't the answer, he's just a better coach than Hakstol.

 

[Flyerfan4life]

Why are the only 2 options Hak or Sutter?

no one said there werent other options but if its those 2 going into next year ?

Haks is def. the loser in that scenario

 

[Striiker]

If people are annoyed at Hakstols usage of young players then you don't want Sutter...

 

[Flyotes]

If people are annoyed at Hakstols usage of young players then you don't want Sutter...

I'd also enjoy the games less.

 

[Striiker]

I'd also enjoy the games less.

Yeah, people spend all year getting worked up about scoring and then want to make it even more difficult.

 

[TCTC]

I hate watching the Kings. Having the Flyers play like them would be an absolute nightmare.

 

[Curufinwe]

It's funny that the main issue Habs fans seemed to have with Therrien was him not leaving Galchenyuk in the 1C spot, and now their new coach is playing him at 4LW with Steve Ott as his center.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/julien-looks-scoring-balance-galchenyuk-fourth-line/

 

[Ghosts Beer]

It's funny that the main issue Habs fans seemed to have with Therrien was him not leaving Galchenyuk in the 1C spot, and now their new coach is playing him at 4LW with Steve Ott as his center.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/julien-looks-scoring-balance-galchenyuk-fourth-line/

This is exactly why when fans clamor for a new coach, assuming things will be starkly different, they are usually wrong. Fans don't always see what coaches see on a closer basis.

 

[DrinkFightFlyers]

This is exactly why when fans clamor for a new coach, assuming things will be starkly different, they are usually wrong. Fans don't always see what coaches see on a closer basis.

Careful, there are some guys that watch two or three games a night on these boards!

 

[Magua]

It's pretty incredible that Chychrun ended up playing 68 NHL games and scoring 20 points after free falling at the draft and being the 5th dman taken.

He had a pretty solid year, no doubt, as an 18 year old on a crap team. I don't think anyone thought he'd be a bust; he was pretty high floor with his tools. I think people at the draft didn't view him as the potential #1 or top pair d-man he was hyped to be, but more as a top 4 ceiling guy. And we've seen this before where a physically ready young d-man -- beyond that of his peers -- does really well early and then kind of stalls and gets surpassed, so I think it's fair to hold judgement.

Even today, would you take him above Juolevi, Sergachev, Bean, McAvoy?

 

[Magua]

Having the Flyers play like them would be an absolute nightmare.

We DO play like the Kings

Just an inferior version. Hakstol is kind of Darryl Sutter Jr. That said, the Kings style worked and it certainly was successful, but it feels a touch outdated today and not exactly replicable. I have no interest in Sutter or pursuing that style of play. But right now it looks like we are......and an ersatz version at that.

 

[Curufinwe]

He had a pretty solid year, no doubt, as an 18 year old on a crap team. I don't think anyone thought he'd be a bust; he was pretty high floor with his tools. I think people at the draft didn't view him as the potential #1 or top pair d-man he was hyped to be, but more as a top 4 ceiling guy. And we've seen this before where a physically ready young d-man -- beyond that of his peers -- does really well early and then kind of stalls and gets surpassed, so I think it's fair to hold judgement.

Even today, would you take him above Juolevi, Sergachev, Bean, McAvoy?

I really have no idea how those five will be ranked a few years from now. I just never expected Chychrun to play in the NHL this season based on all the stuff I read about him before the draft. Of course, if another team drafted him he may well have gone back to Junior. Arizona are a bit of a special case.

 

[TCTC]

We DO play like the Kings

Just an inferior version. Hakstol is kind of Darryl Sutter Jr. That said, the Kings style worked and it certainly was successful, but it feels a touch outdated today and not exactly replicable. I have no interest in Sutter or pursuing that style of play. But right now it looks like we are......and an ersatz version at that.

The way we played the first two months of the season was nothing like the Kings though. So, it seems Hakstol knows more than just one style.
Only we didn't have the defense and the goaltending we needed this year and Hakstol tried to adjust.

 

[deadhead]

How dare you suggest that personnel might be the real issue.
It's the coach of course, if only we had chosen the right coach the last five years a mediocre team would have been a cup contender.

To me, Hakstol is in the same boat as Brown with the Sixers, until you get him the players you hired him to coach (fast young wingers and offensively talented defensemen) why would you give up on him.

I mean how do you judge a coach on the choice between Vdv and Luby or MacDonald and Manning?

 

[Magua]

The way we played the first two months of the season was nothing like the Kings though. So, it seems Hakstol knows more than just one style.
Only we didn't have the defense and the goaltending we needed this year and Hakstol tried to adjust.

In back to back years we led the league in distance for on shots. That's not a short sample anomaly. It's strategy. Our offensive systems revolve around heavy bodies forechecking, getting pucks to the point, and getting them to the net from up high, going for tips and screens and rebounds. We just do it worse, and we're not as tight defensively with our personnel. Anyone who has watched this Flyers team knows how incredibly boring we are to watch, so I'm not sure why the Kings are boring but we are not. Like Sutter, Hakstol has his obsession with 200 foot play and mediocre depth talent that plays hard. It seems the team is being built from the goaltending and defense position, with forward scoring and scoring suppression in general an issue. Also like the Kings, although in a good way, we have a very tight NZ scheme and excellent breakouts.

I don't know. I see Kings written all over these last 2 seasons. Hakstol can change -- and certainly Hextall's tenure there is not coincidence (though he's his own man too) -- but these last 2 seasons have looked like the Baby Kings to me.

 

[CerpinTaxt]

How dare you suggest that personnel might be the real issue.
It's the coach of course, if only we had chosen the right coach the last five years a mediocre team would have been a cup contender.

To me, Hakstol is in the same boat as Brown with the Sixers, until you get him the players you hired him to coach (fast young wingers and offensively talented defensemen) why would you give up on him.

I mean how do you judge a coach on the choice between Vdv and Luby or MacDonald and Manning?

I think we'd all like the coach better if he didn't play the crappy guys so much. I mean, if I had 2 Gibson Les Paul guitars and 4 Squires, I'd be playing the Les Pauls more often. Get it?

 

[Striiker]

How dare you suggest that personnel might be the real issue.
It's the coach of course, if only we had chosen the right coach the last five years a mediocre team would have been a cup contender.

To me, Hakstol is in the same boat as Brown with the Sixers, until you get him the players you hired him to coach (fast young wingers and offensively talented defensemen) why would you give up on him.

I mean how do you judge a coach on the choice between Vdv and Luby or MacDonald and Manning?

The problem is both coaching and personnel.

It's obvious to everyone but you.

 

[Rebels57]

Yeah, people spend all year getting worked up about scoring and then want to make it even more difficult.

I know that is the common narrative around Sutter, and it's mostly warranted, but they scored the same amount of goals as the Flyers in 16-17 at ES..with even less forward depth.

 

[Rebels57]

The problem is both coaching and personnel.

It's obvious to everyone but you.

Even i'll admit that, and I despise Hakstol. The roster was/still is flawed. It's one of the major reasons we are good at home and awful on the road. Other teams exploit our weaknesses with ease. Hakstol's decisions seemed to expose our weaknesses more than hide them (doozie's like using sending Manning out late in an important tied game).

 

[Lotusflower]

It's funny that the main issue Habs fans seemed to have with Therrien was him not leaving Galchenyuk in the 1C spot, and now their new coach is playing him at 4LW with Steve Ott as his center.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/julien-looks-scoring-balance-galchenyuk-fourth-line/

In his defense, Gally has underwhelmed at center just like Schenn has.

Its why Im noncommittal to those proposals with him as the centerpiece in a Giroux deal.

 

[Rebels57]

In his defense, Gally has underwhelmed at center just like Schenn has.

Its why Im noncommittal to those proposals with him as the centerpiece in a Giroux deal.

I have no interest in Galchenyuk tbh.

If you can't play Center on that Habs team, you can't play center on any team.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

It honestly sounds like Sutter was going to retire last year but Lombardi convinced him to comeback despite other people in the organization wanting to move on as well. I don't really think the guy is going to be coaching anywhere going forward.

 

[YEM]

I know that is the common narrative around Sutter, and it's mostly warranted, but they scored the same amount of goals as the Flyers in 16-17 at ES..with even less forward depth.

yep
and overall 2.43 goals per game for LA vs. 2.59 for the Flyers
I don't want Sutter tho

 

[MiamiScreamingEagles]

This is closed. A new thread is open here: http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=2215817