Miro Heiskanen vs Victor Hedman

[amnesiac]

Hedman is a perennial Norris Candidate.
Heiskanen has the potential but isnt even close yet.

again... whos better now? ie. these playoffs. Not who had the best season.

 

[amnesiac]

Ha! The only players i put above Heiskanen right now is Hedman, and Josi, maybe Carlson.

Jones and Pietro.

 

[Leafmealone11]

17A vs 6A on a much worse offensive team... yeah I would say thats more than just his "secondary assists" at work as you downplay it. Gimme a break. Dumb comment.

The question is who is better now, and just the gap in that stat alone puts him ahead. Defensively, sure Ill give it Hedman, but Heiskanen has been great in his own end as well. Also been better at transition and carrying the puck. His skating is elite level, everyone knows that.

To top it off hes doing it on team with not nearly as much star power as TB. Even their best player, Seguin, has been exceptionally bad offensively. But its all just his secondary assists, right?

Headman is +17 playing 26 minutes a night. He has been on the ice for 6 even strength goals against. “Points” isn’t all their is to hockey.

 

[amnesiac]

Headman is +17 playing 26 minutes a night. He has been on the ice for 6 even strength goals against. “Points” isn’t all their is to hockey.

and +/- is one of the most ridiculous stats in hockey. Come on now

Heiskanen TOI/G is just under Hedman's, btw.

 

[Leafmealone11]

and +/- is one of the most ridiculous stats in hockey. Come on now

Heiskanen TOI/G is just under Hedman's, btw.

Ya of course a guy that plays all night against the best players and is not letting them score means nothing.. it’s almost like the best teams have the best plus minus every year...I wonder why
Who needs to outscore the other team if your Corsica per 60 is better than a third line player on your own team..

 

[Unspecified]

Jones and Pietro.

Probably Jones but never been sold on Pietro

 

[amnesiac]

Ya of course a guy that plays all night against the best players and is not letting them score means nothing.. it’s almost like the best teams have the best plus minus every year...I wonder why
Who needs to outscore the other team if your Corsica per 60 is better than a third line player on your own team..

Hedman is better defensively, but I dont think hes on another level than Heiskanen (defensively) in these playoffs..... Again, Im emphasizing that were talking about whos better now ie in these playoffs. Not carrer, not season, not next season.

Heiskanen has been more valuable to his team than Hedman has to TB since the restart, and I think most would agree with that. Offesively Dallas doesnt nearly have the star power TB has, and yet Heiskanen is 4th in scoring! Thats quite the feat.

 

[amnesiac]

heres a question... if hockey had to stop right now, and they were to award the Conn Smythe anyway, who would it be?

I think it would go:

1. Heiskanen
2. Point
3. Kucherov
4. Hedman
5. Benn
6. Khudobin/Vasi

 

[JoVel]

heres a question... if hockey had to stop right now, and they were to award the Conn Smythe anyway, who would it be?

I think it would go:

1. Heiskanen
2. Point
3. Kucherov
4. Hedman
5. Benn
6. Khudobin/Vasi

Hedman's definitely above Kuch, it's between him and Point for Tampa.

 

[DudeWhereIsMakar]

I think Hedman right now. He's one of the top five in the league right now, personally have him ranked at one. Basically a modern-day Chris Pronger as Doughty is a modern-day Ray Bourque.

Heiskanen will be in the top five next season I imagine, Quinn Hughes too. Heiskanen joining the Stars have put that team on steroids it seems to me.

 

[Sky04]

Headman is +17 playing 26 minutes a night. He has been on the ice for 6 even strength goals against. “Points” isn’t all their is to hockey.

He's only been on the ice for 4 ES goals against. Tampa has also played 3 of the top 10 defensive teams in the league in all of their matchups.

 

[Regal]

17A vs 6A on a much worse offensive team... yeah I would say thats more than just his "secondary assists" at work as you downplay it. Gimme a break. Dumb comment.

The question is who is better now, and just the gap in that stat alone puts him ahead right now. Defensively, sure Ill give it Hedman, but Heiskanen has been great in his own end as well these playoffs. Also been better at transition and carrying the puck out of the zone. His skating is elite level, everyone knows that.

To top it off hes doing it on team with not nearly as much star power as TB. Even their best player, Seguin, has been exceptionally bad offensively. But its all just his secondary assists, right?

No that's the dumb comment. Comparing points by defensemen in small samples is about the worst way to possibly compare them.

Here's how they stack up 5v5 in the playoffs:

	Hedman	Heiskanen
GP	18	20
G	5	3
A1	2	4
A2	1	6
PTS	8	13
PTS1	7	7
CF%	58.1	50.6
GF%	83.3	61.3
xGF%	59.8	55.2
HDCF%	60.5	53.5
relCF%	4.44	4.54
relGF%	33.2	19.6
relXGF%	4.3	10.4
relHDCF%	4.2	7.6
GF	20	19
IPP	40.0	68.5

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Hedman has better raw underlying numbers, while Heiskanen has better relative metrics, though it's much harder to stand out in relative metrics on a good team.

They have the same amount of primary points with Hedman playing 2 fewer games. Heiskanen has 6 secondary assists 5v5 in 20 games which matches his total for the entire regular season. He also has a nearly 70% IPP, which means he's getting an unusually high number of points on the goals that Dallas scores. This can sometimes be seen as a player being more responsible for the goals when he's on the ice, but no defenseman can sustain that. Karlsson led the league with 59% this year and Heiskanen was under 50%.

This trend can also be seen for all situations, where 10 of Heiskanen's 17 assists are secondary and he has a 70% IPP overall. Hedman has clearly been unlucky with only 2 of his 6 assists being secondary. The two are tied in total primary points with 12.

As for Dallas' scoring, it's come throughout the lineup, so it's irrelevant what Seguin has done. Tampa only has 4 more goals than Dallas in these playoffs, and Heiskanen has been on the ice for 1 more goal for.

Even if you do think Heiskanen has been better these playoffs, suggesting a player is better "now" because of a few weeks of slightly better play is extremely flawed. "Now" has no real definable concept. All the playoff games we're discussing happened in the past as well, so how far back we go is completely subjective. Hedman has 5 points in 5 games against the Islanders to 4 in 5 games for Heiskanen against the Knights. Is that a better reflection of "now". When we talk about "now", it needs to be about trying to determine what a player is likely to perform as in the near future. With Hedman, we have both an excellent playoffs and a track record of Norris-level play to suggest that this is sustainable. With Heiskanen we only have these playoffs. It would be one thing to put him above a player who has never performed similarly in any stretch of time, but that's not the case here.

 

[Sky04]

again... whos better now? ie. these playoffs. Not who had the best season.

Hedman easily.

Using small time frames is dumb, is Yanni Gourde better than Tyler Seguin because of 15 games? Nah sorry anyone can a hot streak, it only matters when you prove it over time.

 

[TheGoldenJet]

again... whos better now?

It’s still Hedman, not close.

 

[VoluntaryDom]

not at all.... Ekblad, Pulock, Spurgeon arent even on the same planet.

and you forgot Jones.

i didnt forget jones

heiskanen is way better than jones

 

[VoluntaryDom]

I like your avatar of Artemi Panarin drinking a sweet tea

do i rly look that much like panarin lol

 

[VoluntaryDom]

heres a question... if hockey had to stop right now, and they were to award the Conn Smythe anyway, who would it be?

I think it would go:

1. Heiskanen
2. Point
3. Kucherov
4. Hedman
5. Benn
6. Khudobin/Vasi

1. point
2. hedman
3. heiskanen
4. kucherov
5. khudobin

 

[wintersej]

I do think 20 year old Heiskanen is better then the 20 year old Hedman though.

Oh for sure. Like 10 of these young D are better than Hedman at 20. Hedman grew into his projected frame. Doesn’t mean anything about who will be better at 29.

 

[KuchieKooRov]

question is who is better "now"

not whos had the best career, or who do you think will be best

I'll take Hedman over any other defenseman in the league. I thought you could infer that from my post. It isn't like Hedman is past his prime. He is 29.

 

[Nosferatu]

Hedman is top three. And Hiskanen is maybe top 15. Of course things could change in da future. But at the oment there is not a manager who wouldn’t take Gedman over Hiskanen if they got paid the sama amount.

 

[amnesiac]

I'll take Hedman over any other defenseman in the league. I thought you could infer that from my post. It isn't like Hedman is past his prime. He is 29.

so this all falls into the definition of "now" as a previous poster said. To me, if were talking these playoffs, I beleive Heiskanen has been the best Dman and MVP (Conn Smythe) so far.

That said, Hedman is the best Dman in the league, and Id take him next season over any other Dman as well.

 

[amnesiac]

i didnt forget jones

heiskanen is way better than jones

and you think all those you listed are better than Jones too??? ouch.

 

[KuchieKooRov]

I value goal scoring and hedman is also scoring the most from the back end. Heiskanens numbers in Vegas series dropped. Hedmans continue to go up for what it's worth.

 

[Machinehead]

do i rly look that much like panarin lol

You are him just with no hockey talent lol

 

[Fatass]

Hedman brings meanness. Imo he’s the most impactful D man in the league.