Minnesota Wild General Discussion XIV

[57special]

Dumba would get a 1st in trade with a team like VAN, but we'd also have to take an expiring contract like Sutter or Edler(unlikely) for cap reasons. Back when we thought we'd be out of the playoffs that would be fine, but I suspect that Guerin will hold onto Dumba if we are on track to make the playoffs.

 

[AKL]

Ok. Soucy is a known asset. A first is a wild card.

Nick Bjugstad, Zach Parise, Ian Cole, Alex Stalock, Matt Bartkowski are also all known assets. I would trade all of them combined for a single 1st round pick and I would laugh my way to the bank afterwards.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

And the circumstances dictated that Spurgeon needed to be traded. By failing to make the correct decision with Spurgeon, Guerin created circumstances that then dictated that he couldn't re-sign Brodin until he had a solution to the expansion draft.

Yeah, but he didn't. He likes Brodin and a RHD prospect was the prize of the Zucker trade. This is the result. You can keep it on your "Reasons to Fire Guerin" list if you want.

 

[2Pair]

A what?

Of course I have, but if you tease him and expect to sign him back; he’s obviously hitting free agency. At which point, 30 other teams are there to contend with

If you tell Brodin that you would love to sign him for 7 years and $42M but it would really help the team if he waits 6 months to sign it, and he declines? You tell him thanks for your time and trade him at the deadline. If money matters that much to him, he will come back if you have the best offer.

 

[57special]

I still don't think Parise waiving his NMC is out of the realm of possibility.

Protect: Suter, Spurgeon, Brodin, Dumba, Zucc, Ek, Fiala, Greenway
Lose: Soucy
Sign: Cole

We can dream, but I'm guessing that Parise won't waive. I'm not saying it isn't deserved, but it looks like Parise is getting the same treatment that Koivu did, and is sliding his way down the lineup. I am almost certain that Guerin has talked this over with Evason, and is ok with it. It will be interesting to see where this all ends up.

 

[Minnewildsota]

Nick Bjugstad, Zach Parise, Ian Cole, Alex Stalock, Matt Bartkowski are also all known assets. I would trade all of them combined for a single 1st round pick and I would laugh my way to the bank afterwards.

If you were Edmonton, would you trade McDavid for a first?

No, it’s obviously situational based upon the player. Don’t be daft.

The question becomes, do you think you can get a player Soucy caliber or better in the draft? I don’t feel confident in this draft.

What teams are realistically going to trade for another player they’re going to protect?

 

[2Pair]

Yeah, but he didn't. He likes Brodin and a RHD prospect was the prize of the Zucker trade. This is the result. You can keep it on your "Reasons to Fire Guerin" list if you want.

Just pointing out that your "eh, what can you do about it" post was wrong.

 

[Minnewildsota]

If you tell Brodin that you would love to sign him for 7 years and $42M but it would really help the team if he waits 6 months to sign it, and he declines? You tell him thanks for your time and trade him at the deadline. If money matters that much to him, he will come back if you have the best offer.

What color is the sky in your world?

 

[AKL]

If you were Edmonton, would you trade McDavid for a first?

No, it’s obviously situational based upon the player. Don’t be daft.

The question becomes, do you think you can get a player Soucy caliber or better in the draft? I don’t feel confident in this draft.

What teams are realistically going to trade for another player they’re going to protect?

Yeah, then explain why Soucy, the player, is worth more than a 1st. Your explanation of "he's a known asset" doesn't do anything to help your case.

Don't be daft.

 

[Spurgeon]

We can dream, but i'm guessing that Parise won't waive.

The main two reasons I think he will is:

1. He already agreed to waive previously to the NYI, which means he's not deadset on staying here till he retires.
2. As a 36 year-old, his main concern is winning a cup before he retires. He knows that there are practically no contenders that want him at a $7.5M AAV and that his only realistic chance is on the best Wild team that can be assembled in the next 3-4 years. Waiving his NMC gives him the best chance at that.

 

[2Pair]

What color is the sky in your world?

quality argument.

Whats the worst case scenario in what I proposed? What's the best case scenario?
Now answer the same questions about what Guerin is actually doing. Seems like blue skies over here in my world.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Just pointing out that your "eh, what can you do about it" post was wrong.

It's not wrong, we're just talking in different tenses. You're talking about he could've/should've done. I'm talking about what he can/is/will/might/planning do now that the current situation/circumstance is staring us in the face.

 

[57special]

The main two reasons I think he will is:

1. He already agreed to waive previously to the NYI, which means he's not deadset on staying here till he retires.
2. As a 36 year-old, his main concern is winning a cup before he retires. He knows that there are practically no contenders that want him at a $7.5M AAV and that his only realistic chance is on the best Wild team that can be assembled in the next 3-4 years. Waiving his NMC gives him the best chance at that.

You've got me convinced, but for some reason these common sense conversations never seem to go down between a GM and a player...probably because there is an agent in between.

 

[Minnewildsota]

quality argument.

Whats the worst case scenario in what I proposed? What's the best case scenario?
Now answer the same questions about what Guerin is actually doing. Seems like blue skies over here in my world.

It’s just not how the real world works.

“We love to sign you at x but...”
“Well if you’d love to sign me, why don’t you”
“We would but...”
“ I’m supposed to trust you to make an offer in the future, when you could make it now?”

Could I borrow $50,000? I promise I’ll repay you in the future

 

[AKL]

It’s just not how the real world works.

“We love to sign you at x but...”
“Well if you’d love to sign me, why don’t you”
“We would but...”
“ I’m supposed to trust you to make an offer in the future, when you could make it now?”

Could I borrow $50,000? I promise I’ll repay you in the future

Not really an apt comparison.

But if you're worried about how the conversation will go, then don't have the conversation. They signed the extension in December, where Guerin still had 9 months to figure out what he was going to do with Dumba. He took away a lot of his own leverage by giving Brodin the extension with NMC that early.

 

[2Pair]

It’s just not how the real world works.

“We love to sign you at x but...”
“Well if you’d love to sign me, why don’t you”
“We would but...”
“ I’m supposed to trust you to make an offer in the future, when you could make it now?”

Could I borrow $50,000? I promise I’ll repay you in the future

You do understand that contract negotiations happen all the time before an actual contract can be signed? Right? Maybe you could do more to explain the "real world" to me. I'm sure there's so much that you could teach me about the NHL.

answer my question from above. What's the worst/best case scenarios?

 

[2Pair]

Not really an apt comparison.

But if you're worried about how the conversation will go, then don't have the conversation. They signed the extension in December, where Guerin still had 9 months to figure out what he was going to do with Dumba. He took away a lot of his own leverage by giving Brodin the extension with NMC that early.

I remember somebody on this very board saying that Guerin would be shooting himself in the foot if he re-signed Brodin before trading Dumba. Most people thought I was just being a Guerin hater then too.

 

[Spurgeon]

You've got me convinced, but for some reason these common sense conversations never seem to go down between a GM and a player...probably because there is an agent in between.

Yeah, I would hope that he's already had the talk with Parise. Knowing that information is pretty critical for the moves you make leading up to the ED and the moves that he has made make me think he's operating under the assumption that Parise will waive his NMC.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

It’s just not how the real world works.

“We love to sign you at x but...”
“Well if you’d love to sign me, why don’t you”
“We would but...”
“ I’m supposed to trust you to make an offer in the future, when you could make it now?”

Could I borrow $50,000? I promise I’ll repay you in the future

The conversation could start with "hey, we figured out a way to keep your buddy Matt here through expansion..."

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

I remember somebody on this very board saying that Guerin would be shooting himself in the foot if he re-signed Brodin before trading Dumba. Most people thought I was just being a Guerin hater then too.

Dumba's on-ice performance is still going to have a hell of a lot more to do with his potential trade value than the timing of Brodin's contract.

 

[2Pair]

Dumba's on-ice performance is still going to have a hell of a lot more to do with his potential trade value than the timing of Brodin's contract.

Did re-signing Brodin help or hurt Guerin's leverage when it comes to trading Dumba?
Did re-signing Brodin help or hurt Guerin's flexibility as it pertains to the expansion draft?

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Did re-signing Brodin help or hurt Guerin's leverage when it comes to trading Dumba?
Did re-signing Brodin help or hurt Guerin's flexibility as it pertains to the expansion draft?

The first one is negligible at best. The second definitely hurt, but that has to do with Brodin's NMC, not Dumba's value.

 

[Kshahdoo]

Good article on Star Tribune. I've noticed it as well, how the team has changed its style from typical Canadian hockey of 70s to something more or less modern.

https://www.startribune.com/rookie-...ng-to-be-best-reason-to-watch-wild/600027587/

 

[2Pair]

The first one is negligible at best. The second definitely hurt, but that has to do with Brodin's NMC, not Dumba's value.

Yeah, no

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Yeah, no

Yeah, yeah.