Confirmed Buy-Out [MIN] Zach Parise and Ryan Suter

[AKL]

How good are both players at this stage?

As of the end of Minnesota's season, Parise is a decent to solid 3rd/4th liner, depending on what your lines are deployed as. Speed isn't really there, defensive play that never was really there definitely isn't there, but he's still mostly willing to go to the net and chip away at pucks. He can occasionally make a somewhat skilled play reminiscent of the past, but don't rely on that. Realistically, in the right situation, he's probably still good for abouit 15ish goals and maybe 30ish points, but most of them are going to be greasy.

Suter is still a solid second pair defenseman at this point. He's lost foot speed as well because of an injury he had a couple years back, but his game was always more cerebral than physical anyway. He's still good from a positioning and stick checking standpoint. Sometimes it looks like he's not really trying all that hard though. He's never going to be the first to a loose puck or to a corner battle, but he can still effectively win the battle a lot of the time. Still an all situations type player, just a worse version of what he used to be.

 

[Langdon Alger]

As of the end of Minnesota's season, Parise is a decent to solid 3rd/4th liner, depending on what your lines are deployed as. Speed isn't really there, defensive play that never was really there definitely isn't there, but he's still mostly willing to go to the net and chip away at pucks. He can occasionally make a somewhat skilled play reminiscent of the past, but don't rely on that. Realistically, in the right situation, he's probably still good for abouit 15ish goals and maybe 30ish points, but most of them are going to be greasy.

Suter is still a solid second pair defenseman at this point. He's lost foot speed as well because of an injury he had a couple years back, but his game was always more cerebral than physical anyway. He's still good from a positioning and stick checking standpoint. Sometimes it looks like he's not really trying all that hard though. He's never going to be the first to a loose puck or to a corner battle, but he can still effectively win the battle a lot of the time. Still an all situations type player, just a worse version of what he used to be.

Thank you for taking the time to give such a detailed response. Cheers

 

[Al Lagoon]

How good are both players at this stage?

I'll add to what AKL said. I thought Parise looked pretty good before he got placed on the Covid list at the end of March, and again when he was introduced late in the playoffs. I think he could surprise folks next season, given he will have a huge chip on his shoulder. What surprised me most was that his skating was actually pretty good. He was a huge turnover machine parts of last season as well however.

Suter is at his best bumping and grinding in corners and in front of the net. He has all the mental tools of positioning and stickwork down pat still. His passing is still good as well. His skating took a dive though, and he got walked more than a few times on rushes.

I know some Wid fans would strongly disagree, but I think Parise has as much game as Suter at this point.

 

[State of Hockey]

Realistically, in the right situation, he's probably still good for abouit 15ish goals and maybe 30ish points, but most of them are going to be greasy.

He was on pace for a 13-20 season while getting the 11th most ice time per game among forwards and 7th among them in PP time. His 5 on 5 points per 60 minutes actually improved last year. If he can do 13-20 here with 4th line minutes and some special teams, he can do a lot better than that yet in the right situation. He's likely a 40-50 point guy next year on a scoring line.

 

[AKL]

He was on pace for a 13-20 season while getting the 11th most ice time per game among forwards and 7th among them in PP time. His 5 on 5 points per 60 minutes actually improved last year. If he can do 13-20 here with 4th line minutes and some special teams, he can do a lot better than that yet in the right situation. He's likely a 40-50 point guy next year on a scoring line.

And if you're a team with him on your scoring lines, you're not a contender. Bottom six guy puts up bottom six numbers playing bottom six minutes, more on this breaking story at 10.

 

[Hasbro]

What would the cap hits look like if Guerin waited until next season to buy them out?

 

[DomBarr]

What would the cap hits look like if Guerin waited until next season to buy them out?

For each player it would be $7.5 M this season and then $5.4, $6.5, $6.5, $450K for 3 more seasons.
This was the best time to buyout these 2 contracts as they did manage to clear $10 M in cap space this season which doesn't occur after this season.

 

[Hasbro]

For each player it would be $7.5 M this season and then $5.4, $6.5, $6.5, $450K for 3 more seasons.
This was the best time to buyout these 2 contracts as they did manage to clear $10 M in cap space this season which doesn't occur after this season.

Pretty much the same boat for the next three seasons and they needed those protection slots.

Thanks.

 

[PAZ]

With the risk of recapture hanging over Guerin's head, how could he possible allocate that money to other players? And players who are planning on retiring just can't go on LTIR, they need to have an actual verifiable injury.

It's a crazy buyout because the NHL screwed over the Wild by retroactively punishing them for contracts they they had to approve. It doesn't really make any sense.

This isn’t just the NHL screwing over the Wild. This is something that was discussed during the collective bargaining agreement and the owners had to agree to it.

Teams knew what they were doing, and they knew this was a loophole. They also knew and were warned there would be punishment for circumventing the cap. GMs decided to gamble and play with fire, it worked out for the Wild until now.

 

[MuckOG]

This isn’t just the NHL screwing over the Wild. This is something that was discussed during the collective bargaining agreement and the owners had to agree to it.

Teams knew what they were doing, and they knew this was a loophole. They also knew and were warned there would be punishment for circumventing the cap. GMs decided to gamble and play with fire, it worked out for the Wild until now.

At the time the contracts were signed, they were under the old collective bargaining agreement. You call it a "loop hole", fine, but the old agreement didn't ban these types of deals...so, in effect, they were legal at the time and the NHL signed off on them. If they NHL felt they were circumventing the cap they could have rejected the contracts before they were signed and filed.

Going back and retroactively punishing the Wild for doing something which the NHL permitted at the time is ex post facto. Of course, the other GMs signed off on this new agreement because it gave them a competitive advantage by doing so.

 

[PAZ]

At the time the contracts were signed, they were under the old collective bargaining agreement. You call it a "loop hole", fine, but the old agreement didn't ban these types of deals...so, in effect, they were legal at the time and the NHL signed off on them.

Going back and retroactively punishing the Wild for doing something which the NHL permitted at the time is ex post facto. Of course, the other GMs signed off on this new agreement because it gave them a competitive advantage by doing so.

Don’t pretend that GMs didn’t know there was a risk to doing this. They knew this was a loophole and against the spirit of the rules. They were warned not to circumvent the cap, but under the old CBA they had to approve them until the new CBA came around.

Why do you think only a few teams did this with star players? Teams knew there would be punishment beforehand, they just didn’t know what it would be. If teams weren’t warned, every star player would’ve been signed to these types of contracts during the old CBA. Some teams just decided it was worth the risk of an unknown punishment.

 

[BlackBusa24]

Don’t pretend that GMs didn’t know there was a risk to doing this. They knew this was a loophole and against the spirit of the rules. They were warned not to circumvent the cap, but under the old CBA they had to approve them until the new CBA came around.

Why do you think only a few teams did this with star players? Teams knew there would be punishment beforehand, they just didn’t know what it would be. If teams weren’t warned, every star player would’ve been signed to these types of contracts during the old CBA. Some teams just decided it was worth the risk of an unknown punishment.

And no one did anything to the lightning when they circumvented the cap. The NHL should consider being consistent... But yea... That's definitely not the nhls m.o....