Confirmed Trade: [MIN/PIT] Jason Zucker for 2021 1st round pick, Alex Galchenyuk, and Calen Addison

[AKL]

None of the deadline deals had any conditions that would downgrade or stop the transaction of a 1st round pick though; in all of those picks, a 1st is guaranteed to be exchanged, it's just a matter of what year.


As for the pick in this deal, MIN will get a pick no matter what. Imo, since PIT did not qualify for the Playoffs (if the season is completely cancelled) , the condition should be triggered such that PIT can choose

They didn't miss the playoffs either, which is what the condition actually is.

 

[rent free]

Would be pretty wonderful for us to get the 1st in what will likely be an altered 2005 style lottery this year.

why do you think this year's draft will be an altered 2005 style lottery?

 

[uncleben]

They didn't miss the playoffs either, which is what the condition actually is.

The released statement is:

If Pittsburgh does not qualify for the postseason, it will have the option to instead give Minnesota its first-round pick in 2021.

Zucker traded to Penguins by Wild for Galchenyuk

However, that may differ from the verbiage actually submitted to the League on the trade call (nhl.com/team website releases are not 'official' in that sense)

 

[AKL]

The released statement is:

Zucker traded to Penguins by Wild for Galchenyuk

However, that may differ from the verbiage actually submitted to the League on the trade call (nhl.com/team website releases are not 'official' in that sense)

Yeah I have no idea what the actual verbiage is, which may or may not change the situation drastically. I personally like this analogy: if you're planning on catching a bus, but you show up 5 minutes late, you missed the bus. The bus was there, it happened. On the other hand, if you were waiting for the bus, and you there when it was supposed to stop, but it never came, you didn't miss the bus, because it was never there. If the playoffs don't happen, Pittsburgh didn't miss the playoffs, because they didn't happen. And you can't punish Minnesota for that, because it's obviously beyond anyone's control.

But the black and white of the deal is Pittsburgh traded a 2020 1st with a condition on it. If the condition is unable to be met due to circumstances beyond control, the condition is not fulfilled. If the condition is not fulfilled (in this case, condition fulfilled would be Pittsburgh missing the playoffs), then the consequences of the condition should not be activated.

Like one guy said earlier, if you start picking and choosing which conditions you allow and which you don't, it's going to be a jumbled mess and a lot of gray area league-wide, and like 2Pair said, if you allow Pittsburgh the choice here, then Minnesota has a great case for a grievance.

 

[Gurglesons]

why do you think this year's draft will be an altered 2005 style lottery?

If they cancel the playoffs you think they aren’t going to give the teams that missed the playoffs a lottery chance?

 

[Lenerdosy]

Effectively, and I’m not going to go around and make a list of all conditional trades made this season, but Pittsburgh traded a 2020 1st to Minnesota. The league will say, the conditions were unable to be met, so you will give them the 2020 1st like you agreed on.

This is an unprecedented situation, and like you said, there would be a lot of jumbling, which would lead to a huge gray area for a lot of these deals, so yes, it would be easier for the league to just look at the black and white of the deal and ignore conditions. Especially in this case.

My bet is they will just put everyone on points percentage to finish up the final standings (as opposed to standings currently because games played are different for all teams) and say all conditionals will work like that. Its such a weird situation this year, it might be the easiest way. I know Canucks are in similar situation as Pittsburg right now with conditional firsts.

 

[rent free]

If they cancel the playoffs you think they aren’t going to give the teams that missed the playoffs a lottery chance?

no. i think the league will order them from 16-31 based on points percentage and do the lottery with teams who have picks 1-15.

 

[2Pair]

If they cancel the playoffs you think they aren’t going to give the teams that missed the playoffs a lottery chance?

Even Bettman and the NHL can't be stupid enough to give teams like Pittsburgh a chance at the 1st pick in the draft

 

[Tweed]

Even Bettman and the NHL can't be stupid enough to give teams like Pittsburgh a chance at the 1st pick in the draft

Why not? They gave Tampa and Calgary a shot at Crosby.

 

[Digitalbooya]

Why not? They gave Tampa and Calgary a shot at Crosby.

Completely different situation. There were no points or standings because the entire 04-05 season was locked out.

 

[57special]

Yeah, no way the league rules that teams who were in a playoff position when play stopped get the "conditional " pick coming back to them AND a lottery style draft.

If I had to guess I would say that they get neither, but we are certainly in uncharted territory.

 

[16thOverallSaveUs]

Would be pretty wonderful for us to get the 1st in what will likely be an altered 2005 style lottery this year.

I wouldn’t get your hopes up on a 2005 style lottery. I wouldn’t be apposed to letting Pittsburgh have their pick this year based on how they were playing the last few weeks. Worst case scenario, it’s a late 1st next year, best case, we’ve got an unprotected 1st to get excited about.

 

[Gurglesons]

I wouldn’t get your hopes up on a 2005 style lottery. I wouldn’t be apposed to letting Pittsburgh have their pick this year based on how they were playing the last few weeks. Worst case scenario, it’s a late 1st next year, best case, we’ve got an unprotected 1st to get excited about.

I assume if the playoffs are cancelled they’d put the lottery teams in up to a point and then do something like 11 through 31 lottery between the rest

 

[16thOverallSaveUs]

I assume if the playoffs are cancelled they’d put the lottery teams in up to a point and then do something like 11 through 31 lottery between the rest

That doesn’t make sense

 

[Tweed]

Completely different situation. There were no points or standings because the entire 04-05 season was locked out.

Explain why that's different in a way that should determine who is eligible to draft high?

 

[AKL]

Explain why that's different in a way that should determine who is eligible to draft high?

Because games were played and standings exist, versus back then when no games were played and no standings existed.

 

[Tweed]

Because games were played and standings exist, versus back then when no games were played and no standings existed.

The end result is the same though... nobody benefitted from having played the partial season. (assuming the season is cancelled)

 

[AKL]

The end result is the same though... nobody benefitted from having played the partial season. (assuming the season is cancelled)

You're not doing a very good job of convincing me that teams like Boston, Tampa Bay, St. Louis, Pittsburgh, Washington who have all been top 10 in the league the last two seasons, as well as other teams who were well on their way to a playoff spot this season, deserve a crack at prospects like Lafreniere and Byfield.

 

[Tweed]

You're not doing a very good job of convincing me that teams like Boston, Tampa Bay, St. Louis, Pittsburgh, Washington who have all been top 10 in the league the last two seasons, as well as other teams who were well on their way to a playoff spot this season, deserve a crack at prospects like Lafreniere and Byfield.

I don't need to convince you of anything. The precedent has been set. It's on you to convince me that precedent should be tossed aside. Like I said, originally.

 

[AKL]

I don't need to convince you of anything. The precedent has been set. It's on you to convince me that precedent should be tossed aside. Like I said, originally.

No it hasn't, entirely different situation you're referring to.

 

[stardog]

And if we want to take this route, Minnesota has the argument that they were shorted 20ish games from Galchenyuk plus a probable playoff run. What does Pittsburgh have to add to the deal to make up for that?

Or, conversely, Pittsburgh could really come out with Minnesota owing even more if this route were persued. The argument that Gurin would make is above, that Minny was shorted 20 games of Gally.
The rebuttal of Rutherford being.... I understand the point you're trying to make here Bill. You feel like you didn't get what you thought you would as far as full value. You feel that your team has been shorted 20 games from a player you traded for.....of course, on the other hand, look on the bright side.... as in, your team was shorted 20 games from the player you traded for. Having traded for him myself, we understand the pain. The difference being that we were shorted over twice that amount of games from Galchenyuk after trading for him and he dressed for every single one of them.

 

[sasha barkov]

PITT deserves the pick, and it should be changed to a 2021 first

 

[Halla]

My bet is they will just put everyone on points percentage to finish up the final standings (as opposed to standings currently because games played are different for all teams) and say all conditionals will work like that. Its such a weird situation this year, it might be the easiest way. I know Canucks are in similar situation as Pittsburg right now with conditional firsts.

this would be pretty hard to do. teams seperated by .001% could be either in or out of the lotto based on points %?

 

[stardog]

If they cancel the playoffs you think they aren’t going to give the teams that missed the playoffs a lottery chance?

If they cancel the playoffs, then every team will be a team that missed the playoffs.
Or is that the point you're making? That there should be a tiered or weighted lottery type setting to determine draft order?
Which I think that is the only way one can go.
However, I wouldn't have teams which were mathematically eliminated from the draft lottery at the point of the stoppage be eligible for the lottery as it was already a foregone conclusion that the record they had accumulated thus far deemed it impossible.
At that point it would be weighted to determine draft position for the later part of the first round.
Then again, they could argue that the ultimate goal is the Cup (which it obviously is of course) and through no fault of their own they were robbed of the opportunity (some of which being a very strong opportunity) and that their success shouldn't be punished on top of missing out on a possible cup by being completely precluded from a lottery that isn't based on results from a complete season. As such, they could argue for a small chance of improving their draft stock even if it were a minimal chance.
Of course that won't happen and I am guessing that the league will use the final standings at a set point (maybe 68 games or so) and have a semi regular lottery for the teams they've determined as "non playoff teams" from that point with maybe a few small tweaks involved.
Hopefully it's all a moot point because the league resumes and we are able to finish out the season.

On another note that is similar due to its open ended nature, question marks and no set rules governing for this event, did anyone hear about Pierre Mac saying on a radio interview on a Pittsburgh station that the salary cap could drop by 40%?
How in the hell could he even say that (yes I understand the cap is based on revenue from the prior season) even considering lost revenue? There's no logical or tangible way of doing so short of massive buyouts. It could,or would completely reset the league and every franchise in it based on, a single year. And then again the following year as the cap would spike massively back to normal causing league wide one year contracts to get compliant for next season followed by a second year of upheaval as you'd again have 80% (random number) of the leagues players as free agents then trying to cash in. 2 years in a row of the vast majority of the players as free agents would be almost a complete league reset immediately following the cancellation (in this scenario) of the league this year.
Again, don't see it happening but I am surprised that he even threw the idea out there as one that is potentially plausible.

 

[AKL]

PITT deserves the pick, and it should be changed to a 2021 first

Nope. They traded a 2020 pick. Not giving Minnesota the 2020 pick would be penalizing them for something they had no control of.