Milwaukee Brewers to explore relocation

[KevFu]

Except in the 90s teams were trying to leave cookie cutter that were just awful for baseball and football . Now they want new stadiums for just a few more luxery noxes

True but it's more like free agency... there's so few times the players have the hammer, so when they hit free agency, they're going to swing it.

The teams are going to ask, then threaten, and then find a solution.

 

[StreetHawk]

Yes, this is just it. Owners in places like Tampa and Milwaukee will be hard-pressed to find other cities willing to foot the majority of the bill for a new stadium. I can't see upwards of 5 cities (3 relocated and 2 expansion teams) doing that these days.

Only types of cities, I could see footing the bill for a stadium would be those markets without pro sports teams. Like somewhere in Kentucky, South Carolina, Alabama, Virginia, etc. Question then is whether those markets generate the revenue needed to sustain an MLB team.

Location is the number one thing for any pro sports team. MLB, with 81 home games, need to be centrally located for the fans.

 

[KevFu]

I said it in another Oakland thread, because we were talking about how there kinda NEEDS to be two teams in the Bay Area because that market is so huge..

When you don't look at MSAs or CSAs, but really who's in the accessible region... A 70-mile radius around Oakland has about 14 million people in it (SF, SJ, SAC, Stockton, Modesto, Napa, Sonoma, Santa Cruz, etc).

But the same 70-mile radius around the northern suburbs of Chicago has about 12m people in it... and Milwaukee, which is a THIRD MLB TEAM.

One franchise moved to Milwaukee and then left for greener financial pastures in Atlanta.

The Brewers exist because Kansas City threatened baseball over the A's moving and the AL expanded hastily to KC and SEA, but Seattle just wasn't ready yet so Bud Selig bought the Pilots franchise for Milwaukee.

The Brewers are an incredibly charming franchise, with an old logo on par with the Hartford Whalers, so no one wants them to move. But they've also been an incredibly "small-market, poor" franchise that has success via really smart executives (Who they usually can't keep. Stearns is probably taking over the Mets in December).

Of course, it sucks for anyone to lose their team, but the reality is that the Chicagoland-Milwaukee corridor should have TWO teams, not three; and the Bay Area should have two and not one.

 

[The Great Mighty Poo]

Oh well.

 

[Melrose Munch]

MLB is trying to become the 4th largest sport by the end of the decade...

 

[crobro]

On the docket for expansion cities, the rumours have been:

Portland, Las Vegas (though the A's appear to be relocating there), Nashville, North Carolina, Montreal.

I don't foresee Montreal building a new stadium for an owner. They'd have to foot the bill themselves. Nashville paying for over half the new Titans stadium. Not sure they are going to do another one in a short time span. Charlotte, they know that the Panther's stadium is going to be discussed as either a massive renovation or a new stadium with Tepper in the not so distant future.

Montreal could renovate reconfigure Perceval stadium into a baseball stadium and send the Alouettes back to the Big O

 

[End on a Hinote]

YES! New stadiums/arenas almost always sign the teams to 30-year leases. So we ARE repeating the 1990s!

If this means repeating the same quality hockey, music and movies of the time....LGF!

 

[IU Hawks fan]

I only glanced at it, but it says the stadium district is supposed to pay for maintenance and upgrades to keep the stadium in the upper 25% of all the ballparks. Where is this stadium district and what is in the district? When I look at overhead satellite images all I see surrounding the stadium is a see or parking and industrial buildings.

The district is made up of 5 counties.

HOME

Summary Of The Stadium District The Wisconsin Professional Baseball Park District (the District) is a special district that is a local unit of government, a body corporate and politic that is separate, distinct and independent from the state. The District has been charged with the oversight and...

wibaseballdistrict.com

 

[Mike Jones]

Calgary made the mistake of surrendering to Flames owners and it's going to haunt us for decades. Wisconsin taxpayers have to stand up now and demand that officials refuse any requests for tax dollars. If the Brewers move they move. It sucks but that tax money should be going to higher priorities.

I only glanced at it, but it says the stadium district is supposed to pay for maintenance and upgrades to keep the stadium in the upper 25% of all the ballparks. Where is this stadium district and what is in the district? When I look at overhead satellite images all I see surrounding the stadium is a see or parking and industrial buildings.


Yes, this is just it. Owners in places like Tampa and Milwaukee will be hard-pressed to find other cities willing to foot the majority of the bill for a new stadium. I can't see upwards of 5 cities (3 relocated and 2 expansion teams) doing that these days.

Is Montreal in the market for a team or is that just propaganda to help get teams what they need from local and state governments?

 

[RayMartyniukTotems]

Who the hell would want the Brewers?

I bet Mexico city would love the Brewers

Calgary made the mistake of surrendering to Flames owners and it's going to haunt us for decades. Wisconsin taxpayers have to stand up now and demand that officials refuse any requests for tax dollars. If the Brewers move they move. It sucks but that tax money should be going to higher priorities.


Is Montreal in the market for a team or is that just propaganda to help get teams what they need from local and state governments?

Yes Montreal should get "their team" back even if its the Brewers

 

[oknazevad]

I'll link to my previous post on this from the previous thread:
Post in thread 'MLB orders Brewers to upgrade American Family Field, estimated to cost $448 million'
MLB orders Brewers to upgrade American Family Field, estimated to cost $448 million

It's still not a new demand, it's already an obligation as the landlord under the team's lease. And it's still about partisan gridlock. Just rattling the saber louder to try to break that gridlock.

 

[sabremike]

I said it in another Oakland thread, because we were talking about how there kinda NEEDS to be two teams in the Bay Area because that market is so huge..

When you don't look at MSAs or CSAs, but really who's in the accessible region... A 70-mile radius around Oakland has about 14 million people in it (SF, SJ, SAC, Stockton, Modesto, Napa, Sonoma, Santa Cruz, etc).

But the same 70-mile radius around the northern suburbs of Chicago has about 12m people in it... and Milwaukee, which is a THIRD MLB TEAM.

One franchise moved to Milwaukee and then left for greener financial pastures in Atlanta.

The Brewers exist because Kansas City threatened baseball over the A's moving and the AL expanded hastily to KC and SEA, but Seattle just wasn't ready yet so Bud Selig bought the Pilots franchise for Milwaukee.

The Brewers are an incredibly charming franchise, with an old logo on par with the Hartford Whalers, so no one wants them to move. But they've also been an incredibly "small-market, poor" franchise that has success via really smart executives (Who they usually can't keep. Stearns is probably taking over the Mets in December).

Of course, it sucks for anyone to lose their team, but the reality is that the Chicagoland-Milwaukee corridor should have TWO teams, not three; and the Bay Area should have two and not one.

Who do you plan on hiring to kidnap and torture the Giants owner until he agrees to allow another team in the Bay Area after the A's move (remember they blocked the A's from moving to SJ as it was ceded to the Giants ironically to stop them from moving in the early 90's)?

 

[IU Hawks fan]

I said it in another Oakland thread, because we were talking about how there kinda NEEDS to be two teams in the Bay Area because that market is so huge..

When you don't look at MSAs or CSAs, but really who's in the accessible region... A 70-mile radius around Oakland has about 14 million people in it (SF, SJ, SAC, Stockton, Modesto, Napa, Sonoma, Santa Cruz, etc).

But the same 70-mile radius around the northern suburbs of Chicago has about 12m people in it... and Milwaukee, which is a THIRD MLB TEAM.

One franchise moved to Milwaukee and then left for greener financial pastures in Atlanta.

The Brewers exist because Kansas City threatened baseball over the A's moving and the AL expanded hastily to KC and SEA, but Seattle just wasn't ready yet so Bud Selig bought the Pilots franchise for Milwaukee.

The Brewers are an incredibly charming franchise, with an old logo on par with the Hartford Whalers, so no one wants them to move. But they've also been an incredibly "small-market, poor" franchise that has success via really smart executives (Who they usually can't keep. Stearns is probably taking over the Mets in December).

Of course, it sucks for anyone to lose their team, but the reality is that the Chicagoland-Milwaukee corridor should have TWO teams, not three; and the Bay Area should have two and not one.

The Brewers have about 3.4 million people to draw from within the accessible counties on their side of the border, their market is just fine.

People from Wisconsin aren't coming to Chicago to support one of our teams, the cultural divide from a sports perspective is far too strong.

 

[tarheelhockey]

The sheer scale of these demands is getting absurd. There's a teacher shortage breaking the entire education system, we're coming off a pandemic that broke the healthcare system, the mental health crisis is so far gone that we can't even begin to produce solutions, fentanyl killed over 600 people in Milwaukee alone last year, it's a city with very deep social issues around race and poverty, a city that has major infrastructure needs just to stay running... and these goofballs want the public to hand over four hundred and fifty million dollars to renovate a baseball stadium?

At some point the only way to win is not to play the game. **** it, Brewers baseball isn't the thing standing between Milwaukee having a bright future or not. It's not even in the top 20. It would be an absolute slap in the face to the teachers/nurses/cops/firefighters/social workers/homeless/taxpayers/everybody to give away that kind of public money to a private entertainment company. **** that on a lot of levels.

 

[StreetHawk]

The sheer scale of these demands is getting absurd. There's a teacher shortage breaking the entire education system, we're coming off a pandemic that broke the healthcare system, the mental health crisis is so far gone that we can't even begin to produce solutions, fentanyl killed over 600 people in Milwaukee alone last year, it's a city with very deep social issues around race and poverty, a city that has major infrastructure needs just to stay running... and these goofballs want the public to hand over four hundred and fifty million dollars to renovate a baseball stadium?

At some point the only way to win is not to play the game. **** it, Brewers baseball isn't the thing standing between Milwaukee having a bright future or not. It's not even in the top 20. It would be an absolute slap in the face to the teachers/nurses/cops/firefighters/social workers/homeless/taxpayers/everybody to give away that kind of public money to a private entertainment company. **** that on a lot of levels.

Also insulting that the Brewers themselves have not been putting funds aside each season to pay for this renovation. Stadium opened in 2001, so 22 years now. If you put aside $15 mill per year, that's $330 mill they'd have saved up for this renovation.

 

[GindyDraws]

Only types of cities, I could see footing the bill for a stadium would be those markets without pro sports teams. Like somewhere in Kentucky, South Carolina, Alabama, Virginia, etc. Question then is whether those markets generate the revenue needed to sustain an MLB team.

Location is the number one thing for any pro sports team. MLB, with 81 home games, need to be centrally located for the fans.

Let's be realistic; in terms of media market and fan size, you need enough people to justify attendance. Sure, a place that does not have any sports teams would love to put the cart before the horse but how long before the honeymoon phase ends?

 

[StreetHawk]

Let's be realistic; in terms of media market and fan size, you need enough people to justify attendance. Sure, a place that does not have any sports teams would love to put the cart before the horse but how long before the honeymoon phase ends?

Completely agree. Don't see a desire by cities with other pro sports to bend over for MLB or any other league anymore. You do that for 1 team, the others will come asking too down the line.

And those other markets without pro teams, still comes down to economics and there is a reason they don't have pro teams.

 

[Bucky_Hoyt]

The Brewers have about 3.4 million people to draw from within the accessible counties on their side of the border, their market is just fine.

People from Wisconsin aren't coming to Chicago to support one of our teams, the cultural divide from a sports perspective is far too strong.

Exactly!

I'm a life-long Cubs fan and can safely say there is NO WAY Brewers fans would defect to either of Chicago's MLB teams. Remember that the Brewers played in the American League for over 30 years and did not get along with the WhiteSox. Definitely no love loss for the Cubs, especially in recent years or even back in the Milwaukee Braves years.

This is smoke and nothing more.

Their building is aging but could easily see going another 15 years with all this posturing before it got to Rays/A's territory. Same BS is happening in Baltimore and Camden is basically the blueprint for modern Baseball Stadia.

 

[Bucky_Hoyt]

Montreal could renovate reconfigure Perceval stadium into a baseball stadium and send the Alouettes back to the Big O

The rumored site is Peel Basin. It's not far from downtown and they'd be looking to add a stop on their repurposed train line.

 

[Bucky_Hoyt]

I said it in another Oakland thread, because we were talking about how there kinda NEEDS to be two teams in the Bay Area because that market is so huge..

When you don't look at MSAs or CSAs, but really who's in the accessible region... A 70-mile radius around Oakland has about 14 million people in it (SF, SJ, SAC, Stockton, Modesto, Napa, Sonoma, Santa Cruz, etc).

But the same 70-mile radius around the northern suburbs of Chicago has about 12m people in it... and Milwaukee, which is a THIRD MLB TEAM.

One franchise moved to Milwaukee and then left for greener financial pastures in Atlanta.

The Brewers exist because Kansas City threatened baseball over the A's moving and the AL expanded hastily to KC and SEA, but Seattle just wasn't ready yet so Bud Selig bought the Pilots franchise for Milwaukee.

The Brewers are an incredibly charming franchise, with an old logo on par with the Hartford Whalers, so no one wants them to move. But they've also been an incredibly "small-market, poor" franchise that has success via really smart executives (Who they usually can't keep. Stearns is probably taking over the Mets in December).

Of course, it sucks for anyone to lose their team, but the reality is that the Chicagoland-Milwaukee corridor should have TWO teams, not three; and the Bay Area should have two and not one.

Most of that area adjacent to the Bay (San Jaoquin Delta) will be under water by the end of the century so 14m may be a stretch long-term.

You are likely to see migration patterns shift towards cities in the center of the continent so Milwaukee, Chicago and other Mid-West cities may end up growing.

If the Bay Area has a 2nd team again it may need to be in San Jose.

 

[joelef]

MLB is trying to become the 4th largest sport by the end of the decade...

Well the nhl marketing department won’t let them.

Completely agree. Don't see a desire by cities with other pro sports to bend over for MLB or any other league anymore. You do that for 1 team, the others will come asking too down the line.

And those other markets without pro teams, still comes down to economics and there is a reason they don't have pro teams.

Another thing is that these leagues don’t want to play in temporary weird makeshift Venues like the dodgers and the la coliseum. Baseballl stadium have to be baseball specific.

 

[Voight]

Oof. Wisconsin might have to cave on that one. Milwaukee is a place that is fortunate that got their team 50+ years ago. If the MLB leaves, they’ll likely never go back.

Sith Lord Selig will not allow that to happen.

He may be "retired" but he 100% still has major pull at MLB HQ.

 

[Voight]

The good old “ we need tax money or we’re leaving” grift

It works every time. No governor/mayor wants a stain on their legacy as the person who let a professional sports team walk out the door.

Look at the Flames. They pulled out of an arena deal, signed a new one with better terms for them 18 months later.

 

[Bucky_Hoyt]

Well the nhl marketing department won’t let them.


Another thing is that these leagues don’t want to play in temporary weird makeshift Venues like the dodgers and the la coliseum. Baseballl stadium have to be baseball specific.

Maybe other AAA parks are used in the same way the A's will do with the Aviators? Nashville and Charlotte have 10k plus AAA parks and probably couldn't fit a baseball field in their NFL or MLS stadiums. Sacramento's AAA park is 10k-ish but you'll probably need to wear a snorkel in a few decades to attend games.

It's honestly not a long list and would probably only be agreed to if another relocation of a bombed out and depleted team like the A's was on the table. Not a great look for MLB.

Then there's the "might have worked temporarily but can't now" crowd. Portland's former AAA stadium has been converted to Soccer and probably couldn't fit a field properly. Vancouver's CFL/MLS stadium renos resulted in a giant scoreboard hanging from the roof and a left field foul line at like 275ft. Janky at best like the old Exhibition stadium days of the Blue Jays.

Otherwise, it's the Big Owe in Montreal or the Oakland Coliseum. Man, wouldn't either of those be ironic.

 

[Voight]

Calgary made the mistake of surrendering to Flames owners and it's going to haunt us for decades. Wisconsin taxpayers have to stand up now and demand that officials refuse any requests for tax dollars. If the Brewers move they move. It sucks but that tax money should be going to higher priorities.


Is Montreal in the market for a team or is that just propaganda to help get teams what they need from local and state governments?

Good luck. The governor and mayor do want to be known as the people who let the Brewers pack up & leave.