News Article: "...Miller may have eyes set on Ducks."

[Natey]

It's just so damn frustrating to have given up so much and seen Miller basically do no better than Halak. Which of course, is exactly why I only wanted Miller if he was cheap. I just never saw him as much of an upgrade.

Basically no better? You mean far worse?

Halak: 39 decisions, 69% of total points (51 out of 74), .917 SV%, 2.23 GAA, 4 SO
Miller: 19 decisions, 55% of total points (21 out of 38), .903 SV%, 2.47 GAA, 1 SO

Halak is a very good goalie who had some injury trouble and he's not the most consistent guy, but overall he's a top goalie in the league. Miller is solid, but he's never really proven he's head over heels better than Jaro. The Blues give up too few shots to expect too much better, IMO.

Trading Halak for Miller was a mistake, even without including all the extra stuff the Blues threw in.

 

[Vladys Gumption]

Basically no better? You mean far worse?

Halak: 39 decisions, 69% of total points (51 out of 74), .917 SV%, 2.23 GAA, 4 SO
Miller: 19 decisions, 55% of total points (21 out of 38), .903 SV%, 2.47 GAA, 1 SO

Halak is a very good goalie who had some injury trouble and he's not the most consistent guy, but overall he's a top goalie in the league. Miller is solid, but he's never really proven he's head over heels better than Jaro. The Blues give up too few shots to expect too much better, IMO.

Trading Halak for Miller was a mistake, even without including all the extra stuff the Blues threw in.

No, he's basically no better. He's not far worse. He got totally screwed the last five games because half the team was healthy. Prior to that his numbers looked much better. But I wouldn't have argued he was much better at that point. You can't use a 20 game sample size to argue Miller is "far worse." Try looking at the career numbers. They're pretty close to identical.

 

[Natey]

No, he's basically no better. He's not far worse. He got totally screwed the last five games because half the team was healthy. Prior to that his numbers looked much better. But I wouldn't have argued he was much better at that point. You can't use a 20 game sample size to argue Miller is "far worse." Try looking at the career numbers. They're pretty close to identical.

The numbers I posted like 5 posts ago? Where Halak has better career and playoff numbers?

Miller is a solid goalie, but the Blues could have kept Halak on the cheap to stick around and given up nothing.

Just my opinion.

 

[Vladys Gumption]

The numbers I posted like 5 posts ago? Where Halak has better career and playoff numbers?

Miller is a solid goalie, but the Blues could have kept Halak on the cheap to stick around and given up nothing.

Just my opinion.

Listen, Miller has played on some truly horrific Buffalo teams the last couple of years. I'm sure that hasn't helped his overall numbers. I doubt you'd find many around hockey who think Halak is better than Miller. Miller is better, if only slightly. Having said that, he absolutely was not worth giving up as much as we did, because goaltending was not the primary issue that needed addressing. I already said that in my previous posts.

 

[Thallis]

Listen, Miller has played on some truly horrific Buffalo teams the last couple of years. I'm sure that hasn't helped his overall numbers. I doubt you'd find many around hockey who think Halak is better than Miller. Miller is better, if only slightly. Having said that, he absolutely was not worth giving up as much as we did, because goaltending was not the primary issue that needed addressing. I already said that in my previous posts.

Buffalo was less than 10 points away from a playoff spot last season and probably could have made it if he was better than average. The year before they were 3 points away from a playoff spot and again would have likely made it if he was better than average. This is the first year Buffalo has been worse than average, and it only helped his numbers. This idea that Buffalo has been horrific and only won because of Miller is revisionist history at best.

 

[RR10*]

Can't believe some people actually think Halak is better than Miller. Halak was awful most of the time, and I can only imagine how awful he would be on this years Buffalo team, while Miller did great there. Miller hasn't been good lately with the Blues but that has much to do with all the injuries and lousy play by the whole team. He's an Olympic goalie ffs. Halak was brutal with Slovakia.

What bothers me more is that we gave up Perron and Stewart for nothing. A year ago we could have gotten a solid peace for them, like Seguin or Spezza.

 

[Vladys Gumption]

Can't believe some people actually think Halak is better than Miller. Halak was awful most of the time, and I can only imagine how awful he would be on this years Buffalo team, while Miller did great there. Miller hasn't been good lately with the Blues but that has much to do with all the injuries and lousy play by the whole team. He's an Olympic goalie ffs. Halak was brutal with Slovakia.

What bothers me more is that we gave up Perron and Stewart for nothing. A year ago we could have gotten a solid peace for them, like Seguin or Spezza.

There's literally one guy saying that Halak is better than Miller. The rest of us are saying the he upgrade was marginal and not worth the price, which is absolutely true. Perron and Stewart wouldn't have gotten Spezza's or Seguin. There's a little thing called the salary cap that would prevent that.

 

[Vladys Gumption]

Buffalo was less than 10 points away from a playoff spot last season and probably could have made it if he was better than average. The year before they were 3 points away from a playoff spot and again would have likely made it if he was better than average. This is the first year Buffalo has been worse than average, and it only helped his numbers. This idea that Buffalo has been horrific and only won because of Miller is revisionist history at best.

I never said they only won because of Miller. I said they were truly horrific, which probably didn't help his numbers. It's not rocket science. I watched them a lot last year and their defense was barely AHL caliber. They gave up an insane amount of quality chances.

 

[bleedblue1223]

Perron and Stewart never would've gotten Seguin and Spezza of the past only if Perron and Stewart were coming off good seasons, and that only happened with Perron when he returned from injury.

 

[Vladys Gumption]

Exactly. People forget that Louis Eriksson was a perennial 70 point player up until his concussion issues this year. And he was just part of a package to get Seguin. Stewart and Perron wouldn't have beat that package

 

[Bad Goalie]

Buffalo was less than 10 points away from a playoff spot last season and probably could have made it if he was better than average. The year before they were 3 points away from a playoff spot and again would have likely made it if he was better than average. This is the first year Buffalo has been worse than average, and it only helped his numbers. This idea that Buffalo has been horrific and only won because of Miller is revisionist history at best.

I've heard some logical arguments here both pro and con for Miller, but this one I must step in on. Last season Miller faced more shots than any other goalie in the NHL and if you watched those games, they were SHOTS ON GOAL! He wasn't facing perimeter shots or long angle shots or dump ins on goal. We are talking point blank shots, give aways in the slot, guys walking right to the net from anywhere as nobody stopped them, countless odd man rushes and breakaways. 45-50 shots a night was commonplace. They finished 10 point from the playoffs because of him playing SO WELL. His team was terrible. Why do you think management blew it up?

Miller may not be your panacea, but don't throw the one of the best the legue has to offer under the bus before the puck is even dropped. The Blues' problem has been scoring goals at PO time and until they overcome that hurdle Miller, Halak, or whomever won't matter.

 

[Bad Goalie]

I never said they only won because of Miller. I said they were truly horrific, which probably didn't help his numbers. It's not rocket science. I watched them a lot last year and their defense was barely AHL caliber. They gave up an insane amount of quality chances.

The team this year was even worse! When the coaching change took place, Miller started them winning again. Fans in Buffalo wanted him to sit because he might ruin the tank. Then the trade. Look at their record after he left. It was like 2 wins in their last twenty some games. Miller is not going to win the Blues a cup unless the Blues earn a cup. However, he just might steal you one or two that may just get you a bigger shot at it.

 

[Natey]

Can't believe some people actually think Halak is better than Miller. Halak was awful most of the time, and I can only imagine how awful he would be on this years Buffalo team, while Miller did great there. Miller hasn't been good lately with the Blues but that has much to do with all the injuries and lousy play by the whole team. He's an Olympic goalie ffs. Halak was brutal with Slovakia.

What bothers me more is that we gave up Perron and Stewart for nothing. A year ago we could have gotten a solid peace for them, like Seguin or Spezza.

Halak was awesome at the last Olympics. Is that really your defense? If so, the Latvian goalie is one of the best in the world.

Halak has always been a guy to excel when he faces a crazy amount of rubber. In Buffalo, he'd have done well.

I'm not saying Halak is high and mighty above Miller, but given age and price.. I take Halak every time.

 

[Vladys Gumption]

Halak was awesome at the last Olympics. Is that really your defense? If so, the Latvian goalie is one of the best in the world.

Halak has always been a guy to excel when he faces a crazy amount of rubber. In Buffalo, he'd have done well.

I'm not saying Halak is high and mighty above Miller, but given age and price.. I take Halak every time.

I really hope you're talking about 2010, because Halak was absolutely horrific in Sochi.

 

[Natey]

I really hope you're talking about 2010, because Halak was absolutely horrific in Sochi.

Yes, hence last. I didn't think Sochi would be called last yet.

 

[bleedblue1223]

We get it, but with Miller's small sample size, he has been no better or worse than Halak or Elliott. All 3 have had great stretches of games and poor stretches of games. Time will tell in the playoffs if Miller is an upgrade or not. Miller should get some blame for his poor stretch, but just like last season when Halak and Elliott struggled, the team has been hanging him out to dry most of the time.

 

[HockeyGuy73]

All these opinions are valid, both pro and anti trade. But the truth is, the trade will not be able to be truly judged until the Blues have played their last playoff game. When Halak was on, he was one of the best in the game. But when he was off, he was horrible, giving up goals from terrible angles, and at horrible times(Right after we scored, last minute of a period, etc.) I am personally not going to judge Miller on the last 10 games or so, because not just the injuries, but the team as a whole was terrible. It is very possible for this team to regroup with these 4 days off, and get it cranked up for tomorrow night.

 

[Vladys Gumption]

Yes, hence last. I didn't think Sochi would be called last yet.

Well it is the most recently completed olympics. Nitpicking, I know.

 

[Daley Tarasenkshow]

The numbers I posted like 5 posts ago? Where Halak has better career and playoff numbers?

Miller is a solid goalie, but the Blues could have kept Halak on the cheap to stick around and given up nothing.

Just my opinion.

Do you watch Blues hockey? Halak has been victim to a terrific defense and some stretches that are considered the best in Blues history. Miller began his Blues career with that same lineup, and was like 9-1-1 his first ten with this team. Part of the reason his stats aren't the best is because the last 5 games of the season was basically a joke with injuries and no good play with the team in front of him.

Halak has better stats but Miller is the better goalie. He makes bigger saves, and he's more consistent. Halak has easily been riding a dominant team when he plays.

In order to grade goalies, one has to watch both and not just look at stats.

 

[HockeyMomx2]

Can't believe some people actually think Halak is better than Miller. Halak was awful most of the time, and I can only imagine how awful he would be on this years Buffalo team, while Miller did great there. Miller hasn't been good lately with the Blues but that has much to do with all the injuries and lousy play by the whole team. He's an Olympic goalie ffs. Halak was brutal with Slovakia.

What bothers me more is that we gave up Perron and Stewart for nothing. A year ago we could have gotten a solid peace for them, like Seguin or Spezza.

But if it was a goalie your FO was trying to get at that point, there's no way a deal for Sequin would have happened. We don't need a goalie now, next year or really for the next 5 years or so and even then we'll only need a replacement for Subban down in Providence.

Anyways - been fun watching this series, been even more fun watching you guys take 2 so far from Chicago.

 

[Galchenioretty]

Do you watch Blues hockey? Halak has been victim to a terrific defense and some stretches that are considered the best in Blues history. Miller began his Blues career with that same lineup, and was like 9-1-1 his first ten with this team. Part of the reason his stats aren't the best is because the last 5 games of the season was basically a joke with injuries and no good play with the team in front of him.

Halak has better stats but Miller is the better goalie. He makes bigger saves, and he's more consistent. Halak has easily been riding a dominant team when he plays.

In order to grade goalies, one has to watch both and not just look at stats.

Pretty sure this guy used to patrol the Habs forum saying Halak > Price, so you're not going to win this one.

 

[Robb_K]

Listen, Miller has played on some truly horrific Buffalo teams the last couple of years. I'm sure that hasn't helped his overall numbers. I doubt you'd find many around hockey who think Halak is better than Miller. Miller is better, if only slightly. Having said that, he absolutely was not worth giving up as much as we did, because goaltending was not the primary issue that needed addressing. I already said that in my previous posts.

This is exactly my feeling, and I have stated so several times. And STILL, despite his looking great on a lot of his saves, he has also let in a fair amount of goals on stoppable shots. I never thought of himas as a "Top 5 NHL goalie", and based on what I've seen of him, I still don't. Unless he starts playing WHOLE GAMES like he did in the 2nd Philadelphia game, I'd just as soon The Blues not re-sign him.

 

[superblues]

I'm conflicted with how i feel about Miller. I really wish I knew this organization's plans for Miller.

If Miller is supposed to be a long-term solution, I truly think he will get better with more time in our system.
If Miller is supposed to be a quick fix rental, I have no problem letting him walk.

At the end of the day, I don't think we need Miller going forward. I'd rather have another goalie in the same tier as Halak (but not Halak, specifically) with Elliott or Allen backing up.

 

[Thallis]

I'm conflicted with how i feel about Miller. I really wish I knew this organization's plans for Miller.

If Miller is supposed to be a long-term solution, I truly think he will get better with more time in our system.
If Miller is supposed to be a quick fix rental, I have no problem letting him walk.

At the end of the day, I don't think we need Miller going forward. I'd rather have another goalie in the same tier as Halak (but not Halak, specifically) with Elliott or Allen backing up.

Would you be willing to bet $26 Million or more on this?

 

[DeuceNine]

If Miller is supposed to be a long-term solution, I truly think he will get better with more time in our system.

I don't have a problem with having a "system" goalie, ala Marc Bulger as a "system QB" for the Rams a few years back. It works to some degree.

The problem is cost. We're good enough (most of the time) where we need our goalies to steal maybe what, five games a year? The issue is in the playoffs, where that number climbs or, more specifically, it could be required any given night. Given the projected cost and what we just saw, small sample size and all, Miller simply isn't needed or wanted. We lack true finishers, and we lost the series due to that. Absolutely no doubt in my mind we would have done at least as well in net with Ells and Halak. Won potentially, especially those games that were closer than they needed to be. I project a 4-1 series win with a true finisher up front.