Mikko Rantanen is the most underrated player in the league (by far)

[cgf]

It is, however, a part of Norway.

They’re all basically Germans who are just really bad at German

 

[MrThomas]

Finland is part of Russia

 

[jvcjdudu jcycyxjene]

Finland is part of Russia

It was until the Swedes/Prussians liberated them under Frederick the Great of Poland-Lithuania.

 

[tuozzi]

MacKinnon makes only 400k a year more and is signed until 22-23

Barkov is signed until 21-22, and assuming Barkov keeps playing well, and the cap keeps going up, Barkovs 22-23 season will cost 10m+

Oh!? Didn't know MacKinnon is on such a great contract as well. Makes sense I guess, he started his career kinda slow (relative to what he turned out to be)

Anyway, apologies for talking out of my ***. I'll get me coat..

 

[gwh]

It was until the Swedes/Prussians liberated them under Frederick the Great of Poland-Lithuania.

You guys need some history lessons? Swede called Jarl Birger did the 2nd crusade into Finland proper about 1238 that joined the independent Tavastland to Sweden. This is commonly understood to be the start of Swedish reign in Finland. See the map below: 1st crusade is red, 2nd crusade is green and 3rd crusade is blue.

 

[gwh]

Finland is not part of Scandinavia at all

Techinically the scandinavian mountain range goes through the the north Finland. However, Scandinavian definition is originates from pan scandinavism, the usage is pretty racist.

Nobody in Finland wants anything to do with that.

 

[MMANumminen]

Finland is part of Russia

Try to tell this joke in Finland.

 

[MMANumminen]

Techinically the scandinavian mountain range goes through the the north Finland. However, Scandinavian definition is originates from pan scandinavism, the usage is pretty racist.

Nobody in Finland wants anything to do with that.

What's racist? This word gets thrown around too often....
I'd say almost third of the finns believe they're part of scandinavia..because of skandies mountains

 

[gwh]

What's racist? This word gets thrown around too often....
I'd say almost third of the finns believe they're part of scandinavia..because of skandies mountains

Outside the swedish speaking finns almost nobody.

The definition is race based, thus it is racist. And by race I mean "pan-germanic" type of combination of early genetics and mythological lore.

 

[RageQuit77]

Yes. Off-topical as hell.

You guys need some history lessons? Swede called Jarl Birger did the 2nd crusade into Finland proper about 1238 that joined the independent Tavastland to Sweden. This is commonly understood to be the start of Swedish reign in Finland. See the map below: 1st crusade is red, 2nd crusade is green and 3rd crusade is blue.

There are lot of historically hazy things with these "crusades".

Christianity had already spread at least to Finland Proper (Varsinais-Suomi) some 100 or 200 years before those "crusades". Swedish kings needed justification for their annexion, and nothing was better in that time and context than that. Kings of Häme weren't that delighted and put up good fight for sometime.

So called 2nd crusade is mostly a story written by "victors" of limited scale/inexistent warfare for propaganda purposes, in the situation where they "invade" essentially christian people that have had centuries long contacts with Birka, as example.

But generally speaking christianisation of Finland was rather peaceful event in wider historical scenes, initiated by late-viking age/early mid-age commercial traffic. For example Estonians made much harder resistance.

ADD: Note that 3rd crusade was mostly directed against influence of Novgorod and eastern Ortodox Christian expansion. Karelia and vast parts of Savo (that was mostly uninhabitated frontier) were under influence of Novgorod. The front of Kingdom of Häme was toward east, and for Novgorod, Häme was the worst enemy at NW-west direction. Savilahti (Mikkeli these days) was frontier out post against Häme (becoming later mixed population place and the heart of expansion in a process habitation of Savo.

Häme put probably a token resistance against Swedish "christian" invasion only because local noblemen wanted to get some benefits for their more or less voluntary annexion. Which were granted, I'm sure.

ADD2: If we want search "true historical borders" between Sweden (later Finland) and Novgorod (later Russia), they were set at Nöteborg 1323, effectively ending that phase of nearly continuous hundreds years long border war between these powers... that was going to follow. --> Treaty of Nöteborg - Wikipedia

Dozens of wars were fought for and over this small, swampy piece of Land called Finland, ever since...

 

[The Kingslayer]

I dont think hes underrated any more.

 

[MightySelanne8]

When reading this topic, one could guess Rantanen was leading the crusades in the early 1200s.

That Avs topline is just dirty they will give McDavid a run for his Art Ross if all 3 stay healthy.

 

[RorschachWJK]

It was until the Swedes/Prussians liberated them under Frederick the Great of Poland-Lithuania.

What the bloody hell?

 

[RorschachWJK]

Finland is not part of Scandinavia at all

The correct term is Fennoscandia.

In geographic and geological terms, Denmark has nothing to do with the rest of Scandinavia either. So it is really a linguistic/cultural definition.

 

[RorschachWJK]

The correct term is Fennoscandia.

In geographic and geological terms, Denmark has nothing to do with the rest of Scandinavia either. So it is really a linguistic/cultural definition.

In other words, it is a very vague thing, a line drawn in water. Might as well include the west and south coasts of Finland too. And remove Sami areas of northern Sweden and Norway while your at it.

 

[strictlyrandy]

Rantanen still gets underrated by people who say he's nothing without MacK, but certainly not the most underrated player anymore. He's getting recognized for sure. He put a spotlight on himself and is keeping it there.

 

[Esko6]

What's racist? This word gets thrown around too often....
I'd say almost third of the finns believe they're part of scandinavia..because of skandies mountains

It is tied to an early 1900s Swedish idea of Finns being an inferior race of asian mongrels. Axel Freudenthal was a big pusher of it.

 

[Conspiracy Theorist]

Genghis Khan was pretty badass.

 

[gwh]

It is tied to an early 1900s Swedish idea of Finns being an inferior race of asian mongrels. Axel Freudenthal was a big pusher of it.

And a carbon copy of "pan-germanism", which progressed into the nazi ideology. Whole lot of good juice in there.

However, next summer Rantanen will raid the COL coffers like it is 1293. If Panarin gets 10mil, Rantanen outscoring McJesus will get him 12million or similar.

 

[TheNumber4]

Is Rantanen better than Matthews? Look's like it so far through their young careers.

 

[RageQuit77]

It is tied to an early 1900s Swedish idea of Finns being an inferior race of asian mongrels. Axel Freudenthal was a big pusher of it.

Early '1900 Swedish idea' about Finns (by Nationalists) ignored the fact that large part of their 1600s armies that fought for the Kingdom were ethnic Finns. There are strong correlation between successes in wars and proportion of Finnish troops participating.

For balance and objectivity, Finnish nationalists particularly, always remember to remind about that: Haccapelite -Cult. What they do not remember to mention is that there was no national identity as 'Finn' in those days long gone by. There was a mess of more or less mixed localities and descentants of speakers of some Baltic Finnic dialect, and those tribes lived on vast areas of both belligerents (Sweden and Russia, Baltic states) often also fighting against each other.

"Our [Finnish] Hakkapelites cannot have been any sort of fine representatives. I should mention a parade of the Gustaf Adolf troops in the Thirty Years' War, while the king still lived. At first went the blue, yellow, green etc. mercenaries of the regiment in their flashy gear. Then came, clothed so-so, bridles and baldricks repaired with birch bark and cord, legs hanging from the backs of their small, shaggy horses, cutlasses dragging on the ground, a troop of hollow-cheeked but stern-eyed men. When the Dutch ambassador inquired who they were, the last rider, a fat German Quartermaster [kuormastovääpeli] in charge of the cargo proudly replied "The royal Life Guards: Finnish, pärkkele!".

Finn-born soldiers fought and died for their King, just like did their Swedish brothers-in-arms. That Finnish NCOs of Swedish armies had to use Finnish as their command tongue is obvious: "Hakkaa päälle Suomen poika!" that became "Haccapelite" in an ears of both their Swedish speaking high ranks as well as enemies.

However, As a Finn myself I found it hilarious when we talk about "How Mama Sweden will always continue to fight... until the last Finn." There are some historical reality backing up that.

But, but... all of this is off topic. Lol!

 

[Conspiracy Theorist]

Is Rantanen better than Matthews? Look's like it so far through their young careers.

Rantanen and Laine I think.

 

[Jugitsu]

Is Rantanen better than Matthews? Look's like it so far through their young careers.

Why always Matthews? Rantanen certainly has been more efficient these past 100 games. But is he better? I don't think so. I'm not one of those who thinks Rantanen is nothing without MacKinnon, but Matthews has one of the deadliest shots in the game, has a rare 'nose for scoring' and is a center (and a good one at that). Pure talent and skill wise I think they are in the same tier or at least close but healthy Matthews is someone I'd pick for my team any day of the week and twice on Sunday.

 

[TheNumber4]

Why always Matthews? Rantanen certainly has been more efficient these past 100 games. But is he better? I don't think so. I'm not one of those who thinks Rantanen is nothing without MacKinnon, but Matthews has one of the deadliest shots in the game, has a rare 'nose for scoring' and is a center (and a good one at that). Pure talent and skill wise I think they are in the same tier or at least close but healthy Matthews is someone I'd pick for my team any day of the week and twice on Sunday.

Need to take into account production. I mean they don't give Art Rosses for Matthews' level production. But they do for Rantanen level. Pretty logical conclusion when you go from there. Durability also matters, look at Lindros, if not for the injuries he really was the "next one." So who's more durable?

 

[Jugitsu]

Need to take into account production. I mean they don't give Art Rosses for Matthews' level production. But they do for Rantanen level. Pretty logical conclusion when you go from there. Durability also matters, look at Lindros, if not for the injuries he really was the "next one." So who's more durable?

Sure but we have really only scratched the surface on what Matthews can do. Those shoulder injuries are more unlucky than anything else, he was PPG player last year and over PPG player at the start of this season. Besides so far Matthews has been more of a Rocket Richard level productive which is something I value more than Art Ross, unless the difference is couple of goals, which it hasn't been. I get the arguments for and against for both players but I'm still way more inclined to take one of the best centers in the game rather than one of the best wingers in the game. Especially when the first is a perennial candidate for Rocket Richard.