Prospect Info: Mikhail Grigorenko (2012, 12th) – '14-15: Rochester #25 (AHL) – Part 4: Traded to Avs

[jBuds]

I just fail to see how the two various sides of the debates (Reinhart vs. Grigorenko) have to be competing: one or the other. Just talk about the two players separately.

I thought Grigorenko played very well - well enough to the point where if the staff kept him up, I would have been fine with it. But they went the long term route, sent him down to be top dawg.

Reinhart wasn't overly impressive in ways you expect from a top two player. That's the bottom line. Yes, his cerebral game is astounding... Blatantly off the charts and ahead of kids his age and many pros. Already. But he was so clearly not ready physically, that - just as I would've been with going the other way with Grigs - had they sent Reinhart down, I would have been okay with it. Especially if that was what our professional staff deemed the best route.

Reinhart didn't look ready to play. He very much looked ready to learn and be with the team and continue to grow game by game as he has this preseason. Being ready to play and being ready to be here aren't the same thing to me.

Bottom line for me: fine how it played out and am anxious to see how Grigorenko responds - both on the ice with the anticipated major role, and off the ice with confidence, maturity and handling adversity.

Click to read more...

 

[joshjull]

I just fail to see how the two various sides of the debates (Reinhart vs. Grigorenko) have to be competing: one or the other. Just talk about the two players separately.

I thought Grigorenko played very well - well enough to the point where if the staff kept him up, I would have been fine with it. But they went the long term route, sent him down to be top dawg.

Reinhart wasn't overly impressive in ways you expect from a top two player. That's the bottom line. Yes, his cerebral game is astounding... Blatantly off the charts and ahead of kids his age and many pros. Already. But he was so clearly not ready physically, that - just as I would've been with going the other way with Grigs - had they sent Reinhart down, I would have been okay with it. Especially if that was what our professional staff deemed the best route.

Reinhart didn't look ready to play. He very much looked ready to learn and be with the team and continue to grow game by game as he has this preseason. Being ready to play and being ready to be here aren't the same thing to me.

Bottom line for me: fine how it played out and am anxious to see how Grigorenko responds - both on the ice with the anticipated major role, and off the ice with confidence, maturity and handling adversity.

I don't get it either

 

[Zman5778]

I just fail to see how the two various sides of the debates (Reinhart vs. Grigorenko) have to be competing: one or the other.

You're not the only one.......

 

[FamilyGuy716]

I thought Grigorenko deserved to stay BUT all he has to do is dominate in Rochester and he'll be back up in no time. It's not like he won't be helped by going down to the AHL.

I'm psyched by Grigorenko's progress and having another future top 6 center on this team to go along with Reinhart who improved every shift. The future is bright and we just need to remain patient.

 

[jBuds]

So, is anyone else excited to see Larsson-Grigorenko-Armia?

Cassiddy is smart enough to try that?

 

[HOOats]

Quote:
Originally Posted by HOOats View Post
Hold on. Grigs is supposed to be better than Reinhart because he's two years out from his draft?

Which of these 20yo 7th-16ths were better than their 18yo top-3 counterparts? I count maybe 1-2.

2013: Mac, Barkov
2011: Scheifele, Couturier, Baertschi, JT Miller, Armia

2012: Yak, Galchenyuk
2010: Skinner, Burmi, Granlund, Schwartz, Tarasenko

2011: Nuge, Landeskog
2009: Kadri, Glennie, MPS, Kassian, Holland

2010: Hall, Seguin
2008: Boedker, Bailey, Hodgson, Beach, Boychuk

2009: Tavares, Duchene
2007: Voracek, Hamill, Couture, Sutter, Eller, Gillies

2008: Stamkos
2006: Brassard, Okposo, Mueller, Sheppard, Frolik, Little, Tlusty

Now I'd like to figure out what the fact that Grigo has indeed been better than Reinhart means. Grigo being underdrafted? Grigo developing very well over 2 years? 2014 an especially weak class? 2012 one of the stronger drafts in a decade?

"Jame said"
****** you just made the argument for Reinhart going right to the NHL, and Grigorenko needing some AHL seasoning... and didn't even realize it...

oh and the bolded are pretty funny statements}}}

How so? Because the lower picks needed more seasoning in the past? We clearly aren't dealing with a situation like those. We have the most indistinguishable top-3 18yo and 7-16 20yo. Grigo is the only one who is better than the two years younger high picks.

Joshjull do you have any response to this? After all it was your assertion that Grigo should be better based on a 2-year age advantage. Two years doesn't usually allow the 12th pick to close the gap on the most recent top forward drafting.

 

[kenfury]

Cassiddy is smart enough to try that?

There is something we can all get behind and agree on. Our dislike of Cassiddy. JBuds bringing HFboards together.

 

[DazedandConfused]

It's really weird to compare them when they were in direct competition for the same spot. Why on earth would we do that?

That mightve been how media and some fans played it out. But anybody whose been paying attention to Murray knew this was going to be happening.
This is the only move and there's no question aboot it.

 

[Gabrielor]

Really liked Grigo's training camp. That said, I figured he was Roch-bound all along. It's simply the best place for him to continue his development right now.

 

[Jacob582]

That mightve been how media and some fans played it out. But anybody whose been paying attention to Murray knew this was going to be happening.
This is the only move and there's no question aboot it.

Murray hasn't been speaking everyday of training camp. It was Nolan with his message that players needed to earn their spot.

Do you think that Grigorenko felt there was no chance that he could make the team?

You are right. There really are no surprises on the roster from what Murray had said. We pretty much knew this roster before training camp started.

 

[DazedandConfused]

Murray hasn't been speaking everyday of training camp. It was Nolan with his message that players needed to earn their spot.

Do you think that Grigorenko felt there was no chance that he could make the team?

You are right. There really are no surprises on the roster from what Murray had said. We pretty much knew this roster before training camp started.

Of course grigorenko should come into camp thinking he can make the team. As with anybody else vying for a spot.

But, from a development standpoint it makes more sense to have him start in Roch and Reinhart in Buffalo. It's a long season, who knows how it all plays out.

 

[JLewyB]

This CHL-NHL agreement has really screwed Grigs. Since he was 18, the best place for him was probably the AHL. But now, when he has shown that he is NHL ready, they choose Reinhart over him because Samson can't go to the A. In a perfect world, either both start in Rochester or Grigs is the one in the NHL.

 

[CatsforReinhart]

This CHL-NHL agreement has really screwed Grigs. Since he was 18, the best place for him was probably the AHL. But now, when he has shown that he is NHL ready, they choose Reinhart over him because Samson can't go to the A. In a perfect world, either both start in Rochester or Grigs is the one in the NHL.

I agree, it will take a player suing the CHL/NHL despite their career being put in jeopardy. I Think exemptions should be make for teams such 1st round picks every two years you are allowed exemptions...something like that. I am surprised a player has not tried to get around the agreement with some sort of labour lawsuit claiming it is "unconstitutional" to deny them the right to work in any league they can. Of course the lawsuit would be in the USA.

 

[Revelate]

So Grigorenko is with Armia right? Chadddddd says WRONG. He's skating with Irwin and Samuels-Thomas.

 

[TheMistyStranger]

So Grigorenko is with Armia right? Chadddddd says WRONG. He's skating with Irwin and Samuels-Thomas.

So a dead guy and jlgp2.0?

 

[joshjull]

So a dead guy and jlgp2.0?

I had the jlgp 2.0 right away but it took me a few minutes to get the dead guy reference.

 

[Djp]

So Grigorenko is with Armia right? Chadddddd says WRONG. He's skating with Irwin and Samuels-Thomas.

please fire him

 

[Jim Bob]

please fire him

I like the idea of Grigorenko not playing with a guy who is a blackhole right now.

 

[Paxon]

This CHL-NHL agreement has really screwed Grigs. Since he was 18, the best place for him was probably the AHL. But now, when he has shown that he is NHL ready, they choose Reinhart over him because Samson can't go to the A. In a perfect world, either both start in Rochester or Grigs is the one in the NHL.

I won't say it screwed him because there are so many players who would benefit from the AHL but can't go there. I think Zadorov even more is a case of a guy who should be in the pros because of his massive size. What I don't like is that these European players come over and then get locked into rules that are designed to protect the CHL. Those rules should only apply to Canadians, maybe Americans as well. These European kids make life-altering decisions at the age of 16 or 17 to leave their families and travel half-way around the world. If they play for one year or two it does nothing but make the CHL a better league. What happens if trends reverse and some talents decide to stay home or, as is become increasingly feasible imo, go to the USHL where the can then decide between the NCAA, CHL, or AHL in their post-draft seasons? The CHL could lose out on this 'bonus' talent rather than maintain it. I don't think these European minors should get locked into the CHL just because they played their draft season there, it's ridiculous.

 

[Freezerburn]

I won't say it screwed him because there are so many players who would benefit from the AHL but can't go there. I think Zadorov even more is a case of a guy who should be in the pros because of his massive size. What I don't like is that these European players come over and then get locked into rules that are designed to protect the CHL. Those rules should only apply to Canadians, maybe Americans as well. These European kids make life-altering decisions at the age of 16 or 17 to leave their families and travel half-way around the world. If they play for one year or two it does nothing but make the CHL a better league. What happens if trends reverse and some talents decide to stay home or, as is become increasingly feasible imo, go to the USHL where the can then decide between the NCAA, CHL, or AHL in their post-draft seasons? The CHL could lose out on this 'bonus' talent rather than maintain it. I don't think these European minors should get locked into the CHL just because they played their draft season there, it's ridiculous.

I think if NHL teams were allowed one exemption per season, lot of the problems would go away. Realistically, there are only a select few prospects who fit the "too good for juniors, not good enough for the NHL" storyline every year so I doubt every team would even take advantage of the option if it were provided.

 

[Sam Spade]

Hello all, I am a Caps fan who came to this thread after I heard Grigs got sent down. Just wanted to get some insight into the decision because I watched three pre-season Sabres games and in two of them he was the best forward out there. Seems very unfair to me if it is based on merit.

I don't understand all the politics or contract implications, etc., but I really hope he gets his shot soon.

 

[Paxon]

Hello all, I am a Caps fan who came to this thread after I heard Grigs got sent down. Just wanted to get some insight into the decision because I watched three pre-season Sabres games and in two of them he was the best forward out there. Seems very unfair to me if it is based on merit.

I don't understand all the politics or contract implications, etc., but I really hope he gets his shot soon.

Basically it appears they believe they only had one spot available to adequately suit the likes of Reinhart and Grigorenko developmentally. I believe the underlying notion is that they don't want Reinhart in juniors unless he simply can't hang. They want both players in the pros. This decision gets them both in the pros getting good minutes. It may not be fair but that's life, and it's a good compromise. It should also be pointed out that it wasn't really fair when Grigorenko made the team out of the past two camps at the expense of more developed players, so he can't exactly cry foul if we're looking at it from his perspective. The first forward taken in a draft has played in his post-draft season going back eons. That doesn't mean it had to happen this year, but it does go to show that those guys are given every chance to make the team.

The decision isn't final. Reinhart will surely be evaluated after each game up to #9. Grigorenko should be the first call-up if Reinhart goes down or there are injuries.

 

[Jame]

I think if NHL teams were allowed one exemption per season, lot of the problems would go away. Realistically, there are only a select few prospects who fit the "too good for juniors, not good enough for the NHL" storyline every year so I doubt every team would even take advantage of the option if it were provided.

Every team would take advantage of it

 

[goooal]

Making my first post in like a year just to say Im extremely disappointed with this decision. Its still redeemable to me, though. All depends on how Reinhart plays, how they subsequently handle that, and if Grigs is called up assuming Reinhart goes back or first call up if Reinhart plays well enough to stay.

Also, **** Cassidy.

 

[CatsforReinhart]

Every team would take advantage of it

Nothing wrong with that but it needs to be more limiting. One exempt per year is too much. One every two years or perhaps 1m dollars going to the CHL team for the exemption call it "buying the contract" that would definitely make some teams think but then again would favour the rich teams.