Mike Yeo for 4 years....

[Twisted Blue]

Im seeing some good things in the transition and Ozone. He has the Defense committed to offense and teams are having a hard time dealing with it. One thing we have over the extinct cats is a deeper forward group. All 4 lines can contribute.

What? For most of October our top six and defense made up almost all of our points. This last week Upshall and Brodziak improved their play, but this is still a two line team with contributions from the defense.

 

[Twisted Blue]

I remember when Hitchcock took over for Payne mid-season. The team really responded to him and they played great the rest of the year. They played pretty well the year after that as well. Heck, you can make a credible argument that they ultimately went on to have the greatest extended run of regular season success in team history under Hitchcock.

The core of this team is no stranger to regular season success anymore. I'm extremely pleased to see Yeo continuing that tradition, especially given the circumstances surrounding it and the magnitude of that success, but a lot of the questions his tenure here is ultimately going to be judged by have yet to be answered. Can he get playoff performances out of this group that meet the expectations set by the regular season success? How will the team respond to him when they hit an extended rut? Will his message get stale after a few years or can he keep it fresh and keep his team invested? How will he adapt as the roster continues to evolve and other teams in the league adjust to what he's doing here?

I'm enjoying this run and I certainly didn't expect it, but I kind of feel like it's important to maintain some sense of perspective about all this as well.

Especially important to maintain a sense of perspective if you didn't like the hire and believed Yeo was Hitch 2.0

 

[Dbrownss]

What? For most of October our top six and defense made up almost all of our points. This last week Upshall and Brodziak improved their play, but this is still a two line team with contributions from the defense.

Contribute doesnt mean carry. You cant count on the bottom 6 to score night in/night out. The 3rd line is getting better each game. They are getting their looks. If they look dangerous then the other team can't ignore them completely.

 

[JoshFromMO]

What? For most of October our top six and defense made up almost all of our points. This last week Upshall and Brodziak improved their play, but this is still a two line team with contributions from the defense.

Upshall and Brodziak are playing at a 37 and 31 pt pace lol, I'd say that's contributing plenty for a 4th line.

 

[EastonBlues22]

Especially important to maintain a sense of perspective if you didn't like the hire and believed Yeo was Hitch 2.0

I get that you are teasing, but on a serious note...do we know yet that he isn't?

There's major stylistic differences for sure, but in the grand scheme of things he hasn't accomplished anything here yet that Hitchcock hasn't already accomplished before him. There's ample reason for hope, which is something I readily admit that I didn't have a lot of before, but there's a big difference between having hope and counting chickens before they hatch. There are undeniably major questions about Yeo that still need to be answered. If any of them are answered negatively, people will be poking fun at the current level of optimism in much the same way that people are currently poking fun at the previous level of pessimism (which wasn't exactly unjustified at that point, either).

Some fans like riding the high and low swings. I prefer trying to avoid them (not always successfully), as it keeps me from burning out emotionally and is generally better for my long-term mental health.

 

[Bye Felicia]

My co-worker, a lifelong Wild fan, believes that Yeo's high-energy, two-way "always give it your all" style of play wears teams down by the end of the season.

I express no opinion on the matter, but I am curious to see a player like Tarasenko (who has displayed an improved all-around game thus far) fares as the season progresses.

 

[Mike Liut]

My co-worker, a lifelong Wild fan, believes that Yeo's high-energy, two-way "always give it your all" style of play wears teams down by the end of the season.

I express no opinion on the matter, but I am curious to see a player like Tarasenko (who has displayed an improved all-around game thus far) fares as the season progresses.

Cant be worse than Hitch’s system of forecheck, backchech, butt check, cock check, grind-grind-grind

 

[Twisted Blue]

Upshall and Brodziak are playing at a 37 and 31 pt pace lol, I'd say that's contributing plenty for a 4th line.

Don't get me wrong, I'm happy the 4th line is producing but neither will keep the pace they are currently on. Brodziak has not touched 30+ points since 2011-2012 and Upshall has not touched 30+ points since 2013-2014.

 

[Twisted Blue]

Contribute doesnt mean carry. You cant count on the bottom 6 to score night in/night out. The 3rd line is getting better each game. They are getting their looks. If they look dangerous then the other team can't ignore them completely.

Sure, but so far third line has 1 goal and 3 assists between Paajarvi and Sundqvist, plus whatever Jaskin brought to the table. That's not going to command respect from anyone.

 

[JoshFromMO]

Don't get me wrong, I'm happy the 4th line is producing but neither will keep the pace they are currently on. Brodziak has not touched 30+ points since 2011-2012 and Upshall has not touched 30+ points since 2013-2014.

They probably won't be able to keep it up, but they are definitely scoring important goals right now so it hard to ask much more of them.

 

[Twisted Blue]

I get that you are teasing, but on a serious note...do we know yet that he isn't?

There's major stylistic differences for sure, but in the grand scheme of things he hasn't accomplished anything here yet that Hitchcock hasn't already accomplished before him. There's ample reason for hope, which is something I readily admit that I didn't have a lot of before, but there's a big difference between having hope and counting chickens before they hatch. There are undeniably major questions about Yeo that still need to be answered. If any of them are answered negatively, people will be poking fun at the current level of optimism in much the same way that people are currently poking fun at the previous level of pessimism (which wasn't exactly unjustified at that point, either).

Some fans like riding the high and low swings. I prefer trying to avoid them (not always successfully), as it keeps me from burning out emotionally and is generally better for my long-term mental health.

I thought we were talking about coaching styles not accomplishments. Yeo implemented a more aggressive strategy that encourages an active defense in the offensive zone, a dramatic contrast to Hitch. We also see the third forward in the O-zone getting lower in the slot for scoring opportunities and more aggressive passes through the neutral zone when breaking out of our own end. I agree that Yeo has accomplished nothing more than Hitch, but no one will until we win the WCF and go to the Cup finals. Who knows, maybe this will be the year

 

[Evocable Manager]

Cant be worse than Hitch’s system of forecheck, backchech, butt check, cock check, grind-grind-grind

Well you must have some lofty expectations.

We were only the best team in the regular season over a six year time period. I understand playoffs are what counts and where the true winning comes through but in that time period 3 different teams won. Hitchcock was fantastic and his system did work. If we had a better constructed roster with all the necessary pieces and everything fell into place at the right time, we could've had more than 1 deep run.

 

[Mike Liut]

Well you must have some lofty expectations.

We were only the best team in the regular season over a six year time period. I understand playoffs are what counts and where the true winning comes through but in that time period 3 different teams won. Hitchcock was fantastic and his system did work. If we had a better constructed roster with all the necessary pieces and everything fell into place at the right time, we could've had more than 1 deep run.

Hitch’s system was playoff style hockey for 82 games. When the playoffs started, they didnt have another level to go to and other teams did. This is just my observation.

 

[Klank Loves You]

My co-worker, a lifelong Wild fan, believes that Yeo's high-energy, two-way "always give it your all" style of play wears teams down by the end of the season.

I express no opinion on the matter, but I am curious to see a player like Tarasenko (who has displayed an improved all-around game thus far) fares as the season progresses.

This core has been there before. They know that you need gas in the tank for the offseaseon. It's something to keep an eye on, but it's not high on my radar.

 

[Evocable Manager]

Hitch’s system was playoff style hockey for 82 games. When the playoffs started, they didnt have another level to go to and other teams did. This is just my observation.

Then please explain the LA Kings, who played an extremely similar system but saw success in the playoffs.

You can win playing any style, it's a matter of timing and proper construction of your pieces. The way you play doesn't matter and there's no such thing 'playoff style.' If you're referring to intensity, well then only playoffs become that intense and I completely disagree with that theory.

 

[Dbrownss]

My co-worker, a lifelong Wild fan, believes that Yeo's high-energy, two-way "always give it your all" style of play wears teams down by the end of the season.

I express no opinion on the matter, but I am curious to see a player like Tarasenko (who has displayed an improved all-around game thus far) fares as the season progresses.

I would ask him to explain any team that plays a fast paced game. For teams that crash and bang...you could make that argument, but not teams that just play a fast paced game. Chicago, Tampa, and Pittsburg play a wide open throttle brand of hockey, and there still execute in the post season.

The wild just weren't very talented. That's why they fail. Previous Blues were the same....not THAT talented. We're now seeing our big guns showing their true potential.

 

[EastonBlues22]

I thought we were talking about coaching styles not accomplishments. Yeo implemented a more aggressive strategy that encourages an active defense in the offensive zone, a dramatic contrast to Hitch. We also see the third forward in the O-zone getting lower in the slot for scoring opportunities and more aggressive passes through the neutral zone when breaking out of our own end. I agree that Yeo has accomplished nothing more than Hitch, but no one will until we win the WCF and go to the Cup finals. Who knows, maybe this will be the year

Well, people are talking about both, but most people (especially casual fans) are probably more excited by the W/L results than anything Xs-and-Os related. The "best team in the league since he took over" thing has been mentioned more than once. That fosters excitement, but it also fosters expectations, no?

Whatever the cause for excitement, at some point you need to put things into perspective or expectations start getting out of control. The team is currently sporting a .744 point percentage since Yeo took over. Is that sustainable? It hasn't been done since the lockout, so the answer is a pretty easy no. Common sense says Schwartz will not finish with 107 points, and the team will not have five 70+ point players.

The team is riding high, and I'm enjoying that ride, but I can also understand that this high will inevitably level off. It seems rather premature to me to act like Yeo has answered all the questions about his hire, when so many of those questions actually have yet to be answered.

I don't want to sound like a debbie-downer. As I said before, I have a lot more hope now than I previously did, and what's he's done with the team on the ice is a huge chunk of that. That's not irrelevant at all, but the reality of the situation is that his hiring will ultimately be judged by a very different standard than that, and almost certainly not by what his coaching record was in his first half-season's worth of games with the Blues, either.

 

[Twisted Blue]

Well, people are talking about both, but most people (especially casual fans) are probably more excited by the W/L results than anything Xs-and-Os related. The "best team in the league since he took over" thing has been mentioned more than once. That fosters excitement, but it also fosters expectations, no?

Whatever the cause for excitement, at some point you need to put things into perspective or expectations start getting out of control. The team is currently sporting a .744 point percentage since Yeo took over. Is that sustainable? It hasn't been done since the lockout, so the answer is a pretty easy no. Common sense says Schwartz will not finish with 107 points, and the team will not have five 70+ point players.

The team is riding high, and I'm enjoying that ride, but I can also understand that this high will inevitably level off. It seems rather premature to me to act like Yeo has answered all the questions about his hire, when so many of those questions actually have yet to be answered.

I don't want to sound like a debbie-downer. As I said before, I have a lot more hope now than I previously did, and what's he's done with the team on the ice is a huge chunk of that. That's not irrelevant at all, but the reality of the situation is that his hiring will ultimately be judged by a very different standard than that, and almost certainly not by what his coaching record was in his first half-season's worth of games with the Blues, either.

Definitely agree that the teams current success rate is unsustainable and a correction will occur over the course of the season. However, I do believe that Yeo has implemented changes to the style of play that compliment the Blues current skill set and that the success of the team is more than just an artificial bump after firing Hitch. The team is simply achieving better results with less (due to injuries and attrition) under Yeo than Hitch. How much did Yeo impact the development of Allen, or Hitch to Allen's struggles? Did he have a say in Brodeur's role or encourage the mentoring? What about Schenn and his chemistry with Schwartz? Would Dunn get a chance under Hitch? Would our defense put up 31 pts (14g) under Hitch? How much is the success contributed to the assistants and staff Yeo put together?

 

[EastonBlues22]

Definitely agree that the teams current success rate is unsustainable and a correction will occur over the course of the season. However, I do believe that Yeo has implemented changes to the style of play that compliment the Blues current skill set and that the success of the team is more than just an artificial bump after firing Hitch. The team is simply achieving better results with less (due to injuries and attrition) under Yeo than Hitch. How much did Yeo impact the development of Allen, or Hitch to Allen's struggles? Did he have a say in Brodeur's role or encourage the mentoring? What about Schenn and his chemistry with Schwartz? Would Dunn get a chance under Hitch? Would our defense put up 31 pts (14g) under Hitch? How much is the success contributed to the assistants and staff Yeo put together?

Head coaches don't do a lot of one-on-one player development, especially during the season, so you're asking questions that have nebulous answers, at best. Has Yeo had some direct or indirect influence on Allen's play? Probably...most likely through how the defense is playing in front of him, as they are generally doing a better job of controlling the top of the circles, the middle of the ice, and better job of limiting dangerous opportunities off the rush. Did Yeo have some sort of personal trajectory altering watershed impact on Allen's career? Probably not.

I don't think Yeo had anything major to do with Schenn's current success here. The professional scouts did a good job of identifying him as a potential fit, and Armstrong brought him aboard in a good trade. The rest is Yeo essentially not screwing things up by breaking up something that's obviously working.

Young players have been given their opportunities to shine under Hitchcock, so who knows how he would have handled Dunn. The Blues organization drafted him with the intention of playing him, so it's not like he wasn't going to get a shot at some point.

It's easy to say that Yeo's changes have had a real impact on the defense's offensive contributions now since the changes are obvious and those contributions are well beyond reasonable expectations. Yeo absolutely deserves credit for encouraging the defense to be more aggressive (something that I've been campaigning for a long, long time), and I do think that will have a beneficial effect for the offense in general and the team as a whole. At the same time, I'm confident that Yeo's tactical shift didn't suddenly make Gunnarsson and Edmundson (who account for 43% of those 14 goals by defensemen) 20 goal scorers. Pietrangelo is on pace for 25 goals. That's not happening, either. Parayko is on pace for fewer points than he had last year. Is that a mark against Yeo's system if we're giving the system credit for helping to facilitate outliers in the other direction?

The bottom line for me is that if the data sets you are using for evidence are full of numbers that you know won't hold up over the long haul, then it's too early to start making big picture claims about how much something is affecting something else, or how well someone is doing because of some other thing. The time to start analyzing that stuff is after the pendulum has swung back and forth a few times so you have some idea of where the middle ground lies, and then you keep on revising that analysis as new data comes in until there's no more new data to be had.

That's not to say we shouldn't talk about what has happened so far and give credit (or criticism) where it is due, and to respond to those things as fans with hope, enthusiasm, pessimism, or whatever.

It just means, in my opinion, that it's too early to be drawing long-term conclusions about Yeo as a coach and the hiring in general, and to be sweeping aside all the previous concerns that were out there about his hiring and the general future of this organization. The early returns are far more promising than I think many could have hoped for, but for all that they're still just early returns.

 

[Borderbluesfan]

Good honest assessments. As a Blues fan, I like the way the team responded last year and the way they have come out this year, arguably without all of their best players. As Easton says, so far these are just early results! I also want to see how the team weathers some rough stretches and how they respond. I already know how the fans will respond, lol! However, I am impressed, Yeo seems engaged with the players. I think it is probable that Yeo has grown as a coach since his Minnesota job. He was a young coach and I hope he did a self-assessment and learned from his mistakes.

 

[Celtic Note]

Head coaches don't do a lot of one-on-one player development, especially during the season, so you're asking questions that have nebulous answers, at best. Has Yeo had some direct or indirect influence on Allen's play? Probably...most likely through how the defense is playing in front of him, as they are generally doing a better job of controlling the top of the circles, the middle of the ice, and better job of limiting dangerous opportunities off the rush. Did Yeo have some sort of personal trajectory altering watershed impact on Allen's career? Probably not.

I don't think Yeo had anything major to do with Schenn's current success here. The professional scouts did a good job of identifying him as a potential fit, and Armstrong brought him aboard in a good trade. The rest is Yeo essentially not screwing things up by breaking up something that's obviously working.

Young players have been given their opportunities to shine under Hitchcock, so who knows how he would have handled Dunn. The Blues organization drafted him with the intention of playing him, so it's not like he wasn't going to get a shot at some point.

It's easy to say that Yeo's changes have had a real impact on the defense's offensive contributions now since the changes are obvious and those contributions are well beyond reasonable expectations. Yeo absolutely deserves credit for encouraging the defense to be more aggressive (something that I've been campaigning for a long, long time), and I do think that will have a beneficial effect for the offense in general and the team as a whole. At the same time, I'm confident that Yeo's tactical shift didn't suddenly make Gunnarsson and Edmundson (who account for 43% of those 14 goals by defensemen) 20 goal scorers. Pietrangelo is on pace for 25 goals. That's not happening, either. Parayko is on pace for fewer points than he had last year. Is that a mark against Yeo's system if we're giving the system credit for helping to facilitate outliers in the other direction?

The bottom line for me is that if the data sets you are using for evidence are full of numbers that you know won't hold up over the long haul, then it's too early to start making big picture claims about how much something is affecting something else, or how well someone is doing because of some other thing. The time to start analyzing that stuff is after the pendulum has swung back and forth a few times so you have some idea of where the middle ground lies, and then you keep on revising that analysis as new data comes in until there's no more new data to be had.

That's not to say we shouldn't talk about what has happened so far and give credit (or criticism) where it is due, and to respond to those things as fans with hope, enthusiasm, pessimism, or whatever.

It just means, in my opinion, that it's too early to be drawing long-term conclusions about Yeo as a coach and the hiring in general, and to be sweeping aside all the previous concerns that were out there about his hiring and the general future of this organization. The early returns are far more promising than I think many could have hoped for, but for all that they're still just early returns.

This is what I meant about my question as to whether this is sustainable. But, I was too lazy to articulate it as well as you. Or maybe I never could have. That is also a possibility.

 

[Borderbluesfan]

In Yeo’s time as coach last season and so far this year, I’ve seen him spend more time advising players on the bench, than I ever remember Hitch actually talking one on one with players

 

[kimzey59]

Don't get me wrong, I'm happy the 4th line is producing but neither will keep the pace they are currently on. Brodziak has not touched 30+ points since 2011-2012 and Upshall has not touched 30+ points since 2013-2014.

So what you're saying is that both have proven to have the talent to top the 30 point mark.

 

[Twisted Blue]

So what you're saying is that both have proven to have the talent to top the 30 point mark.

Yes, both have achieve 30+ points in a season over their careers. Both players achieved that level a long time ago, with other organizations, not on the 4th line, and not in their twilight of their careers.

 

[Twisted Blue]

Head coaches don't do a lot of one-on-one player development, especially during the season, so you're asking questions that have nebulous answers, at best. Has Yeo had some direct or indirect influence on Allen's play? Probably...most likely through how the defense is playing in front of him, as they are generally doing a better job of controlling the top of the circles, the middle of the ice, and better job of limiting dangerous opportunities off the rush. Did Yeo have some sort of personal trajectory altering watershed impact on Allen's career? Probably not.

I don't think Yeo had anything major to do with Schenn's current success here. The professional scouts did a good job of identifying him as a potential fit, and Armstrong brought him aboard in a good trade. The rest is Yeo essentially not screwing things up by breaking up something that's obviously working.

Young players have been given their opportunities to shine under Hitchcock, so who knows how he would have handled Dunn. The Blues organization drafted him with the intention of playing him, so it's not like he wasn't going to get a shot at some point.

It's easy to say that Yeo's changes have had a real impact on the defense's offensive contributions now since the changes are obvious and those contributions are well beyond reasonable expectations. Yeo absolutely deserves credit for encouraging the defense to be more aggressive (something that I've been campaigning for a long, long time), and I do think that will have a beneficial effect for the offense in general and the team as a whole. At the same time, I'm confident that Yeo's tactical shift didn't suddenly make Gunnarsson and Edmundson (who account for 43% of those 14 goals by defensemen) 20 goal scorers. Pietrangelo is on pace for 25 goals. That's not happening, either. Parayko is on pace for fewer points than he had last year. Is that a mark against Yeo's system if we're giving the system credit for helping to facilitate outliers in the other direction?

The bottom line for me is that if the data sets you are using for evidence are full of numbers that you know won't hold up over the long haul, then it's too early to start making big picture claims about how much something is affecting something else, or how well someone is doing because of some other thing. The time to start analyzing that stuff is after the pendulum has swung back and forth a few times so you have some idea of where the middle ground lies, and then you keep on revising that analysis as new data comes in until there's no more new data to be had.

That's not to say we shouldn't talk about what has happened so far and give credit (or criticism) where it is due, and to respond to those things as fans with hope, enthusiasm, pessimism, or whatever.

It just means, in my opinion, that it's too early to be drawing long-term conclusions about Yeo as a coach and the hiring in general, and to be sweeping aside all the previous concerns that were out there about his hiring and the general future of this organization. The early returns are far more promising than I think many could have hoped for, but for all that they're still just early returns.

I think we are on the same page about the Blues short term success occurring at a unsustainable rate. I still am not sure you give Yeo enough credit, but it is very hard to quantify a coaches impact on a teams success or failure. In your opinion, what changes have you seen implemented under Coach Yeo that benefit, or are a detriment, to the team?

I also could not help but chuckle when you mentioned Yeo leaving Schenn and Schwartz together, an anomaly under Hitch's regime