Proposal: Mike Richards

[pengwins1587]

No ****. Sutter had one of the best players in the world on his wing for at least 1/4th the season and he couldn't do **** but look like a limp dick out there.

Pretty sure we're saying the same thing here haha. Sutter is average at best and Richards has potential to excel here I believe.

 

[Jules Winnfield]

Weren't there rumors that Mike Richards and Crosby can't stand each other?

They are both major competitors and were captains of the teams that hated each other. I'm sure if they played together again like they did for Team Canada it'd be all gravy like this again:

 

[Penguinzilla*]

Care to elaborate? Richards at 3.9 is a steal if you ask me. Guys only 29 and put up 41 points last year playing primarily 4th line. Sutter is worse and will want more on his next contract. Bortuzzo is expendable and weal is a ppg guy in the ahl. Watched him play junior to and the kid has skill, just small.

Richards is 29? Holy cow. He plays like he's 40

 

[drpepper]

Pretty sure we're saying the same thing here haha. Sutter is average at best and Richards has potential to excel here I believe.

If Richards needs more powperplay time, better linemates, more offensive opportunities, more TOI than what he's getting in LA to be successful than Pittsburgh is a terrible match for him.

He's not going to displace any of Crosby, Malkin, Perron, Hornqvist or Letang on the PP #1. He's not going to get better wingers. He's not going to get more offensive opportunities.

 

[Ugene Magic]

If Richards needs more powperplay time, better linemates, more offensive opportunities, more TOI than what he's getting in LA to be successful than Pittsburgh is a terrible match for him.

He's not going to displace any of Crosby, Malkin, Perron, Hornqvist or Letang on the PP #1. He's not going to get better wingers. He's not going to get more offensive opportunities.

Now your getting it.

Unless Richards can play wing he's no target of ours.

 

[drpepper]

They are both major competitors and were captains of the teams that hated each other. I'm sure if they played together again like they did for Team Canada it'd be all gravy like this again:

I didn't think they got along all that well on Team Canada for a short tournament. Hence the rumors from the 2010 Olympics.

Now put them in the same locker room for the next 5 years.

 

[Jules Winnfield]

If Richards needs more powperplay time, better linemates, more offensive opportunities, more TOI than what he's getting in LA to be successful than Pittsburgh is a terrible match for him.

He's not going to displace any of Crosby, Malkin, Perron, Hornqvist or Letang on the PP #1. He's not going to get better wingers. He's not going to get more offensive opportunities.

What are you talking about? Are you just throwing this out there or not comparing him to upgrading over Sutter?

Richards plays 5 minutes LESS a game than Sutter and has 1 less point. Sutter gets more PP time per game than Richards also and does dick with it.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I didn't think they got along all that well on Team Canada for a short tournament. Hence the rumors from the 2010 Olympics.

Now put them in the same locker room for the next 5 years.

What rumors?

Shouldn't Crosby hate Downie for that leg incident? Oh right, these aren't children.

 

[66-30-33]

Pass on Richards. Seems he's finished now somehow at age 29.

 

[Country Mac]

If we could do Spaling and Scuderi for Richards and and good prospect Kempe/Zykov that would let us move Sutter in a package for Geno's big time winger and roll

Perron-Crosby-Hörnqvist
XXX-Geno-Bennett
Kunitz-Richards-Downie
Farnham-Goc-Comeau

Imagine if that winger were JVR or Kane

 

[Woodrow]

What are you talking about? Are you just throwing this out there or not comparing him to upgrading over Sutter?

Richards plays 5 minutes LESS a game than Sutter and has 1 less point.

Even if he is exactly as good as Sutter(which he is not and I'm no fan of Sutter) he has a much much worse contract even with salary retained. Richards is signed for another 5 years!!!

LA is trying to give Richards away for free!!

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Pass on Richards. Seems he's finished now somehow at age 29.

Yeah, 15pts in 47 games on a team where their best player is on pace for under 70pts on a team that is notoriously low scoring under the Sutter regime is done.

 

[Jules Winnfield]

Even if he is exactly as good as Sutter(which he is not and I'm no fan of Sutter) he has a much much worse contract even with salary retained. Richards is signed for another 5 years!!!

LA is trying to give Richards away for free!!

Wait till Sutter's next contract. He has 1 year left. If he makes it to free agency he's going to get bank and he ****ing sucks.

Also, guess you didn't read where I had LA retaining $2m in salary. $3.75m for him per is a steal.

 

[drpepper]

What are you talking about? Are you just throwing this out there or not comparing him to upgrading over Sutter?

Richards plays 5 minutes LESS a game than Sutter and has 1 less point.

An argument was made that the situation in LA (and Richards mental state) is more responsible for Richards's decline than actual physical decline. Such that, if Richards was in a better situation (system, teammates, playing time, powerplay time, etc) then his production would increase.

I am not trying to argue that Sutter is a better player than Richards although I actually think that is probably true if this season is a true reflection of Richards's play. I am arguing that Pittsburgh is not a good fit for Richards to increase his production.

Sutter only plays 2.1 min more per game at ES. Sutter plays 2 min more per game on the PK and gets 0.4 min more on the PP. Richards won't see a drastic increase in ESTOI, and will get more time on PK, and about the same time on the powerplay.

Sutter and Richards offensive production is similar at ES (1.26 vs 1.27 pt/60) but Sutter is a much better defensive player over the past two years.

In terms of teammates this year, Sutter has slightly better teammates by TOI but Richards has far superior teammates by Corsi & Fenwick suggesting that Richards won't have better teammates in Pittsburgh as compared to LA.

In terms of competition this year, Sutter and Richards see similar quality of competition. Sutter gets more defensive starts and fewer offensive zone starts. Richards will not be more sheltered or get more offensive opportunities here.

I actually would argue that Richards physical abilities (physicality, hands, skating) have declined rapidly over the past two years and that in addition he has mentally not been the same player making stupid decisions on offense and defense. That his declining play is not situational but is related to his age, injury history and style of play. That his declining play will only continue to get worse over the next 5 years of his contract. In which case, Richards is a loss even at $3.75 million per for the next 5 years independent of any comparison with Sutter.

 

[brewski420]

This just does not seem like a smart move, even though I would probably go for bringing him on. I can just envision the ****storm of get rid of that **** on this site nonstop. For that possibility alone I am hesitant.

 

[Jules Winnfield]

Brandon Sutter since November 22nd (to put this in perspective how bad he’s been the past 2 months.

26 games played
3 goals
2 assists
5 points
-10 + -

That's less than a 16 point pace he's been at for over 1/4th the season, including time with Geno playing 18m+ a game and being a negative player on the ice. We're not even discussing any of his CORSI/Fenwick stats here yet. He's the worst on the team after Sill.

 

[Woodrow]

Wait till Sutter's next contract. He has 1 year left. If he makes it to free agency he's going to get bank and he ****ing sucks.

Also, guess you didn't read where I had LA retaining $2m in salary. $3.75m for him per is a steal.

I'm all for trading Brandon Sutter but I'm not for moving him and taking back Mike Richards. Even at 3.75, with 5 years left Mike Richards contract sucks bad.

 

[drpepper]

Brandon Sutter since November 22nd (to put this in perspective how bad he’s been the past 2 months.

26 games played
3 goals
2 assists
5 points
-10 + -

That's less than a 16 point pace he's been at for over 1/4th the season, including time with Geno playing 18m+ a game and being a negative player on the ice. We're not even discussing any of his CORSI/Fenwick stats here yet. He's the worst on the team after Sill.

Eliminating October and most of November means that your Sutter stats are from when the Pens have been riddled with injury and playing like **** at every position from goalie to defensemen to forwards. Talk about bias; that is a horrible way to compare players.

Also Sutter's stats don't make Mike Richards a good choice for the next 5 ****ing years.

I think Richards is done as a player. He's not going to play better. He's not going to produce better. He's not going to get back his physicality. What he's been doing in LA for the last two years is it; he's only going to continue to decline.

 

[Jules Winnfield]

Eliminating October and most of November means that your Sutter stats are from when the Pens have been riddled with injury and playing like **** at every position from goalie to defensemen to forwards. Talk about bias; that is a horrible way to compare players.

Also Sutter's stats don't make Mike Richards a good choice for the next 5 ****ing years.

I think Richards is done as a player. He's not going to play better. He's not going to produce better. What he's been doing in LA for the last two years is it; he's only going to continue to decline.

Bias my ass. The stats are what they are. If anything, with all the injuries, he's had more opportunity than ever to prove himself as a 2C and help this team. It's not like he's even had bad luck or anything. He's a ghost most nights.

You can keep being a Sutter apologist but my eyes and the stats don't like. He's been garbage the last 2 months, especially when his team has needed him to step up.

 

[penguins2946*]

Eliminating October and most of November means that your Sutter stats are from when the Pens have been riddled with injury and playing like **** at every position from goalie to defensemen to forwards. Talk about bias; that is a horrible way to compare players.

Also Sutter's stats don't make Mike Richards a good choice for the next 5 ****ing years.

I think Richards is done as a player. He's not going to play better. He's not going to produce better. He's not going to get back his physicality. What he's been doing in LA for the last two years is it; he's only going to continue to decline.

He wasn't talking about Richards in that post, he was just saying how bad Sutter actually is. And he is bad. He's a horrible possession player, he goes long stretches without scoring, he is horrible along the boards,he is a mediocre at best playmaker, he's Charmin soft and he needs a playmaking winger to not be completely ineffective offensively. If his last name wasn't Sutter and he wasn't the big name in the Staal trade, he would have been run out of town by Pens fans by this point.

 

[drpepper]

Bias my ass. The stats are what they are. If anything, with all the injuries, he's had more opportunity than ever to prove himself as a 2C and help this team. It's not like he's even had bad luck or anything. He's a ghost most nights.

You can keep being a Sutter apologist but my eyes and the stats don't like. He's been garbage the last 2 months, especially when his team has needed him to step up.

I am not a Sutter apologist. Sutter is not a 2C; why would playing him beyond his capabilities with a team playing like crap help him? Sutter is a decent 3C. But Sutter's play doesn't even matter. This is not a sum zero game where the Penguins have either Sutter OR Richards.

How about you focus on Richards and his play? He has been garbage for the past two years. He's only getting worse.

 

[Jules Winnfield]

How about you focus on Richards and his play? He has been garbage for the past two years. He's only getting worse.

I'm focusing on Sutter's play because he's on our team and underperforming. Richards is a speculative thought. I think a lot of people here are only looking at Richard's stats without realizing how offensively stifling Daryl Sutter's system is. Regardless, that's another argument. My main point is Brandon Sutter has been awful.

If we're going to do something in the playoffs we need an upgrade on Sutter. He hasn't done jack with production but his CORSI/Fenwick stats are a joke. We can't win with an 18 minute a game player, playing important minutes and having the 2nd worst possession stats on the team.

 

[MetalheadPenguinsFan]

Eeeew no.

 

[drpepper]

He wasn't talking about Richards in that post, he was just saying how bad Sutter actually is. And he is bad. He's a horrible possession player, he goes long stretches without scoring, he is horrible along the boards,he is a mediocre at best playmaker, he's Charmin soft and he needs a playmaking winger to not be completely ineffective offensively. If his last name wasn't Sutter and he wasn't the big name in the Staal trade, he would have been run out of town by Pens fans by this point.

How about you actually read the whole conversation?

Richards isn't physical, can't skate, has bad hands, is making terrible decisions offensively and defensively, and is putting in sub-par effort. LAK aren't waiving him solely because of his contract. They are waiving him because he can't play well and is being outplayed by every other center on the team. If Richards was playing well, he wouldn't be on waivers.

I would argue that this decline in play is due to age, previous injury, and play style. That he can't play better and that he will only continue to decline.

Even if this decline is more situational (related to systems, teammates, TOI, usage, mental), I would argue that Pittsburgh is a terrible fit for Richards. The system might work, but he won't get better line mates, TOI, or usage.

Sutter's play has nothing to do with how poorly Richards is playing.

 

[drpepper]

I'm focusing on Sutter's play because he's on our team and underperforming. Richards is a speculative thought. I think a lot of people here are only looking at Richard's stats without realizing how offensively stifling Daryl Sutter's system is. Regardless, that's another argument. My main point is Brandon Sutter has been awful.

If we're going to do something in the playoffs we need an upgrade on Sutter. He hasn't done jack with production but his CORSI/Fenwick stats are a joke. We can't win with an 18 minute a game player, playing important minutes and having the 2nd worst possession stats on the team.

My point is that Richards is not an upgrade on Sutter.