Salary Cap: Might not Rise as much as First Projected

[probertrules24]

Because Sheahan won't have a position to play if Datsyuk, Legwand, Weiss, and Helm are centering all four lines, and Sheahan loses waiver exemption after this season.

Franzen started as a center, Abdelkader started as a center. Heck even Zetterberg was moved to wing. It's not unheard of to move a center to wing. It also doesn't have to be Sheahan. We've been talking all year about trying Weiss on the wing to get him going.

I'm not saying one of those two guys might not be let go but we have no idea. There are options. I would rather lose Ferraro and Callahan and keep Legwand and Weiss and move one of our centers to wing.

My previous line combo's:

Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / Pavel Datsyuk ($7.500m) / Daniel Alfredsson ($5.500m)
Johan Franzen ($3.955m) / David Legwand ($4.500m) / Gustav Nyquist ($0.950m)
Tomas Tatar ($1.750m) / Riley Sheahan ($1.500m) / Stephen Weiss ($4.900m)
Justin Abdelkader ($1.800m) / Darren Helm ($2.125m) / Tomas Jurco ($0.709m)
Joakim Andersson ($0.733m) / Drew Miller ($1.350m) /

All I'm saying is it can be done and to make a definite claim that one has to be gone isn't 100% true.

 

[JmanWingsFan]

Franzen started as a center, Abdelkader started as a center. Heck even Zetterberg was moved to wing. It's not unheard of to move a center to wing. It also doesn't have to be Sheahan. We've been talking all year about trying Weiss on the wing to get him going.

I'm not saying one of those two guys might not be let go but we have no idea. There are options. I would rather lose Ferraro and Callahan and keep Legwand and Weiss and move one of our centers to wing.

My previous line combo's:

Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / Pavel Datsyuk ($7.500m) / Daniel Alfredsson ($5.500m)
Johan Franzen ($3.955m) / David Legwand ($4.500m) / Gustav Nyquist ($0.950m)
Tomas Tatar ($1.750m) / Riley Sheahan ($1.500m) / Stephen Weiss ($4.900m)
Justin Abdelkader ($1.800m) / Darren Helm ($2.125m) / Tomas Jurco ($0.709m)
Joakim Andersson ($0.733m) / Drew Miller ($1.350m) /

All I'm saying is it can be done and to make a definite claim that one has to be gone isn't 100% true.

If Weiss is going to be a winger in the bottom six, there's no point in carrying him. You might as well cut bait and let a kid play that position cheaper.

 

[Unfriendly Ghost]

The biggest issue is fitting our embarrassment of riches at forward on the roster in some way, shape, or form. The Org will have to pick between Legwand and Weiss, they aren't keeping both. That's about it. This will affect some of the teams up against it.

or Helm...

 

[obey86]

Because Sheahan won't have a position to play if Datsyuk, Legwand, Weiss, and Helm are centering all four lines, and Sheahan loses waiver exemption after this season.

Move Weiss to wing...problem solved and we have great center depth in case of injuries (Zetterberg, Weiss, and even Franzen could move to center if needed).

 

[JmanWingsFan]

Move Weiss to wing...problem solved and we have great center depth in case of injuries (Zetterberg, Weiss, and even Franzen could move to center if needed).

If Weiss is going to be a winger in the bottom six, there's no point in carrying him. You might as well cut bait and let a kid play that position cheaper.

There's a point in economics where the returns on your investment begin to diminish and you are no longer efficiently spending money. Moving Weiss to the wing would be one of those things.

 

[last_sd]

FORWARDS
Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / Pavel Datsyuk ($7.500m) / Daniel Alfredsson ($5.500m)
Gustav Nyquist ($0.950m) / David Legwand ($5.000m) / Johan Franzen ($3.955m)
Riley Sheahan ($1.800m) / Stephen Weiss ($4.900m) / Tomas Tatar ($3.000m)
Justin Abdelkader ($1.800m) / Darren Helm ($2.125m) / Drew Miller ($1.350m)
Joakim Andersson ($0.733m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Niklas Kronwall ($4.750m) / Jonathan Ericsson ($4.250m)
Jakub Kindl ($2.400m) / Brendan Smith ($1.263m)
Brian Lashoff ($0.725m) / Danny DeKeyser ($3.000m)
GOALTENDERS
Jimmy Howard ($5.292m)
Petr Mrazek ($0.595m)
BUYOUTS
Carlo Colaiacovo ($0.000m)
Jordin Tootoo ($0.000m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(estimations for 2014-15)
SALARY CAP: $71,100,000; CAP PAYROLL: $66,969,545; BONUSES: $195,000
CAP SPACE (21-man roster): $4,130,455

This is what I have so far.
I gave a bit more for each UFA/RFA just to make sure.

1. Tootoo compliance buyout
2. Legwand for 5M (could be lower)
3. Alfredsson for 5M (We could do the same setup where we can push the bonus to next year)
4. Sheahan for 1.8M (could be a lot lower but basically what we gave Abs)
5. Tatar for 3M (same here could be a lot lower but being safe)
6. DeKeyser for 3M
7. Jurco sent down.
8. Not sure about Ferror, Callahan
9. Mrazek will back up Howard
10. Have 4M for 14th forward and a D. But if cap is only at 68M than not much left.
But note that I gave a lot of cushion to everyone.

 

[InjuredChoker]

There's a point in economics where the returns on your investment begin to diminish and you are no longer efficiently spending money. Moving Weiss to the wing would be one of those things.

buyout caphit is more than 2 mil next year. so the difference there is less than 3 mil. and even less than that as the player who replaces him cost some money too.

and as he was just signed last year, i think he's given one more season. i'd only buy him out next offseason if it looks like they could use that cap space better. like stastny would somehow make it to FA or markov or boyle etc. or some players that will be bought out.

this way they could roll 3 scoring lines, even with some injuries. that is ofc, assuming that weiss returns to even somewhat close to form. i'd rather be able to roll 3 scoring lines and minutes would be higher than for traditional 3rd line.

sheahan could play with zett and dats. i think he's the best option to play with them, considering what kind of guy babcock seems to want there.

 

[JmanWingsFan]

buyout caphit is more than 2 mil next year. so the difference there is less than 3 mil. and even less than that as the player who replaces him cost some money too.

and as he was just signed last year, i think he's given one more season. i'd only buy him out next offseason if it looks like they could use that cap space better. like stastny would somehow make it to FA or markov or boyle etc. or some players that will be bought out.

this way they could roll 3 scoring lines, even with some injuries. that is ofc, assuming that weiss returns to even somewhat close to form. i'd rather be able to roll 3 scoring lines and minutes would be higher than for traditional 3rd line.

sheahan could play with zett and dats. i think he's the best option to play with them, considering what kind of guy babcock seems to want there.

Weiss is nearly making $5 million. How is that efficient use of money making him play on the wing or centre for a bottom six line that won't see as much playing time as the top six? You don't pay $5 million if he's not playing an important roll on the team.

 

[ThankYouBasedGod]

Weiss is nearly making $5 million. How is that efficient use of money making him play on the wing or centre for a bottom six line that won't see as much playing time as the top six? You don't pay $5 million if he's not playing an important roll on the team.

And how is paying $2 million against the Cap too get him off the roster an efficient use of money? Buying him out at this point would be beyond stupid.

 

[InjuredChoker]

Weiss is nearly making $5 million. How is that efficient use of money making him play on the wing or centre for a bottom six line that won't see as much playing time as the top six? You don't pay $5 million if he's not playing an important roll on the team.

And how is paying $2 million against the Cap too get him off the roster an efficient use of money? Buying him out at this point would be beyond stupid.

that and he can play important role even if he's not in 'top six'. have basically two second lines that play as much. and just because he wouldn't play in top 6 wouldn't mean that he's role wouldn't be important. that's often where the best teams destroy other teams, they have better depth.

lots of teams have/had players in bottom 6 that get paid 5 mil or close to it. bickell is getting less total toi than 4th liner on hawks. eriksson has been on third line lately on bruins. roy on blues and stewart while he still was there. leafs with clarkson...

buyout cost also gets cheaper next season. and it doesn't matter how much he's paid if they can't use the money on better player. which might not be available.

or just make him second liner then and legwand on the third if that matters so much.

and i think holland is not willing to admit the mistake this soon. not to mention how bad it would look if weiss bounces back next year.

it would be more of a problem if he's paid 7 mil but 5 mil isn't that far off from third lines money. maybe by around 2 mi. what his buyout would cost anyway.

 

[Winger98]

You don't get a medal for having the most efficient lineup.While you have a finite resource in salary, blowing $5m on a third line center is fine if you can off-set it with lower salaries elsewhere - which we can with guys like Tatar, Nyquist, Jurco, Pulkkinen, Mantha, XO, Marchenko, and Mrazek moving up through the system and taking spots on the team. We could swing a Legwand contract pretty easily. The bigger question is if we're okay with our blueline, or if we'll even be able to find an upgrade if we look.

 

[Vladdy84]

The Wings should really go after a punishing and nasty D-man that can move bodies out of in front of the net. That was sorely missed last night IMO. Matt Greene.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

We might just give one to Tatar (real doubtful here given Nyquist's recent deal) or DeKeyser ala Filppula or Kronwall, but I seriously doubt it. Some of these RFA numbers seem high, much like the ones we were putting out for months in terms of our guys last year.

We also should have enough cash around we aren't even close to a target for teams pursuing RFA deals which there never really are many anyway.

 

[Winger98]

The Wings should really go after a punishing and nasty D-man that can move bodies out of in front of the net. That was sorely missed last night IMO. Matt Greene.

Except Greene also isn't very good. If we tried to sign anyone from LA, I'd still go for Willie Mitchell on a short deal. I'm not big on any of the UFA after Boyle and Markov, though. If/When we can't land one of them, I'd probably just open up that last blueline spot to competition in camp and see who takes it.

Kronwall-Ericsson
Smith-Dekeyser
Kindl/Lashoff-Marchenko
Kindl/Lashoff

If we were to take a flier on someone for a year, I'd see if Pitkanen is healthy. Would probably be affordable, and have to settle for a one year deal to prove he's healthy and productive. If he comes back and returns to the form he's capable of, big win for us. If not, it's just a one year investment that would be unlikely to kill us cap wise.

 

[InjuredChoker]

^^

pitkänen's career is most likely done.

i wouldn't mind strålman or fayne in addition those you mentioned. maybe zidlicky too.

 

[JmanWingsFan]

Except Greene also isn't very good.

This is laughably false based on absolutely nothing. Greene's an exceptional defenseman. He just doesn't have sexy box-score stats.

 

[Winger98]

^^

pitkänen's career is most likely done.

i wouldn't mind strålman or fayne in addition those you mentioned. maybe zidlicky too.

I didn't think his heel injury was that serious. Sucks for the big guy.

This is laughably false based on absolutely nothing. Greene's an exceptional defenseman. He just doesn't have sexy box-score stats.

Yeah, a god send for LA holding down those critical 15 minutes a night. Huge fan of Lashoff, too, eh?

 

[JmanWingsFan]

Yeah, a god send for LA holding down those critical 15 minutes a night. Huge fan of Lashoff, too, eh?

Ranks in the 87th percentile in shutdown index.

35th in FF20 in zone adjusted 5on5 situations, 7th in FA20, 4th in FF% among all defensemen who have played at least 100 minutes of TOI.

In close game situations, Greene ranks 14th in FF20, 10th in FA20, and 3rd in FF%. Aside from last season, Greene's teem numbers have all been better on the ice relative to when he is not on the ice.

He's a friggin' good defenseman.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

why would we resign legwand, keep weiss, deliberately make no attempts to improve our defence, and bury jurco in grand rapids

we will never ever ever compete with the defence as it stands today, we cant, we wont

success in the nhl begins and ends on the blueline(and in nets of course)

untill such time that we address this issue properly everything else is counterproductive and a waste

if we want to bring back legwand thats great but only after we ship weiss out in a package for a good young top 3 dman

 

[InjuredChoker]

This is laughably false based on absolutely nothing. Greene's an exceptional defenseman. He just doesn't have sexy box-score stats.

adv. stats are solid. but it's not true that it's based on absolutely nothing. kings fans and management don't seem to think he's very good.

he's lost a lot of mobility from what i've gathered.

 

[Winger98]

Ranks in the 87th percentile in shutdown index.

35th in FF20 in zone adjusted 5on5 situations, 7th in FA20, 4th in FF% among all defensemen who have played at least 100 minutes of TOI.

In close game situations, Greene ranks 14th in FF20, 10th in FA20, and 3rd in FF%. Aside from last season, Greene's teem numbers have all been better on the ice relative to when he is not on the ice.

He's a friggin' good defenseman.

for all of 15 minutes a night. Doughty better watch himself, he might start losing minutes.

 

[JmanWingsFan]

adv. stats are solid. but it's not true that it's based on absolutely nothing. kings fans and management don't seem to think he's very good.

he's lost a lot of mobility from what i've gathered.

Yeah? Habs management has clashed with P.K. Subban before. They also employ Douglas Murray and traded Raphael Diaz. Edmonton management has issues with Nail Yakupov. Red Wings management loved Dan Cleary enough to keep him on the roster. They also seem to be prone to putting Brendan Smith in the doghouse. The Toronto Maple Leafs gave a lot of money to Tyler Freaking Bozak and sent Mikhail Grabovski packing. The Kings have been paying Willie Mitchell a whole lot of money to be a whole lot of very blegh.

Yeah, management can be such a reliable way to judge a players abilities some times.

for all of 15 minutes a night. Doughty better watch himself, he might start losing minutes.

Closer to 16 minutes, but if that's seriously you're only argument, you really have no argument.

 

[InjuredChoker]

Yeah? Habs management has clashed with P.K. Subban before. They also employ Douglas Murray and traded Raphael Diaz. Edmonton management has issues with Nail Yakupov. Red Wings management loved Dan Cleary enough to keep him on the roster. They also seem to be prone to putting Brendan Smith in the doghouse. The Toronto Maple Leafs gave a lot of money to Tyler Freaking Bozak and sent Mikhail Grabovski packing. The Kings have been paying Willie Mitchell a whole lot of money to be a whole lot of very blegh.

Yeah, management can be such a reliable way to judge a players abilities some times.

smith often deserves to be in the doghouse. though i don't agree with how he's used.

bozak seems to be doing pretty well. 37 points in 40 games. #1C on one of the best teams in the east. man i hoped they'd realized that they should fall becayse their corsi sucks

go ask kings fans whether they feel more comfortable with mitchell or greene on the ice. mitchell played top pairing when they won the cup too, iirc.

management's do make mistakes but i think kings do pretty good job.

and with those moves, i think the fanbase generally disagrees with those moves. doesn't seem to be case with greene. team and fanbase think he's not very good. so all there is are stats; same stats that tells us that leafs should be one of the worst teams in the league; instead they are at the top of the east.

Closer to 16 minutes, but if that's seriously you're only argument, you really have no argument.

i guess his point was more of that he's been third pairing dman all along and thus doesn't really classify as very good.

 

[Winger98]

Closer to 16 minutes, but if that's seriously you're only argument, you really have no argument.

And you can keep pumping Matt Greene's tires, maybe find another guy who has played all of half the season getting minimal minutes and tell us how fantastic he is.

 

[Winger98]

i guess his point was more of that he's been third pairing dman all along and thus doesn't really classify as very good.

A third pairing D for the past five years getting mop up minutes so they don't run their real D into the ice over the course of the season.