Metro Seattle: NHL, NBA and Arena - Part II

[JawandaPuck]

"Seattle sports-arena talks well under way, documents show"

The Seattle Times, February 4, 2012:

Emails and documents released by the city show that there's a far more focused effort to bring an NBA team back to Seattle and build a new arena than previously known.

A Dec. 13 agenda for a meeting between the parties shows they were talking about details such as a "Review of Basic Deal Structure," "Financing Issues," including "City Debt Capacity," and "Security for Public Financing."

The documents, released Friday to The Seattle Times under a public-disclosure request, also provide the first glimpse of how the largely unknown hedge-fund manager, 44-year-old Seattle native Christopher Hansen, approached the city about his desire to buy an NBA team and build an arena south of Safeco Field.

In an initial email laying out his vision, Hansen told city officials an arena could be built with minimal impact on taxpayers.

"Thanks for spending the time today guys," Hansen wrote in a June 16 email to Julie McCoy, chief of staff to Seattle Mayor Mike McGinn, and Ethan Raup, the mayor's director of policy and operations.

"I really appreciate it and look forward to making this happen in Seattle," wrote Hansen, a multimillionaire who built a fortune in the private investment world. "I genuinely mean that and am confident that with a little effort and creativity we can find a solution that meets our needs and the City's /State's desire to get a team back to Seattle without a large public outlay."

Hansen offered to provide information on "recent municipal arena deals that have been put together and some of the direct and indirect contributions that the city can make that don't require incremental taxes or direct public funding."

Those issues were on the table at the key Dec. 13 meeting, which was attended by McCoy and Raup and set up by Carl Hirsh, a New Jersey arena consultant hired by the city in July.

It was held at the law offices of Foster Pepper, one of Seattle's prominent law firms. An attorney with the firm, Hugh Spitzer, had been hired by the city in September to provide advice on selling construction bonds.

...

Hansen has acquired property south of Safeco Field's parking garage, between South Massachusetts and South Holgate streets east of First Avenue South, records show. While sources have previously said at least one business owner has declined to sell, the issue of the city using its power of eminent domain to acquire the land is no longer a concern of Hansen's group, Seattle City Attorney Pete Holmes said during a recent interview with The Times editorial board. Holmes did not elaborate, but his comments suggest Hansen's representatives have reached some sort of agreements.

...

Although the documents don't mention how Seattle would obtain a team, they show the city has been following developments in Sacramento, which is under a March 1 deadline to come up with a viable proposal to build an arena for the Sacramento Kings. In September, Hirsh emailed a copy of an Associated Press story to Raup that outlined the Sacramento situation. If Sacramento fails, the Kings could be playing in Seattle next fall if the city and Hansen reach an agreement, according to a Seattle City Hall source who has been briefed on the matter.

In addition, National Hockey League Commissioner Gary Bettman has expressed a strong interest in placing a team in Seattle, leading to widespread speculation that the financially struggling Phoenix Coyotes could be moved here.​

Arena and Team Announcements could come in April

The Seattle Times, February 4, 2012:

Obviously much still needs to be worked out, but an announcement of an arena plan and the opportunity to bring the NBA and NHL to Seattle could come as early as April, and this is no April Fools' joke.​

​

NHL EVP Bill Daly talks up Seattle and plays down Quebec

LaPresse, January 29, 2012 (translated):

"Yes we can. Yes you can write that the Coyotes could move to Quebec City next year. But you must also add that other cities, as well as Quebec, could inherit the Coyotes...Seattle, like Quebec, [is a city where an] arena has yet to be built. Existing infrastructure - the Colosseum and the Key Arena, which served as home to the SuperSonics basketball club before being relocated to Oklahoma City - could serve as a temporary solution.

Our relationship with the people of Quebec are still very good and their application is not worse than it was. But I think the passion with which you follow the case and the interest for the return of the League in Quebec gave the impression that things were more advanced than they actually are."​

To make the arena profitable, it will require both the NBA and the NHL...

Le Soliel, January 30, 2012 (translated):

"Our efforts are serious. There are several private groups are competing to build an arena, and what motivates them at the base is an NHL franchise," said an influential person working with the group to give Seattle franchises for both the NBA and the NHL. In order not to undermine the efforts of investors, this insider of the Seattle sports scene prefers to remain anonymous.

But on the West Coast, the NHL is not a consolation prize for the NBA. "This is a very attractive market, there is a beautiful story of hockey here. We have many links to and rivalry with Vancouver. And we have an incredible number of billionaires in the region who are willing to support professional teams," says the businessman, who now devotes much of his energy to drive this. "The desire of the business community is to have two sports: basketball and hockey. The two go together."

"I am aware of the involvement of several investors. This is very serious," says Craig Kinzer, a well known property developer in the region and former president of the Seattle Chamber of Commerce. "For our investors, it is natural to aim for the NBA and the NHL... To be profitable here, it takes all three (NBA, NHL and arena)." Investors feel in recent months that all of these conditions could be met shortly, the businessman concludes.​

We have a motivated Seattle Mayor and a motivated Arena Developer...

The Seattle Times, January 13, 2012:

Seattle Mayor Mike McGinn signed a $19,500-per-month contract in July with sports-facilities consultant Carl Hirsh to advise the city on the development of a new sports facility that could draw an NBA team back to town.

Hirsh said many pieces remain to be put together to make a new arena work in Seattle. And he reiterated what the mayor and council members have said, that there is no firm proposal. But he said the developer is very motivated (Chris Hansen).

"Do I think it will be easy? No. Do I think we can put together a deal? Yes."

A deal also might help resurrect the political fortunes of McGinn, who in August lost the fight over the waterfront tunnel, which he stridently opposed, and suffered defeat of a proposed $60 vehicle-license fee, which he favored.

Christian Sinderman, a political consultant, said that while the number of people who want professional basketball returned to Seattle is high, the number who think it's essential is low.

Building a new arena and bringing a team back "is not a political game-changer," Sinderman said.

But he did acknowledge that if an arena got built under terms favorable to the city, "It could show that this mayor is capable of cutting a deal and delivering."​

Levin is not the one working with Hansen...

NBC King 5 News, January 4, 2012

Don Levin has watched the Puget Sound’s arena talk closely, and acknowledges now from his office in Chicago, it’s time for the people to step forward. “Time is of the essence,” says the owner of the American Hockey League’s Chicago Wolves. “A city needs to step up.”

“We know Don Levin. A good man and a good hockey owner,” wrote NHL Deputy Commissioner Bill Daly in an email Wednesday. But, he added, “We have had no recent discussions or communications with him.”

Daly also denied that the league had any further discussions with a Seattle ownership group. Multiple sources say there is one other investor or group, besides Levin, interested in bringing the NHL to the Seattle-area.

Levin said he can’t build the arena, but would like to partner with an NBA ownership group to fill a new facility. He denied recent suggestions that he’d been lobbying or working with an NBA group to make that happen.

He also said he hasn’t been contacted by a San Francisco-based hedge fund, Valiant Partners (Chris Hansen), about the fund's recent purchase of three acres south of Safeco Field. Valiant bought the land from a Seattle businessman for $21.6 million, almost $3 million more than the land's assessed value. The deal for the parcel closed on December 6th. The land is located just south of the Safeco Field parking garage. The seller has declined comment on the deal.​

Washington State Government will put up the arena "down payment" thru a sale of state bonds funded by a new event tax...

Kiro TV News, January 9, 2012

Washington state lawmakers are working on a new proposal to bring NBA basketball and the National Hockey League to Seattle, and are optimistic a new approach could work. When the Sonics were up for grabs for years ago, lawmakers refused to even vote on committing taxpayer money to help pay for a new arena.

Now, state Rep. Mike Hope (R, Lake Stevens) is trying a different approach. The idea is to charge NBA basketball and NHL hockey a license fee each time a team plays in the potential new arena. The money would be used as collateral to sell $62 million worth of bonds to help pay for a new arena in the Seattle area.

Rep. Hope said he believes the proposal will get bipartisan support because no taxpayer money is involved. "When you're looking at this, it's not going to affect a single person in Washington state," Hope said. "The people who are going to pay for this are the athletes themselves." He said the plan is similar to what other states like Tennessee and Ohio have done to help finance new arenas.

He's drafting legislation now and believes there will be a hearing in the next few weeks. The $62 million the plan is expected to raise is just a fraction of what a new arena would cost, but for supporters, every bit helps.
​

Hansen's NBA group is working with one of two Seattle NHL groups...

The Seattle Times, December 23, 2011

A wealthy San Francisco hedge-fund manager is the lead investor seeking to build a sports arena south of Safeco Field to lure an NBA basketball team back to Seattle, according to two sources briefed on the effort.

Christopher Hansen, 43, who has roots in Seattle and now heads Valiant Capital Management LLC, in San Francisco, is working with an investor group whose proposal has yet to be publicly unveiled.

Hansen, described by one source as a multimillionaire, could not be reached for comment Friday. He previously lived in Seattle's Leschi neighborhood, public records show.

Hansen is working with a Bellevue man who would like to bring an NHL professional hockey team to Seattle to play in the arena, according to the source, who did not know the name of the Eastside participant. Both men understand they need each other to make the proposal work, the source said.

Among those involved in the Sodo plan is Wally Walker, the former Seattle Sonics player and team executive, sources said. Walker was a minority owner of the Sonics, serving as the team's president and general manager from 1994 until the team was sold to Clay Bennett in 2006. Bennett moved the team to Oklahoma City after failing to secure a new arena in Seattle and reaching a financial settlement with the city of Seattle. Bennett said KeyArena, where the Sonics played, lacked the amenities required to support an NBA franchise.

If built, the arena would add a third professional sports facility in the Sodo area, joining Safeco, home of the Seattle Mariners, and CenturyLink Field, home of the Seattle Seahawks and Seattle Sounders FC.​

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New Arena Options

Sodo District (South of Downtown)

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Bellevue (Former Safeway Distribution Center)

Bellevue is a Seattle suburb on the east side of Lake Washington - below is the plan for the future Light Rail route:

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Temporary Arena Options

Tacoma Dome
(renovation discussed)

__________


Key Arena

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Metro Seattle Market

Rank | Statistical Area | 2010 Pop | 2000 Pop | Change | NHL | NBA | NFL | MLB | MLS | Area Type
1|New York-Newark-Bridgeport, NY-NJ-CT-PA CSA|22,085,649|21,361,797|3.39%|3|2|2|2|1|CSA
2|Los Angeles-Long Beach-Riverside, CA CSA|17,877,006|16,373,645|9.18%|2|2||2|2|CSA
3|Chicago-Naperville-Michigan City, IL-IN-WI CSA|9,804,845|9,312,255|5.29%|1|1|1|2|1|CSA
4|Washington-Baltimore-Northern Virginia, DC-MD-VA-WV CSA|8,572,971|7,572,647|13.21%|1|1|2|2|1|CSA
5|Boston-Worcester-Manchester, MA-RI-NH CSA|7,559,060|7,298,695|3.57%|1|1|1|1|1|CSA
6|San Jose-San Francisco-Oakland, CA CSA|7,468,390|7,092,596|5.30%|1|1|2|2|1|CSA
7|Dallas-Fort Worth, TX CSA|6,731,317|5,487,956|22.66%|1|1|1|1|1|CSA
8|Philadelphia-Camden-Vineland, PA-NJ-DE-MD CSA|6,533,683|6,207,223|5.26%|1|1|1|1|1|CSA
9|Houston-Baytown-Huntsville, TX CSA|6,051,363|4,815,122|25.67%||1|1|1|1|CSA
10|Atlanta-Sandy Springs-Gainesville, GA-AL CSA|5,618,431|4,548,344|23.53%||1|1|1||CSA
11|Miami-Fort Lauderdale-Pompano Beach, FL MSA|5,564,635|5,007,564|11.12%|1|1|1|1||MSA
12|Detroit-Warren-Flint, MI CSA|5,218,852|5,357,538| −2.59% |1|1|1|1||CSA
13 | Seattle-Tacoma-Olympia, WA CSA|4,199,312|3,707,144|13.28%|||1|1|1|CSA
14 | Phoenix-Mesa-Glendale, AZ MSA|4,192,887|3,251,876|28.94%|1|1|1|1||MSA
15|Minneapolis-St. Paul-St. Cloud, MN-WI CSA|3,615,902|3,271,888|10.51%|1|1|1|1||CSA
16|San Diego-Carlsbad-San Marcos, CA MSA|3,095,313|2,813,833|10.00%|||1|1||MSA
17|Denver-Aurora-Boulder, CO CSA|3,090,874|2,629,980|17.52%|1|1|1|1|1|CSA
18|Cleveland-Akron-Elyria, OH CSA|2,881,937|2,945,831| −2.17% ||1|1|1||CSA
19|St. Louis-St. Charles-Farmington, MO-IL CSA|2,878,255|2,754,328|4.50%|1||1|1||CSA
20|Orlando-Deltona-Daytona Beach, FL CSA|2,818,120|2,191,081|28.62%||1||||CSA
21|Tampa-St. Petersburg-Clearwater, FL MSA|2,783,243|2,395,997|16.16%|1||1|1||MSA
22|Sacramento–Arden Arcade–Yuba City, CA-NV CSA|2,461,780|2,069,298|18.97%||1||||CSA
23|Pittsburgh-New Castle, PA CSA|2,447,393|2,525,730| −3.10% |1||1|1||CSA
24|Charlotte-Gastonia-Salisbury, NC-SC CSA|2,402,623|1,897,034|26.65%||1|1|||CSA
25|Portland-Vancouver-Hillsboro, OR-WA MSA|2,226,009|1,927,881|15.46%||1|||1|MSA
26|Cincinnati-Middletown-Wilmington, OH-KY-IN CSA|2,172,191|2,050,175|5.95%|||1|1||CSA
27|San Antonio-New Braunfels, TX MSA|2,142,508|1,711,703|25.17%||1||||MSA
28|Kansas City-Overland Park-Kansas City, MO-KS CSA|2,104,853|1,901,070|10.72%|||1|1|1|CSA
29|Indianapolis-Anderson-Columbus, IN CSA|2,080,782|1,843,588|12.87%||1|1|||CSA
30|Columbus-Marion-Chillicothe, OH CSA|2,071,052|1,835,189|12.85%|1||||1|CSA
31|Las Vegas-Paradise-Pahrump, NV CSA|1,995,215|1,408,250|41.68%||||||CSA
32|Austin-Round Rock-Marble Falls, TX CSA|1,759,039|1,283,910|37.01%||||||CSA
33|Milwaukee-Racine-Waukesha, WI CSA|1,751,316|1,689,572|3.65%||1|1|1||CSA
34|Raleigh-Durham-Cary, NC CSA|1,749,525|1,314,589|33.09%|1|||||CSA
35|Salt Lake City-Ogden-Clearfield, UT CSA|1,744,886|1,469,474|18.74%||1|||1|CSA
36|Virginia Beach-Norfolk-Newport News, VA-NC MSA|1,671,683|1,576,370|6.05%||||||MSA
37|Nashville-Davidson–Murfreesboro–Columbia, TN CSA|1,670,890|1,381,287|20.97%|1||1|||CSA
38|Greensboro–Winston-Salem–High Point, NC CSA|1,589,200|1,414,656|12.34%||||||CSA
39|Louisville/Jefferson County–Elizabethtown–Scottsburg, KY-IN CSA|1,427,483|1,292,482|10.45%||||||CSA
40|Jacksonville, FL MSA|1,345,596|1,122,750|19.85%|||1|||MSA
41|Hartford-West Hartford-Willimantic, CT CSA|1,330,809|1,257,709|5.81%||||||CSA
42|Oklahoma City-Shawnee, OK CSA|1,322,429|1,160,942|13.91%||1||||CSA
43|Grand Rapids-Muskegon-Holland, MI CSA|1,321,557|1,254,661|5.33%||||||CSA
44|Memphis, TN-MS-AR MSA|1,316,100|1,205,204|9.20%||1||||MSA
45|Greenville-Spartanburg-Anderson, SC CSA|1,266,995|1,128,104|12.31%||||||CSA
46|Richmond, VA MSA|1,258,251|1,096,957|14.70%||||||MSA
47|Buffalo-Niagara-Cattaraugus, NY CSA|1,215,826|1,254,066| −3.05% |1||1|||CSA
48|New Orleans-Metairie-Bogalusa, LA CSA|1,214,932|1,360,436| −10.70% ||1|1|||CSA
49|Birmingham-Hoover-Cullman, AL CSA|1,208,453|1,129,721|6.97%||||||CSA
50|Albany-Schenectady-Amsterdam, NY CSA|1,168,485|1,118,095|4.51%||||||CSA

U.S. Local TV Market Rankings
Ranked by Number of TV Households per Designated Market Area (DMA)
As Of August 30, 2011

Rank | Designated Market Area (DMA) | # of TV Households
1|New York|7,387,810
2|Los Angeles|5,569,780
3|Chicago|3,493,480
4|Philadelphia|2,993,370
5|Dallas-Ft. Worth|2,571,310
6|San Francisco - Oakland - San Jose|2,506,510
7|Boston (Manchester)|2,379,690
8|Washington, DC|2,360,180
9|Atlanta|2,292,640
10|Houston|2,185,260
11|Detroit|1,842,650
12 | Seattle-Tacoma |1,811,420
13 | Phoenix |1,811,330
14|Tampa - St. Petersburg|1,788,240
15|Minneapolis - St.Paul|1,721,940
16|Miami-Ft.Lauderdale|1,583,800
17|Denver|1,548,570
18|Cleveland-Akron|1,514,170
19|Orlando-Daytona Beach|1,465,460
20|Sacramento-Stockton-Modesto|1,388,570
21|St.Louis|1,253,920
22|Portland, OR|1,190,010
23|Pittsburgh|1,171,490
24|Raleigh-Durham|1,143,420
25|Charlotte|1,140,900
26|Indianapolis|1,109,970
27|Baltimore|1,097,310
28|San Diego|1,077,600
29|Nashville|1,024,560
30|Hartford - New Haven|1,006,280
31|Kansas City|939,740
32|Columbus, OH|932,680
33|Salt Lake City|927,540
34|Milwaukee|907,660
35|Cincinnati|896,090
36|San Antonio|880,690
37|Greenville-Asheville|860,930
38|West Palm Beach|788,020
39|Birmingham|738,790
40|Las Vegas|737,300
41|Harrisburg-Lancaster-Lebanon-York|729,440
42|Grand Rapids - Kalamazoo|722,150
43|Norfolk - Portsmouth - Newport News|718,750
44|Oklahoma City|712,630
45|Albuquerque - Santa Fe|710,050
46|Greensboro - High Point|691,200
47|Austin|686,830
48|Louisville|674,050
49|Memphis|669,940
50|Jacksonville|669,840

Seattle to Vancouver

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Current Seattle Area Hockey Teams

WHL US Division

Team|City|Arena|Region
Seattle Thunderbirds |Kent, Washington, United States|ShoWare Center| Metro Seattle Everett Silvertips |Everett, Washington, United States|Comcast Arena at Everett| Metro Seattle Spokane Chiefs |Spokane, Washington, United States|Spokane Veterans Memorial Arena|Eastern WA State
Tri-City Americans |Kennewick, Washington, United States|Toyota Center|Eastern WA State
Portland Winterhawks |Portland, Oregon, United States|Memorial Coliseum & Rose Garden|Metro Portland

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History of Seattle Hockey
Seattle Metropolitans - 1917 Stanley Cup Champions - played at the Seattle Ice Arena, 1200 Fifth Avenue, downtown Seattle (since replaced by an office tower)

Hockey In Seattle - $15.99 Amazon

Book Description (Publication Date: November 16, 2004)
Professional, semi-pro, and junior league hockey teams have skated on Seattle ice for nearly a century. Great players like Frank Foyston, Bill MacFarland, Guyle Fielder, and Glen Goodall have thrilled fans and led their teams to championships. Hockey in Seattle is the story of these men and their teams. These stories are all here the birth of hockey in Seattle, the 1917 Stanley Cup champions, the glory years of the Totems in the 1960s, and the Thunderbirds of today. Along the way you ll meet the players, owners, and fans that make up Seattle s colorful history as a hockey town. Put on your skates, pick up your stick, and relive the memories.

About the Author
Jeff Obermeyer is a 13-year season ticket holder with the Seattle Thunderbirds of the Western Hockey League. His work has been published in Nostalgia Magazine and he helped produce a series of two-minute radio spots on Seattle hockey history heard on Thunderbirds broadcasts.


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Seattle Uniform Concepts

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Old Thread: http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=908743
Nickname Thread: http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=1096759

Click to read more...

 

[Melrose Munch]

Very nice.

 

[MoreOrr]

I'm sold.

 

[No Fun Shogun]

Quality OP, TC.

Regardless of where the Yotes end up, it sure is going to be a weird day when this entire ordeal's finally behind us.....

.... and then we can start talking about other troubled teams on the relocation block for the next five years.

 

[gernb]

A little bit more on the hockey history in Seattle beyond the Metropolitans can be found here (not my website):

http://www.seattlehockey.net/Seattle_Hockey_Homepage/Seattle_Hockey_Homepage.html


As you can see, there has been a constant hockey presence in Seattle even after the Metros.

 

[Ugmo]

Not to be a D-Bag, but if Seattle ends up with the Coyotes instead of QC I will hate them for as long as it takes for QC to get a team. I have nothing at all against Seattle and I presume they'd be a decent NHL city, but that would p... me off royal.

 

[Bear of Bad News]

A little bit more on the hockey history in Seattle beyond the Metropolitans can be found here (not my website):

http://www.seattlehockey.net/Seattle_Hockey_Homepage/Seattle_Hockey_Homepage.html


As you can see, there has been a constant hockey presence in Seattle even after the Metros.

That Obermeyer is a great read - I don't know if they still sell it at the Showare Center, but it's worth tracking down (and I think it's available on Amazon).

 

[beenhereandthere]

I remember what it was like not too long ago....having 8 teams in Canada and only 1 team entirely West of the Mississippi River and no teams South of Washington, DC.
Losing 2 teams to Canada....would slowly but surely give me that feeling again.....
Seattle makes big time sense......
For Canada and just pure $, sure, Quebec makes the most sense.......
but, it's the same metaphor as a drop dead gorgeous woman, being able to make at least 120k in Porn or Stripping, vs. being able to live comfortably on 60k a year, working on where she uses her brain or something that's not as taboo.....(Quebec being the example of the Porn or Stripper).
in summary, money, while important, shouldn't be the be all end all, I think the NHL realizes that to some degree.

 

[kdb209]

Very nice.

Yup - you've set a new standard for BoH Game Day Threads Franchise Fortnight(*) Threads.

(*) "Two Weeks" modulo the Reality Distortion Field around these parts.

We may need to call in help from the Sharks board for the next Phoenix FFT.

 

[Sergei Goldenhands]

I remember what it was like not too long ago....having 8 teams in Canada and only 1 team entirely West of the Mississippi River and no teams South of Washington, DC.
Losing 2 teams to Canada....would slowly but surely give me that feeling again.....
Seattle makes big time sense......
For Canada and just pure $, sure, Quebec makes the most sense.......
but, it's the same metaphor as a drop dead gorgeous woman, being able to make at least 120k in Porn or Stripping, vs. being able to live comfortably on 60k a year, working on where she uses her brain or something that's not as taboo.....(Quebec being the example of the Porn or Stripper).
in summary, money, while important, shouldn't be the be all end all, I think the NHL realizes that to some degree.

That could be the worst metaphor I've ever seen right there.

If you really wanted to compare the Quebec vs. Seattle with a drop-dead woman, it would be the following:



The drop-dead beauty (the NHL) has the choice between getting a well-paid job as a secretary in Quebec where she is sure to get 60k a year guaranteed for at least decade in a company that would love having one.

OR

She can pursue her lifelong dream of becoming a supermodel (expansion in the US, Growing the game) in Seattle, where she's not certain on finding an agent and if her career will take off. If she fails, she's going to be homeless and will probably fall into drugs and alcohol. However, if she succeed, all bets are off and she could become a multi-milionnaire. We also have to consider that a supermodel career doesn't always last, especially if there's another beauty pageant from the past that comes back to town (NBA's Sonics)

 

[Awesome Sauce]

Great first post for the thread!

 

[Melrose Munch]

Yup - you've set a new standard for BoH Game Day Threads Franchise Fortnight(*) Threads.

(*) "Two Weeks" modulo the Reality Distortion Field around these parts.

We may need to call in help from the Sharks board for the next Phoenix FFT.

 

[Melrose Munch]

Not to be a D-Bag, but if Seattle ends up with the Coyotes instead of QC I will hate them for as long as it takes for QC to get a team. I have nothing at all against Seattle and I presume they'd be a decent NHL city, but that would p... me off royal.

It's sports, what are you getting so worked up for? Quebec lost a team to Comcast remember?

Just wait and see.

 

[beenhereandthere]

That could be the worst metaphor I've ever seen right there.

If you really wanted to compare the Quebec vs. Seattle with a drop-dead woman, it would be the following:



The drop-dead beauty (the NHL) has the choice between getting a well-paid job as a secretary in Quebec where she is sure to get 60k a year guaranteed for at least decade in a company that would love having one.

OR

She can pursue her lifelong dream of becoming a supermodel (expansion in the US, Growing the game) in Seattle, where she's not certain on finding an agent and if her career will take off. If she fails, she's going to be homeless and will probably fall into drugs and alcohol. However, if she succeed, all bets are off and she could become a multi-milionnaire. We also have to consider that a supermodel career doesn't always last, especially if there's another beauty pageant from the past that comes back to town (NBA's Sonics)

Interesting, but again, yes the NHL would make more $ in Quebec,...but doesn't mean that it should be the only factor to look at in this decision and I hop they realize that....
I don't want to see the Coyotes move to Quebec, until ALL options of moving them to another US city, even besides Seattle, were exhausted.
Again, Quebec, should get an expansion team, instead of a relocated one.

 

[cbcwpg]

Has there been any talk in Seattle how getting an NHL team there could or would affect the Thunderbirds?

 

[Sergei Goldenhands]

Interesting, but again, yes the NHL would make more $ in Quebec,...but doesn't mean that it should be the only factor to look at in this decision and I hop they realize that....
I don't want to see the Coyotes move to Quebec, until ALL options of moving them to another US city, even besides Seattle, were exhausted.
Again, Quebec, should get an expansion team, instead of a relocated one.

I have no doubt that the NHL is looking into ALL the options other than moving the team in Quebec. After all, the NHL is a business and wants to makes the most money long-term.

This ''Let's grow the game'' argument is not necessarily the direction to go in order to get the most value out of their franchises.
Let's get real here, when the NHL expanded into the southern market to ''grow the game'', they actually simply moved the teams and expanded there because of the positive NPV that those projects could generate at that time (and with their economic forecast).

Since then, the economics of the game and of North America have changed and the value of getting teams in markets like Quebec and Winnipeg is now higher on the medium to long-term than moving them in unproven US markets , especially when you include revenues from TV contracts etc.

Also, the expansion vs. relocation is kind of a moot point. If Quebec is granted an expansion team, it will certainly have SOME negative value impact compared to being granted a relocation. I'm fairly certain that if, RIGHT NOW, both Seattle and Quebec were ready to host NHL teams. Seattle would get the relocation and Quebec would get the expansion because the impact of having a team that sucks would be somewhat reduced in QC. But as of now, it's not worth passing on 4 years or so of certain revenues in Quebec to take a gamble on Seattle right now. You also have to take in the fact that the price of an expansion franchise would have to be lower than the relocation of an established franchise (right...right?)

 

[beenhereandthere]

Has there been any talk in Seattle how getting an NHL team there could or would affect the Thunderbirds?

Tried to look on the T Birds website, they don't really address that.....
they're locked into a lease with the City of Kent for 20 years....so unless they used the bankruptcy process to leave, they will probably stay, even if their attendance took a huge hit, which most likely it would.....
it's just my feeling, don't know that for sure.

 

[MuzikMachine]

That could be the worst metaphor I've ever seen right there.

If you really wanted to compare the Quebec vs. Seattle with a drop-dead woman, it would be the following:



The drop-dead beauty (the NHL) has the choice between getting a well-paid job as a secretary in Quebec where she is sure to get 60k a year guaranteed for at least decade in a company that would love having one.

OR

She can pursue her lifelong dream of becoming a supermodel (expansion in the US, Growing the game) in Seattle, where she's not certain on finding an agent and if her career will take off. If she fails, she's going to be homeless and will probably fall into drugs and alcohol. However, if she succeed, all bets are off and she could become a multi-milionnaire. We also have to consider that a supermodel career doesn't always last, especially if there's another beauty pageant from the past that comes back to town (NBA's Sonics)

This may be a throwback most people's childhood, but this almost equates to an Archie comic. The NHL is Archie, wanting desperatly to be with Veronica (Seattle), however Betty (Quebec City) desperatly wants to be with Archie. Betty is definitly Archie's 2nd choice and the jury is out on whether Veroncia (Seattle) is really interested in Archie (NHL) or a more attractive option (the NBA)...although Phoenix falls in somewhere as well.

 

[matCH penalty]

...although Phoenix falls in somewhere as well.

Big Ethel.

 

[castle]

Big Ethel.

she's after Jughead though.

maybe Archie's mom?

 

[beenhereandthere]

she's after Jughead though.

maybe Archie's mom?

Archie's mom, if the Archies were in West Virginia or eastern Kentucky.....
I was thinking more like Moose = Phoenix.

 

[CpatainCanuck]

Seattle was having trouble supporting the Supersonics...wouldn't hockey be less popular than basketball there?

It seems like a situation of too many sports franchises for the sportsfan to support. If Seattle got all 4 major sports, hockey would be the low-man on the totem pole.

 

[CpatainCanuck]

I remember what it was like not too long ago....having 8 teams in Canada and only 1 team entirely West of the Mississippi River and no teams South of Washington, DC.
Losing 2 teams to Canada....would slowly but surely give me that feeling again.....
Seattle makes big time sense......
For Canada and just pure $, sure, Quebec makes the most sense.......
but, it's the same metaphor as a drop dead gorgeous woman, being able to make at least 120k in Porn or Stripping, vs. being able to live comfortably on 60k a year, working on where she uses her brain or something that's not as taboo.....(Quebec being the example of the Porn or Stripper).
in summary, money, while important, shouldn't be the be all end all, I think the NHL realizes that to some degree.

What a bad metaphor!

 

[beenhereandthere]

Hhm....wouldn't a Canucks fan, want a team in Seattle more (or as equally) as they would want a team in Quebec City?
It would be about the only town, if Seattle was awarded a franchise, where the Canucks would be back home in their own houses....by 100a, after a night game.....and the only town where Canucks fans could see their team, on a day trip, as opposed to overnighting...

 

[Melrose Munch]

Seattle was having trouble supporting the Supersonics...wouldn't hockey be less popular than basketball there?

It seems like a situation of too many sports franchises for the sportsfan to support. If Seattle got all 4 major sports, hockey would be the low-man on the totem pole.

Seattle is bigger than Vancouver and an actual sports town unlike Vancouver.