Music: Metallica's Load 20 years later

[SJSharksfan39]

I really, really like King Nothing.

The version of Until it Sleeps on S&M is also fantastic

While I liked Load, It was such a missed opportunity they didn't do Fade to Black with the symphony. That would have been awesome.

 

[Hivemind]

Waa waa waa your post just make it sound like you have a personal hate for Metallica. You look for anything and everything to validate in your mind that they "sold out". Metallica sold out but Iron Maiden is flying around in a jet they bought just like Metallica and they didn't? hmmmm

In what world did Iron Maiden sell out? We literally heard someone else gripe that they didn't change their sound enough just a few posts ago.

And, hell, at least get the facts correct before you try and paint them as sell outs. They didn't buy a jet. The plane still belongs to the airline that Bruce Dickinson is a pilot for (Astraeus Airlines). They just rent it for their tours.

But, yeah, Iron Maiden totally sold out. Okay.

 

[Hivemind]

I don't see it as a personal hate towards Metallica. I see it as a personal love to the idea of what "metal" was all about, and an irrational hate that the metal culture lost steam and evolved with time. It created such a culture and there were a mass amount of people who believed that culture was real. The heavy metal culture really was quite an amazing thing, but like every era in music... it's not forever. So when bands adapted or left that overall genre, fans felt cheated.. for which i'll never understand.

Once again, you're talking out of your behind. Metal culture didn't "lost steam." It's not "over." Genuine metal culture was never popular. You seem to be confusing the hair/glam metal popularity of the 80s with actual genuine heavy metal. Metalheads don't give a **** how popular metal culture is, nor has the music or culture of diehard metalheads ever been popular in the first place.

 

[PBandJ]

I don't see it as a personal hate towards Metallica. I see it as a personal love to the idea of what "metal" was all about, and an irrational hate that the metal culture lost steam and evolved with time. It created such a culture and there were a mass amount of people who believed that culture was real. The heavy metal culture really was quite an amazing thing, but like every era in music... it's not forever. So when bands adapted or left that overall genre, fans felt cheated.. for which i'll never understand.

Music is subjective. This guy that I play hockey with still won't leave the 80s/90s and loves Pantera to death. He irrationally hates all music because it's not that music. He won't even listen to new-age music with the perceived notion that it's anti-metal. He believed in the metal culture and absolutely refuses to change.

I think it's cool. If music moved you that much, then who cares? It's all subjective anyway. Live/die by what moves you the most and don't let anyone tell you different. But on the flip side, if a band decides to change or adapt with the times, don't call them "sellouts" or hate on them for it. Just appreciate what moves you the most and continue on. There was never some lifelong contract that Metallica promised to their fans that they'd only produce albums such as Kill 'em All, Ride the Lightning, and Master of Puppets. That never happened. So why is any negativity focused on Metallica's new style of music?

You're 100% right.

A lot of newer metal bands have a very difficult time getting going too because of the fanbase. They refuse to move on from the past and anything that doesn't sound like the 80's are a bunch of posers to them.

The metal fanbase is legitimately one of the most toxic, self destructive fanbases in the world.

 

[ColePens]

You're 100% right.

A lot of newer metal bands have a very difficult time getting going too because of the fanbase. They refuse to move on from the past and anything that doesn't sound like the 80's are a bunch of posers to them.

The metal fanbase is legitimately one of the most toxic, self destructive fanbases in the world.

Once again, you're talking out of your behind. Metal culture didn't "lost steam." It's not "over." Genuine metal culture was never popular. You seem to be confusing the hair/glam metal popularity of the 80s with actual genuine heavy metal. Metalheads don't give a **** how popular metal culture is, nor has the music or culture of diehard metalheads ever been popular in the first place.

These two responses couldn't be better timed. Almost storybook written. AE hit the nail on the head, IMO. And then you see it on display with Hivemind. It's like a plea that metal culture is never called popular. They always want to stay underground and if anything surfaces to the top, they are posers or they are fake/sold out.

Hivemind, we aren't picking on you here. You are defensive because you are trying to back the idea of a metal culture. Metallica never made a statement saying they will always stay true to what Metalheads wanted. Metalheads made that up, not Metallica. Metalheads adopted Metallica as their leader because of such great albums. There was never a time Metallica put a letter out stating they are the leader of this culture and will never change their music. You and the rest of the diehards made that up. Metallica didn't sell out. You stopped liking their music because it didn't appeal to you. Thus we always say - music is subjective.

And like always. Music is subjective. So there is no right/wrong in terms of what is good. That's all subjective. So if you stopped enjoying their music, that is all. They didn't sell out. They didn't quit on you. You, unfortunately, named them your leader of the metal culture and when they changed their sound up, the culture turned their backs on them instead of just moving on.

 

[ColePens]

One side question about Metallica.

I remember an interview where they said they always sang Whiskey in the Jar and loved that song, thus doing their own version of it. Wouldn't that be telling of their musical influence to not 100% be on heavy metal and actually more along the lines of AJFA, Black album, Load, Re-load?

My memory is not always the best. But you would think that would actually showcase what Metallica actually wanted to do inevitably with their music.

 

[Hivemind]

These two responses couldn't be better timed. Almost storybook written. AE hit the nail on the head, IMO. And then you see it on display with Hivemind. It's like a plea that metal culture is never called popular. They always want to stay underground and if anything surfaces to the top, they are posers or they are fake/sold out.

Hivemind, we aren't picking on you here. You are defensive because you are trying to back the idea of a metal culture. Metallica never made a statement saying they will always stay true to what Metalheads wanted. Metalheads made that up, not Metallica. Metalheads adopted Metallica as their leader because of such great albums. There was never a time Metallica put a letter out stating they are the leader of this culture and will never change their music. You and the rest of the diehards made that up. Metallica didn't sell out. You stopped liking their music because it didn't appeal to you. Thus we always say - music is subjective.

And like always. Music is subjective. So there is no right/wrong in terms of what is good. That's all subjective. So if you stopped enjoying their music, that is all. They didn't sell out. They didn't quit on you. You, unfortunately, named them your leader of the metal culture and when they changed their sound up, the culture turned their backs on them instead of just moving on.

You've openly admitted you didn't know much about metal, now you continue to try and tell me why I feel the way I do? You continue to try and educate people about how the metal culture operates?



Here's a novel idea, how about you let the person who's actually involved with metal tell you how it is? Rather than making your declarative statements from an outsider perspective, you actually listen to the person who knows what they're talking about? To hyperbolize the situation, right now you're the white guy who's telling the black guy what it's like to be black, and how changing black culture will lead them all out of the ghetto. (Once again, that's obviously hyperbole, but I'm using it to get my point across).

The point here is you don't understand what you're talking about. You're not listening to the perspective of the actual metalhead when you're talking about metalheads. Nobody ever anointed Metallica as "the leaders of metal culture." Nobody is upset that "they quit on us." Metalheads still turn out in droves for Metallica shows, especially because they play far more old material than new material. In general, most metalheads still love Metallica.

You're right, music is subjective. This thread specifically asked what people felt about Load. Metalheads turned up and shared our opinion that it's a garbage album from after Metallica sold out. That doesn't mean that middle of the road rock fans aren't allowed to like it. Listen to Load as much as you want.
People tried to dispute them selling out, I mocked those points because Metallica selling out is a fact. Bob Rock said as much when he produced their self-titled, and Metallica's own quips about the issue simply refer to how popular they are/how much money they make. There's nothing objectively wrong with selling out, but the expectation that the fans of the older material must somehow credit the new material is bunk. Similarly to how there was no contract that Metallica must always sound the same, there was no contract that the fans of the thrash-era Metallica must support butt rock-era Metallica.

With regards to Metallica never claiming they'll stay true, it doesn't matter. As I've been over, you're completely missing the point with this talk.
But just to reinforce how much you don't know what you're talking about, here's the lyrics to "Whiplash"

Late at night, all systems go
You’ve come to see the show
We do our best, you’re the rest
You make it real, you know
There is a feeling deep inside
That drives you ****in’ mad
A feeling of a hammerhead
You need it oh so bad

Adrenaline starts to flow
You’re thrashing all around
Acting like a maniac
Whiplash

Bang your head against the stage
Like you never did before
Make it ring, make it bleed
Make it really sore
In a frenzied madness
With your leathers and your spikes
Heads are bobbing all around
It’s hot as hell tonight

Adrenaline starts to flow
You’re thrashing all around
Acting like a maniac
Whiplash

Here on stage the Marshall noise
Is piercing through your ears
It kicks your ass, kicks your face
Exploding feeling nears
Now’s the time to let it rip
To let it ****in’ loose
We’re gathered here to maim and kill
‘Cause this is what we choose

Adrenaline starts to flow
You’re thrashing all around
Acting like a maniac

Here we go

Whiplash

The show is through, the metal’s gone
It’s time to hit the road
Another town, another gig
Again we will explode
Hotel rooms and motorways
Life out here is raw
But we’ll never stop
We’ll never quit
‘Cause we’re Metallica

Adrenaline starts to flow
You’re thrashing all around
Acting like a maniac

So they literally have a song about thrash metal, in which they say they're not going to stop thrashing.



The bottom line here is that metalheads don't give a rats ass about if something is popular or not. Metalheads still support what we like, regardless of popularity (see Black Sabbath, Iron Maiden, etc). We don't feel betrayed by Metallica, nor did we appoint them the leader of anything. That doesn't mean we have to unanimously and unquestioningly support what Metallica does afterwards. Rather than you making claims about what metalhead culture is or why we feel the way we do, you should actually listen.

 

[ColePens]

I mean hey... you will never agree with me or the other people. No, I'm not part of the metal group of people who live and die by the music. I respect them, but I am not part of it. Just because I'm not part of the metal movement doesn't mean I cannot comment.

That's what people are trying to say to you. The mindset is too parochial. The lyrics you posted, once again, never announced that Metallica owed your group anything or had to do anything to stay true to you. The music changed. Oh well. Life goes on. You could celebrate the fact that heavy metal made it mainstream. That's something you should be proud of. You don't have to love the music (remember.. subjective) but you can at least look back and say "wow... people never thought this music would make it!"

But hey, we will never agree here. So it's not worth page after page of me trying to tell my side of it while you defend til your death as if someone is taking your first born away from you.

 

[Xelebes]

You've openly admitted you didn't know much about metal,

Sorry, don't make me facepalm here. You don't need to be obsessive about metal to know what the fandom want and what the bands want. That is just empty boasting. Shally, conceited boasting.

I think ColePens is right. You put them on your pedestal and Metallica didn't want to be on your pedestal forever.

 

[beowulf]

In what world did Iron Maiden sell out? We literally heard someone else gripe that they didn't change their sound enough just a few posts ago.

And, hell, at least get the facts correct before you try and paint them as sell outs. They didn't buy a jet. The plane still belongs to the airline that Bruce Dickinson is a pilot for (Astraeus Airlines). They just rent it for their tours.

But, yeah, Iron Maiden totally sold out. Okay.

If Metallica sold out so did Iron Maiden, they are in it for the money as much as Metallica or any other big act. You just have a personal vendetta against Metallica. Also Black Sabbath has sold out if not they would not have got back together to play with Ozzy after all these years. They did it for the money.

 

[PBandJ]

Metalheads being in denial about bands being in it for money has always been amusing to me.

Every band is in it to make money to some extent.

 

[Hivemind]

There's nothing wrong with being in it for the money. The gripe about "selling out" is when you water down your sound for mainstream appeal. Iron Maiden never did that. Black Sabbath actually got further away from mainstream rock sounds. Metallica most certainly adapted their sound in order to achieve mainstream appeal. That's where the selling out gripe comes from.

That being said, not every band is even in it for the money. Almost all of my friends in bands don't give a crap about money. They're generally stoked to come home from a tour even. Recording an album is almost always a net negative, in terms of their wallet.

I mean hey... you will never agree with me or the other people. No, I'm not part of the metal group of people who live and die by the music. I respect them, but I am not part of it. Just because I'm not part of the metal movement doesn't mean I cannot comment.

You can comment, but you have no grounds to attempt to correct someone who's more knowledegable. Your comments should be taken with a grain of salt, because you lack the intimate knowledge of what you're talking about.

That's what people are trying to say to you. The mindset is too parochial. The lyrics you posted, once again, never announced that Metallica owed your group anything or had to do anything to stay true to you. The music changed. Oh well. Life goes on.

And life has gone on. This thread specifically asked what people felt about the Load album. Metal fans turned up to say it sucked, because in our opinion it did. Mainstream rock fans acted as if we shot their dog and declared metalheads to be parochial because we don't like a mainstream rock album. We're not upset because Metallica broke some oath. You keep trying to paint it as if we are, when that's simply not true. We simply don't like butt rock-era Metallica, and for some reason mainstream rock fans like yourself can't accept that and think that our culture is somehow flawed for that.

You could celebrate the fact that heavy metal made it mainstream. That's something you should be proud of.

Heavy metal Metallica didn't make it mainstream. Butt rock Metallica made it mainstream. Metallica's mainstream appeal was the result of a changed sound. Why should we be proud of that? Butt rock fans can be proud of that. Metal fans have no reason to celebrate that.

You don't have to love the music (remember.. subjective) but you can at least look back and say "wow... people never thought this music would make it!"

When did people think mainstream rock wouldn't make it?

Why do we care if our music "makes it" in the first place? I want music that I enjoy. I don't particularly care whether or not you enjoy it. You're welcome to enjoy it if you want, but your enjoyment doesn't impact mine in any way.

But hey, we will never agree here. So it's not worth page after page of me trying to tell my side of it while you defend til your death as if someone is taking your first born away from you.

Pot/Kettle

 

[ColePens]

The person who screams the loudest does not win the argument. I stated my thoughts. You stated yours.

The fact you are making this a personal attack-like debate is showing that you are subconsciously in doubt of your argument.

 

[Hivemind]

No doubts. Just inexplicable confusion why you continue to reiterate your thoughts, then claim it's not about "who shouts the loudest." If you would kindly illuminate which of my points you actually disagree with, rather than talking down about how metal fans are narrow minded and parochial who cannot adapt to change. If anything, that seems an awful lot like a personal attack-like debate tactic.

You must be subconsciously in doubt of your argument.

 

[67 others]

There's nothing wrong with being in it for the money. The gripe about "selling out" is when you water down your sound for mainstream appeal. Iron Maiden never did that. Black Sabbath actually got further away from mainstream rock sounds. Metallica most certainly adapted their sound in order to achieve mainstream appeal. That's where the selling out gripe comes from.

That being said, not every band is even in it for the money. Almost all of my friends in bands don't give a crap about money. They're generally stoked to come home from a tour even. Recording an album is almost always a net negative, in terms of their wallet.



You can comment, but you have no grounds to attempt to correct someone who's more knowledegable. Your comments should be taken with a grain of salt, because you lack the intimate knowledge of what you're talking about.


And life has gone on. This thread specifically asked what people felt about the Load album. Metal fans turned up to say it sucked, because in our opinion it did. Mainstream rock fans acted as if we shot their dog and declared metalheads to be parochial because we don't like a mainstream rock album. We're not upset because Metallica broke some oath. You keep trying to paint it as if we are, when that's simply not true. We simply don't like butt rock-era Metallica, and for some reason mainstream rock fans like yourself can't accept that and think that our culture is somehow flawed for that.



Heavy metal Metallica didn't make it mainstream. Butt rock Metallica made it mainstream. Metallica's mainstream appeal was the result of a changed sound. Why should we be proud of that? Butt rock fans can be proud of that. Metal fans have no reason to celebrate that.


When did people think mainstream rock wouldn't make it?

Why do we care if our music "makes it" in the first place? I want music that I enjoy. I don't particularly care whether or not you enjoy it. You're welcome to enjoy it if you want, but your enjoyment doesn't impact mine in any way.


Pot/Kettle

Not really. I didn't particularly care for their later stuff, but they didn't drastically alter their sound the way, say, Avenged sevenfold did overnight. Avenged went from Metalcore to Mallcore in 1 album after signing with Warner, who gave them directives to go more mainstream and encouraged the singer to take lessons and clean his vocals.

Metallica lost me at the Napster debacle. Mostly because they all spent years and years saying they would get their music out free to their fans and everyone if they could and that they were not in it for the money.

Then a platform came out which allowed them to get their music out free to everyone and they went ballistic suing them and saying "Effff the fans. They are stealing our money"

 

[beowulf]

There's nothing wrong with being in it for the money. The gripe about "selling out" is when you water down your sound for mainstream appeal. Iron Maiden never did that. Black Sabbath actually got further away from mainstream rock sounds. Metallica most certainly adapted their sound in order to achieve mainstream appeal. That's where the selling out gripe comes from.

That being said, not every band is even in it for the money. Almost all of my friends in bands don't give a crap about money. They're generally stoked to come home from a tour even. Recording an album is almost always a net negative, in terms of their wallet.



You can comment, but you have no grounds to attempt to correct someone who's more knowledegable. Your comments should be taken with a grain of salt, because you lack the intimate knowledge of what you're talking about.


And life has gone on. This thread specifically asked what people felt about the Load album. Metal fans turned up to say it sucked, because in our opinion it did. Mainstream rock fans acted as if we shot their dog and declared metalheads to be parochial because we don't like a mainstream rock album. We're not upset because Metallica broke some oath. You keep trying to paint it as if we are, when that's simply not true. We simply don't like butt rock-era Metallica, and for some reason mainstream rock fans like yourself can't accept that and think that our culture is somehow flawed for that.



Heavy metal Metallica didn't make it mainstream. Butt rock Metallica made it mainstream. Metallica's mainstream appeal was the result of a changed sound. Why should we be proud of that? Butt rock fans can be proud of that. Metal fans have no reason to celebrate that.


When did people think mainstream rock wouldn't make it?

Why do we care if our music "makes it" in the first place? I want music that I enjoy. I don't particularly care whether or not you enjoy it. You're welcome to enjoy it if you want, but your enjoyment doesn't impact mine in any way.


Pot/Kettle

There you go again with the idea that people who don't make money off of their music are somehow in it more for the music...

 

[sully1410]

I liked ..AND Justice for All better.

 

[67 others]

I liked ..AND Justice for All better.

A lot of people did. Its debut made #6 on the Billboard charts.

People point to the black album as being their mainstream album, but Justice snuck up there first.

When it comes down to it, Load and reload only sold as well as Justice. The black Album was the one that blew the charts.

Metallica at no point did a 100% mainstream turn when compared to a band like Avenged Sevenfold, who did it in one album at the behest of the major label who signed them and continued doing it more every album.

 

[Hivemind]

There you go again with the idea that people who don't make money off of their music are somehow in it more for the music...

Because it's true? They obviously aren't in it for the money, yet they keep spending their own time, energy, and money on producing music. What else would they be in it for?

I can tell you, if you're playing metal you certainly aren't in it for the women.

 

[TNT87]

One side question about Metallica.

I remember an interview where they said they always sang Whiskey in the Jar and loved that song, thus doing their own version of it. Wouldn't that be telling of their musical influence to not 100% be on heavy metal and actually more along the lines of AJFA, Black album, Load, Re-load?

My memory is not always the best. But you would think that would actually showcase what Metallica actually wanted to do inevitably with their music.

They did an outstanding job with that song.

 

[SJSharksfan39]

I remember when I first heard Metallica, the first two songs I heard was Whiskey in the Jar and Turn the Page. I thought they were a country band. Those two songs sound more country than a lot of the country songs today.

 

[Central PA Hawk Fan]

Ahh, Metallica sellout discussions, I feel like I'm back in highschool all over again.

 

[PBandJ]

Not really. I didn't particularly care for their later stuff, but they didn't drastically alter their sound the way, say, Avenged sevenfold did overnight. Avenged went from Metalcore to Mallcore in 1 album after signing with Warner, who gave them directives to go more mainstream and encouraged the singer to take lessons and clean his vocals.

To be fair, Shadows wouldn't have any voice left if he didn't take lessons and clean his vocals up.

It was fraying badly at one point before he committed to learning how to properly sing.

One side question about Metallica.

I remember an interview where they said they always sang Whiskey in the Jar and loved that song, thus doing their own version of it. Wouldn't that be telling of their musical influence to not 100% be on heavy metal and actually more along the lines of AJFA, Black album, Load, Re-load?

My memory is not always the best. But you would think that would actually showcase what Metallica actually wanted to do inevitably with their music.

The members of Metallica have long held varying influences.

Lars is big on Diamond Head and Deep Purple but also enjoys Oasis and AIC, James seems to gravitate towards country and southern rock like Skynyrd, Kirk has a lot of 70's rock influences like KISS and I can't find much for Cliff, but he was allegedly super eclectic himself.

The band was definitely never "metal all the time" or anything, and starting in the 90's, they began wearing their influences on their sleeve.

 

[RedWhiteBlackGold]

Always liked Load and Reload, along with their earlier stuff.

Not a fan of St. Anger tho.

 

[SJSharksfan39]

I'm a fan of some of the stuff on St. Anger. Songs like Frantic and Some Kind of Monster could have been great on maybe Justice. Other than that though, the album left a lot to be desired but I didn't think it was horrible.