Yeah... my brain for some reason put him entering and leaving Pittsburgh later than happened when I made that post. Which managed to add two cups (and therefore, two finals appearances) to his resume.
Messier overrated?
- Thread starter livewell68
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Yeah... my brain for some reason put him entering and leaving Pittsburgh later than happened when I made that post. Which managed to add two cups (and therefore, two finals appearances) to his resume.
vadim sharifijanov
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- Oct 10, 2007
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ironic that his most productive year was after gretzky and coffey were gone then, no?
GlitchMarner
Typical malevolent, devious & vile Maple Leafs fan
seventieslord
Student Of The Game
You bumped this ten year old thread to post this?
that's how you grind an axe though. This thread is the first thing that comes up if you google "mark messier overrated"
67 others
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here I was thinking "wow, haven't seen a lot of these posters for a few years"
Messier has been overrated to the point where he's honestly underrated
If we are speaking on hockey talent alone then, heck no Messier is not overrated. Mark was a carbon copy of Gordie Howe without the insane longevity. He belongs with Howe and Lindros on anyones top 10 power forwards list. If you dont get what I implied, that means top 3.
The one aspect of him I do find crazy overrated is his "leadership." The stories from his Vancouver days paints the picture of a power hungry narcissist whose biggest concern was his public image. A lot of captains could of "led" those Oilers teams to multiple cups imo anyways.
The one aspect of him I do find crazy overrated is his "leadership." The stories from his Vancouver days paints the picture of a power hungry narcissist whose biggest concern was his public image. A lot of captains could of "led" those Oilers teams to multiple cups imo anyways.
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scott clam
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scott clam
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His longevity was still insane, even if the last 7 years are kind of bleh.
Agreed.....he played a long time and had some great years. Agreed winning cup he bailed and went to Vancouver for $$$...his numbers tanked bc the team sucked.
The Panther
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Read over a few pages on this (ancient) thread.
I think I lost a few thousand brain cells...
I think I lost a few thousand brain cells...
scott clam
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Yeah, if he could have just checked his ego, instead of insisting on being "the man" when he was well past his prime, those years would have been remembered a lot more fondly. But it is what it is.
It's really too bad he didn't stay with Gretzky in NY.
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- Jan 22, 2007
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Nice bump.
Mark Messier "overrated"? Nonsense.
If I'm putting together an all-time team to save humanity, my first no-brainer selections are Mount Rushmore--Gretz, Mario, 4, and Gordie. After them, Messier and Bobby Clarke are my next two selections, period. After those six, I start adding for purpose. Messier was everything you want in a player, competitor and leader of men.
Mark Messier "overrated"? Nonsense.
If I'm putting together an all-time team to save humanity, my first no-brainer selections are Mount Rushmore--Gretz, Mario, 4, and Gordie. After them, Messier and Bobby Clarke are my next two selections, period. After those six, I start adding for purpose. Messier was everything you want in a player, competitor and leader of men.
BenchBrawl
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I know this is a bump, but here's my current opinion:
If anything, Mark Messier is underrated. Everyone in their prime, he'd be the 4th center I'd pick for a playoff run, ever (after Wayne, Mario and Jean). With Messier you just know he won't let you down. Also, he can go against anyone at center. He has no real weakness that you can exploit, so you must outcompete and out-excel him.
If anything, Mark Messier is underrated. Everyone in their prime, he'd be the 4th center I'd pick for a playoff run, ever (after Wayne, Mario and Jean). With Messier you just know he won't let you down. Also, he can go against anyone at center. He has no real weakness that you can exploit, so you must outcompete and out-excel him.
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The Panther
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Yep. From around 1983-84 to 1995-96, you take Messier over anybody, excepting (and even then not always) Wayne and Mario. Especially in big games and in playoffs.
In the late-80s and early-90s, there was general consensus that Messier was above players like Steve Yzerman (who in 1989 had a 155-point season). Messier won two Hart trophies with Gretzky and Lemieux as competition. Hell, the NHL players voted him best player ahead of Gretzky and Lemieux (albeit they did the same, in odd fashion, to Yzerman in 1989). He finished 2nd (to Gretzky), 3rd (to Gretzky & Lemieux), 5th, and 5th in the scoring race.
Messier won the Conn Smythe over Gretzky in 1984, and was Gretzky's equal, more or less, in scoring production through three rounds in 1987 and in 1988. In 1990, as Jeremy Roenick, Doug Wilson, and Mike Keenan will all tell you, he steamrolled the Blackhawks (from a 1-2 deficit in games) to lead Edmonton back to the Finals. He co-lead the 1990 playoffs in scoring.
This is all before he even went to New York, where he became a legend all over again!!
All this being said, I agree with the poster who said that, if anything, Messier became a less responsible defensive player in New York. By then he was a legend in his own time, and without a Sather to reign him in, he took more chances and did a bit less of the heavy lifting. But then again, that's probably fair when you're over 30 and already have five Stanley Cups...
In the late-80s and early-90s, there was general consensus that Messier was above players like Steve Yzerman (who in 1989 had a 155-point season). Messier won two Hart trophies with Gretzky and Lemieux as competition. Hell, the NHL players voted him best player ahead of Gretzky and Lemieux (albeit they did the same, in odd fashion, to Yzerman in 1989). He finished 2nd (to Gretzky), 3rd (to Gretzky & Lemieux), 5th, and 5th in the scoring race.
Messier won the Conn Smythe over Gretzky in 1984, and was Gretzky's equal, more or less, in scoring production through three rounds in 1987 and in 1988. In 1990, as Jeremy Roenick, Doug Wilson, and Mike Keenan will all tell you, he steamrolled the Blackhawks (from a 1-2 deficit in games) to lead Edmonton back to the Finals. He co-lead the 1990 playoffs in scoring.
This is all before he even went to New York, where he became a legend all over again!!
All this being said, I agree with the poster who said that, if anything, Messier became a less responsible defensive player in New York. By then he was a legend in his own time, and without a Sather to reign him in, he took more chances and did a bit less of the heavy lifting. But then again, that's probably fair when you're over 30 and already have five Stanley Cups...
scott clam
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His memoir is being released in October. This has the potential to be amazing, but it will probably suck like most NHL "autobiographies".
https://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/nhl/mark-messier-memoir-1.5970309
https://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/nhl/mark-messier-memoir-1.5970309
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I wonder what Canucks fans would think about this:
" I thought I was in the hockey business for 25 years, but I eventually realized I was in the people business," Messier said in a statement Tuesday. "Leading meant getting behind my teammates, or out in front of them; doing whatever was necessary to help them fulfil their potential.
"To me, helping people succeed was the game within the game. It was fascinating, frustrating, challenging, and most of all rewarding. My wish is that my story and the lessons in this book will inspire people to be their best."
hamzarocks
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Depends where you rank him
He isnt a better player than Crosby, McDavid, Ovechkin from the post 2005 era
But hes better than Joe Tho, Malkin, Kane and anyone else in that time period
He is probably 18th-30th best player all time
He isnt a better player than Crosby, McDavid, Ovechkin from the post 2005 era
But hes better than Joe Tho, Malkin, Kane and anyone else in that time period
He is probably 18th-30th best player all time
scott clam
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The Panther
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Remember a interview with Kent Nilsson on a Swedish podcast. He described Messier as a rather humble and quite dude off the ice. Did Nilsson have a mistaken impression or did Messiers personality change at the end of his career?
Spirit of 67
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MadLuke
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Later in his career he was giving press conference in the middle of the ice and making declaration off the ice of the style we will win game 6 and playing in tv ads and going to Letterman late night tv shows and on Howard Stern:
Mark Messier - IMDb
