OT: Memorial Cup - May 16-25 at Budweiser Gardens in London, ON

[Zarpan]

Personally, I'd be fine if he ended up as a 45 point centre in an average year with strong defensive abilities. That might not be an elite 2nd line centre, but it seems to be average at least.

 

[torlev*]

Sigh, you seem to be missing the point, or just choosing to ignore it. Kesler was playing first line minutes, of course his production is disappointing considering that. If he was playing 16-17 minutes and putting up 40ish points, it's absolutely fine production. It's just that our perspective has been skewed by his monster 40G season that makes some of us think that less than 70 points is poor for a 2nd line center.

You seem to be missing my point. There was a post earlier saying he did compare well to second line Centres even this year, and does every year, no matter what.

Even with the extra ice though, you agree, he didn't.

As with many though, due to injuries and other things, he shifted around a few roster spots. Including wing and first line Centre at some times.

 

[Baby Pettersson]

I question his skating and conditioning mostly. how many poor skaters turn out to be solid two-way centers?

Cody Hodgson was considered a great two-way prospect at one point, with excellent skating!..

http://www.hockeysfuture.com/prospects/cody_hodgson/

"Talent Analysis

Hodgson is a solid all around talent. He does not possess blinding speed, or flashy moves, but he tends to get the job done. He has developed into a fine two-way player. Hodgson is an extremely smart player who uses all of his skills in both ends of the ice. Excellent skater, very strong on the puck, can quarterback the powerplay. Hodson has very good hands and excellent on ice-vision."

I don't get how a random scouts opinion on Hodgson has anything to do with Horvat. Two extremely different players. Your honestly just showing that a random scout got his analysis wrong on a player. Oh my!

 

[torlev*]

But you're the one who used the point totals of Colorados "3 centres" to illustrate why 45 points was not a sufficient total, so if you concede that these "3 centres" are really forwards who sometimes play centre and sometimes play wing higher up in the order, then it invalidates your point as it relates to a 45 point 2C since they are not playing equivalent 2C minutes or with second line wingers.

Anyway, done with this topic as it is bordering too close to the Horvat v Nichushkin thread and will likely be shut down soon. Feel free to continue in that thread if you really want to discuss this further.

And yet, again, I wasn't even referring to horvat.

Some posters here are way too touchy about him. You got your panties in a bunch in a hurry on the mere thought I was knocking him.

 

[torlev*]

I don't get how a random scouts opinion on Hodgson has anything to do with Horvat. Two extremely different players. Your honestly just showing that a random scout got his analysis wrong on a player. Oh my!

The skating was off base. Leader and smart two way player were always listed as strengths of his.

 

[CherryToke]

I don't get how a random scouts opinion on Hodgson has anything to do with Horvat. Two extremely different players. Your honestly just showing that a random scout got his analysis wrong on a player. Oh my!

two extremely different players that have trouble keeping up with the play and are expected to be great two-way players.

 

[arttk]

You seem to be missing my point. There was a post earlier saying he did compare well to second line Centres even this year, and does every year, no matter what.

Even with the extra ice though, you agree, he didn't.

As with many though, due to injuries and other things, he shifted around a few roster spots. Including wing and first line Centre at some times.

You are desperately trying to twist the facts to match your point of 40ish points for 2nd line center is not good enough.

Kesler was only a "2nd line center" in name, his role and ice time far exceeded that and you acknowledged that. If he provided 40ish points with NORMAL 2nd line minutes and still provided typical Kesler level defense, it's a good season.

 

[just22]

I question his skating and conditioning mostly. how many poor skaters turn out to be solid two-way centers?

Cody Hodgson was considered a great two-way prospect at one point, with excellent skating!..

http://www.hockeysfuture.com/prospects/cody_hodgson/

"Talent Analysis

Hodgson is a solid all around talent. He does not possess blinding speed, or flashy moves, but he tends to get the job done. He has developed into a fine two-way player. Hodgson is an extremely smart player who uses all of his skills in both ends of the ice. Excellent skater, very strong on the puck, can quarterback the powerplay. Hodson has very good hands and excellent on ice-vision."

I just think you're being too harsh on him. You can't really compare him to Hodgson either. Horvat's got a better stride, is bigger, stronger, and protects the puck better.

 

[Lundface*]

two extremely different players that have trouble keeping up with the play and are expected to be great two-way players.

Horvat is an average skater, but he does tend to glide around quite a bit. When he decides to go there's nothing wrong with his skating.

The big difference between Hodgson and Horvat is that Bo plays big. He uses his body quite well to protect pucks or win battles. Hodgson on the other hand uses stick checks and tries to chip pucks by guys....becomes hard when he has a short reach and a choppy skating stride. Hodgson's style requires more speed, which he doesn't have.

I haven't been impressed by Horvat in the recent games I've watched of him, so I can understand being critical of him. But I have seen enough of him to know that when he's on he can be a force and that he has the tools even offensively (he's a great passer IMO with a decent shot and hands) to be able to keep up at the next level.

Today's game was one where everything was going poorly for London, but he still looked pretty good out there. The way I think about it....line him up next to Rychel and Kosmachuk and how do you think he'd look? Different situations completely change how a player performs, I'm willing to give him the summer and see how he looks at camp.

Will be fun when Horvat, Shinkaruk, Fox, Jensen, Gaunce, Corrado, Cassels, 6th overall pick, 36th pick and hopefully Hutton show up for camp. A lot of those guys will have legitimate chances to make the roster, if not at least be in the AHL. IMO Van has a deceptive group of prospects...they aren't high scoring guys but Jensen, Gaunce, Horvat are the types that seem to do better playing with men/better competition. I've never been too big on Gaunce but he had a great camp getting 3rd/4th line minutes.

 

[Vankiller Whale]

Well you implied Horvat is an average centre. If he is so elite defensively, rare talent on face-offs, great board work who is a big body and can hit, I can only assume you are talking about his lack of offensive abilities. No? Well then please enlighten me why you think he is so average.

45 points is "average" production for a 2nd line centre. And what makes Horvat more likely to be better defensively than those types of centres in the league? Fisher, Legwand, Zajac, Grabovski, etc, are all solid two-way players in their own right.

As I said, there's no guarantee Horvat ends up putting up Selke Calibre defense in the NHL just because he's a great defensive player in junior. Imho, his most likely projection is exactly as an average 2C similar to the ones I listed above.

 

[Taelin]

The London Knights have been eliminated from the Memorial Cup, so please direct all Horvat specific talk to his thread.

 

[Craz1bo1]

The Oil Kings win the Memorial Cup with a 6-3 win over the Guelph Storm.

I thought that the Storm would steamroll everybody. I guess I was wrong.

Congrats to the Oil Kings! Great game.