Meeting Complete - Goodenow/bettman Joining Talks Tomorrow

[417]

I would not be surprised to see Goodenow fired if the season is cancelled, either.

Goodenow is gone either way, bank it!

 

[Toonces]

Who does al trautwig work for?

MSG Network

 

[Isles72]

trautwig works for MSG

 

[Dat1guy]

Goodenow is gone either way, bank it!

How do you figure that? Based on what?

 

[Tom_Benjamin]

I think people who expect good things from tomorrow are dreaming. Goodenow is going to say two things to Gary in my opinion:

1) Only the owners can save a season because a cost certain CBA would take weeks, if not months. And in any case, the players aren't going to accept a cost certain CBA. "Steve Yzerman can't vote for your proposal," Bib will say, "and if Steve Yzerman won't vote for it, there aren't 10 players in the league who will vote for it."

If the players concede, the season is lost. If the players don't concede the season is lost. The players aren't conceding. Only the owners have time to concede if they want a season. Maybe Gary might consider calling a board of Governors meeting to discuss that angle.

2) The players are tired of this pissing around. Gary has until Valentine's day. If he hasn't moved by then, the players and Bob are going on vacation until September 1st. If Gary wants to go the impasse route, he can fill his boots. The NHLPA will see him in court, but after February 14th, that's the only place he will see him.

Maybe the best thing is if they don't talk for a whole year. A year from now the question will not be "Can the season be saved?" Next year, the question will be "Can the league be saved?"

I think that's Bob's spiel tomorrow, and then he's going to march out of the meeting and say the same thing to the press.

Gary's move.

Tom

 

[Scoogs]

His job was to get the best job possible. So far, he is losing that battle...

 

[VAN-HAB]

True, but getting together to announce the cancellation of the season together will make it look even worse than it can, because that tells the "public eye" that they only thing they can agree on, and even meet face to face, is to cancel the season, then it will just look like both sides didin't want to really negotiate...

They won't cancel the season tomorrow for sure, it doesn't make any sense. That's not why they meet tomorrow. IMO

 

[ryz]

I think people who expect good things from tomorrow are dreaming. Goodenow is going to say two things to Gary in my opinion:

1) Only the owners can save a season because a cost certain CBA would take weeks, if not months. And in any case, the players aren't going to accept a cost certain CBA. "Steve Yzerman can't vote for your proposal," Bib will say, "and if Steve Yzerman won't vote for it, there aren't 10 players in the league who will vote for it."

If the players concede, the season is lost. If the players don't concede the season is lost. The players aren't conceding. Only the owners have time to concede if they want a season. Maybe Gary might consider calling a board of Governors meeting to discuss that angle.

2) The players are tired of this pissing around. Gary has until Valentine's day. If he hasn't moved by then, the players and Bob are going on vacation until September 1st. If Gary wants to go the impasse route, he can fill his boots. The NHLPA will see him in court, but after February 14th, that's the only place he will see him.

Maybe the best thing is if they don't talk for a whole year. A year from now the question will not be "Can the season be saved?" Next year, the question will be "Can the league be saved?"

I think that's Bob's spiel tomorrow, and then he's going to march out of the meeting and say the same thing to the press.

Gary's move.

Tom

You speak as if the players have nothing to lose and are holding all the cards right now. You aren't paying much attention over the last few weeks. Are you?

 

[Melanson]

Who does al trautwig work for?

Not sure if that is a rhetorical question or not. If you are implying that he works for ownership and that is why his stance is what it is then I have to disagree. You can't argue with the pure economics of the sport. Football gets BILLIONS of dollars from national television contracts. The other sports get MILLIONS. The NHL right now gets ZERO unless NBC makes a profit.....if it does, the NHL splits that with NBC.

Where is the money supposed to come from?

 

[Donnie D]

Since all of us are just guessing about tomorrow, I'll take a stab too:

My guess is that the 2 sides remain far apart. The big guns are getting together, not because they are close to a deal, but to look each other in they eye and ask the other if they are really willing to throw away the season on principle. After about an hour, they will realize that the other is not going to blink and will break up the meeting.

The league will announce that they are canceling the 2004 - 2005 season but that they remain willing to sit down and talk to the union at any time about the long term systemic problems of the league. The union will state that they will never accept a salary cap; that they would rather shoot themselves in the wallet and play in Europe and in leagues throughout the US and Canada that have much lower caps than that proposed by the NHL. Yes, the players will look stupid, petty, and greedy but they won't care.

The next negotiating session will be in mid September to see if anyone has changed their mind.

Just my guess

 

[Cawz]

I think people who expect good things from tomorrow are dreaming.

This I agree with.

"and if Steve Yzerman won't vote for it, there aren't 10 players in the league who will vote for it."

This I dont.

If the players concede, the season is lost. If the players don't concede the season is lost.

This I dont understand. Is it a typo?

2) The players are tired of this pissing around. Gary has until Valentine's day. .

I think Bob has till tomorrow.

 

[Son of Steinbrenner]

Not sure if that is a rhetorical question or not. If you are implying that he works for ownership and that is why his stance is what it is then I have to disagree. You can't argue with the pure economics of the sport. Football gets BILLIONS of dollars from national television contracts. The other sports get MILLIONS. The NHL right now gets ZERO unless NBC makes a profit.....if it does, the NHL splits that with NBC.

Where is the money supposed to come from?

Why James Dolan signs Al Trautwigs paycheck. you know the same james dolan that wouldn't renew marv alberts contract because he was to critical of the knicks. Great the NHL got zero but who's fault is that? The players don't market the sport the owners do.

Great job gary at one time you got 600 million dollars but now you got a deal that the NLL AFL WNBA and MLS got. :lol

 

[Greschner4]

Why James Dolan signs Al Trautwigs paycheck. you know the same james dolan that wouldn't renew marv alberts contract because he was to critical of the knicks. Great the NHL got zero but who's fault is that? The players don't market the sport the owners do.

Great job gary at one time you got 600 million dollars but now you got a deal that the NLL AFL WNBA and MLS got. :lol

Dolan is Exhibit A for why there needs to be a salary cap. What an f-in moron.

 

[Son of Steinbrenner]

Dolan is Exhibit A for why there needs to be a salary cap. What an f-in moron.

He is a moron but why should the players pay for HIS MISTAKES?

He isn't a player he is an owner. Shouldn't the other owners be pissed he couldn't control himself?

 

[VAN-HAB]

Since all of us are just guessing about tomorrow, I'll take a stab too:

My guess is that the 2 sides remain far apart. The big guns are getting together, not because they are close to a deal, but to look each other in they eye and ask the other if they are really willing to throw away the season on principle. After about an hour, they will realize that the other is not going to blink and will break up the meeting.

The league will announce that they are canceling the 2004 - 2005 season but that they remain willing to sit down and talk to the union at any time about the long term systemic problems of the league. The union will state that they will never accept a salary cap; that they would rather shoot themselves in the wallet and play in Europe and in leagues throughout the US and Canada that have much lower caps than that proposed by the NHL. Yes, the players will look stupid, petty, and greedy but they won't care.

The next negotiating session will be in mid September to see if anyone has changed their mind.

Just my guess

Does the union expect to get more from the league in Septemeber? Why?

 

[bennysflyers16]

I think there has to be more to Dumb and Dumber not being involved in any of the recent negotiations. My hope is that they have been negotiating all along , and the other 4 guys have been put forward to distract the media. Thursday will be when they announce a new CBA. You can not have negotiations for something this big and not have the 2 head honchos not involved all along ( even if they are idiots and hate each other ) This is my last hope of optimism. If no deal Thursday, cancel the f'ing season already !

ps

GO EAGLES !!!

 

[Greschner4]

He is a moron but why should the players pay for HIS MISTAKES?

He isn't a player he is an owner. Shouldn't the other owners be pissed he couldn't control himself?

Obviously the other owners should be pissed and as a Ranger fan I'm pissed that my team is owned by a buffoon who tries to buy his way out of his ineptitude, only to see it blow up in his face.

A salary cap will actually help the Rangers, since they won't always waste their money on overpaid losers.

 

[avalanche_country]

Since all of us are just guessing about tomorrow, I'll take a stab too:

My guess is that the 2 sides remain far apart. The big guns are getting together, not because they are close to a deal, but to look each other in they eye and ask the other if they are really willing to throw away the season on principle. After about an hour, they will realize that the other is not going to blink and will break up the meeting.

The league will announce that they are canceling the 2004 - 2005 season but that they remain willing to sit down and talk to the union at any time about the long term systemic problems of the league. The union will state that they will never accept a salary cap; that they would rather shoot themselves in the wallet and play in Europe and in leagues throughout the US and Canada that have much lower caps than that proposed by the NHL. Yes, the players will look stupid, petty, and greedy but they won't care.

The next negotiating session will be in mid September to see if anyone has changed their mind.

Just my guess

I think this is exactly was is happening and is what is going to happen tomorrow ..... oh well !!! poker has been keeping me busy and my wallet even busier

 

[VAN-HAB]

I think there has to be more to Dumb and Dumber not being involved in any of the recent negotiations. My hope is that they have been negotiating all along , and the other 4 guys have been put forward to distract the media. Thursday will be when they announce a new CBA. You can not have negotiations for something this big and not have the 2 head honchos not involved all along ( even if they are idiots and hate each other ) This is my last hope of optimism. If no deal Thursday, cancel the f'ing season already !

ps

GO EAGLES !!!

100% agree, if no deal tomorrow, cancel the season I have had enough of these two.

 

[OilerFan4Life]

100% agree, if no deal tomorrow, cancel the season I have had enough of these two.

My sources tell me that is accurate

 

[417]

How do you figure that? Based on what?

Because he will not accomplish what he set out to do, I'm just guessing, but he will either step down or be fired, I expect the former to be more plausible

 

[417]

Since all of us are just guessing about tomorrow, I'll take a stab too:

My guess is that the 2 sides remain far apart. The big guns are getting together, not because they are close to a deal, but to look each other in they eye and ask the other if they are really willing to throw away the season on principle. After about an hour, they will realize that the other is not going to blink and will break up the meeting.

The league will announce that they are canceling the 2004 - 2005 season but that they remain willing to sit down and talk to the union at any time about the long term systemic problems of the league. The union will state that they will never accept a salary cap; that they would rather shoot themselves in the wallet and play in Europe and in leagues throughout the US and Canada that have much lower caps than that proposed by the NHL. Yes, the players will look stupid, petty, and greedy but they won't care.

The next negotiating session will be in mid September to see if anyone has changed their mind.

Just my guess

Well I heard Bill Daly this afternoon say on the team 1200 in an interview with James Cybulski, that this week is do or die, which pretty much means, the drop dead date has arrived, and that was the last proposal the NHL will put forth before they announce a season cancellation...

Which was exactly what Goodenow was looking for in the first place, a drop dead date (this technique is better known as deadline hunting), hence the reason why he decides to show his face tomorrow

 

[Digger12]

He is a moron but why should the players pay for HIS MISTAKES?

He isn't a player he is an owner. Shouldn't the other owners be pissed he couldn't control himself?

Should they? I would think so. Thing is, what can be done about it?

They'd get their asses dragged into court at the slightest hint of collusion, and asking 30 different entities w/ 30 varying agendas to simply spend within their means, while noble, is realistically a near-impossibility when they're all competing for the same prize. So what is left?

Find a way to legally regulate the spending habits of the teams. The most direct method to acheive that? A salary cap.

Is this fair to the players? Not really. Does fairness matter? Not at all. This is business to the owners, it's as plain as that. For the players, it's a much more emotional thing...and that's unfortunate.

 

[417]

Should they? I would think so. Thing is, what can be done about it?

They'd get their asses dragged into court at the slightest hint of collusion, and asking 30 different entities w/ 30 varying agendas to simply spend within their means, while noble, is realistically a near-impossibility when they're all competing for the same prize. So what is left?

Find a way to legally regulate the spending habits of the teams. The most direct method to acheive that? A salary cap.

Is this fair to the players? Not really. Does fairness matter? Not at all. This is business to the owners, it's as plain as that. For the players, it's a much more emotional thing...and that's unfortunate.

Excellent post when it comes down to it, people will say, ohh what about the game, but when it comes down to it, the NHL is a business, and must be thought of that way 1st, if the game is to survive

 

[Scoogs]

Well I heard Bill Daly this afternoon say on the team 1200 in an interview with James Cybulski, that this week is do or die, which pretty much means, the drop dead date has arrived, and that was the last proposal the NHL will put forth before they announce a season cancellation...

Which was exactly what Goodenow was looking for in the first place, a drop dead date (this technique is better known as deadline hunting), hence the reason why he decides to show his face tomorrow

A very good point. The NHLPA was looking for this date so they can "sick" Goodenow on the NHL. I really don't know how this is going to end up. There isnt much more that anyone can say on the issue. I think the thread should be retired, since its more than 15 pages old, lol.