Meeting Complete - Goodenow/bettman Joining Talks Tomorrow

[futurcorerock]

And, you shouldn't be using quotations tag in response to a post of a blog... i had easy access via your quote to said blog... Busted?

Oh My God.... NOOOOO!!!!!!

 

[Greschner4]

Exactly, why would they submit each other to the kind of barrage they would get if they were to announce the cancellation of the season together

That'll look great for both sides...

Bettman and Goodenow:the only thing they agree on is cancelling the season together, they haven't been able to agree on a damn thing since this whole thing started, but they're going to go ahead and announce the end of the season together...am I the only one who thinks that makes absolutely, unequivocally no sense at all?

I guess they're both going to be there so they can hold hands while they announce it right? it shows unity :lol

No you're not, because they're obviously not getting together to announce the cancellation of the season.

It looks to me like they just left the negotiations to their lieutenants for awhile and are now getting personally involved. Usually that's a very good sign, and it could be that here the lieutenants were sent out to flesh out some concepts each side might be able to live with (like profit sharing on top of a cap) and work out the parameters of a deal that the big guys would negotiate the details of and take to the finish line, but I wouldn't come close to taking that to the bank.

My best guess is that everyone believes enough progress has been made that it's worthwhile for Dumb and Dumber to get together to see if they can get a deal done. But it's by no means assured that they will.

It's only a guess.

 

[Levitate]

The only compromise I've seen from the players was the 24% rollback

the players are actually the ones that brought up the changes to arbitration and suggested giving teams the ability to take players to arbitration

the players also suggested changes to entry level contracts and to qualifying offers

the players also offered a luxery tax system (albiet a weak one that definatly needed more teeth)

 

[X-SHARKIE]

No you're not, because they're obviously not getting together to announce the cancellation of the season.

It looks to me like they just left the negotiations to their lieutenants for awhile and are now getting personally involved. Usually that's a very good sign, and it could be that here the lieutenants were sent out to flesh out some concepts each side might be able to live with (like profit sharing on top of a cap) and work out the parameters of a deal that the big guys would negotiate the details of and take to the finish line, but I wouldn't come close to taking that to the bank.

My best guess is that everyone believes enough progress has been made that it's worthwhile for Dumb and Dumber to get together to see if they can get a deal done. But it's by no means assured that they will.

It's only a guess.

Great post.

All I know is by the time I come home from the Barons vs Wolves game (AHL) I will know the fate of the NHL on Friday night.

Mabye tomorow night.

 

[Jester]

if the season is getting cancelled the NHLPA and more specifically our boy Bob will want to be as FAR away from that announcement as possible... eventually their rhetoric will fall back to, "the owners cancelled the season blah blah." thus, they aren't going to be at any meeting engineered to organize the cancellation of the season.

this is very positive. doesn't mean they will get it done, but it is definitely the meeting that will produce an answer for all of us i would imagine. even if they don't announce a deal, i'll be happy if they don't walk away tomorrow with some announcement saying, "no further meetings are planned."

probably have through this weekend.

 

[SENSfreak_03]

In the public eye, is it better for the NHL if Bettman's face is plastered on TV with the graphics saying "Season Cancelled" or both Bettman and Goodenow?

If Gary goes out there and cancels the season, the public perception and angst of the casual fan could (and likely would) swing against him, and synchronously Goodenow falls under the radar, fading into obscurity over the next months relatively scotch-free. If they cancel it jointly, they both shoulder the blame... as men... as they should.

Maybe they are both ready to take responsibility for what they are about to do.

true, but why would goodenow want to be associated with that? the pa has enough negative press as it is. goodenow would want all the flack to go towards bettman, and bettman vice versa, so they probably cant even agree on how to cancel the season.

 

[ryz]

the players are actually the ones that brought up the changes to arbitration and suggested giving teams the ability to take players to arbitration

the players also suggested changes to entry level contracts and to qualifying offers

the players also offered a luxery tax system (albiet a weak one that definatly needed more teeth)

All that was already a foregone conclusion. Everyone and their dog knew that was already comming. The NHLPA didn't bring those up as concessions. It remains true that the only thing the NHLPA has done this whole time is make a meaningless offer that everyone knew was gonna be rejected outright before it was even proposed and sit in their gold plated high-chairs with their silk bibs and say "NO! NO! NO!".

 

[MagnusJondus]

if the season is getting cancelled the NHLPA and more specifically our boy Bob will want to be as FAR away from that announcement as possible... eventually their rhetoric will fall back to, "the owners cancelled the season blah blah." thus, they aren't going to be at any meeting engineered to organize the cancellation of the season.

True. But maybe Bob is willing to accept his half of the responsibilty for this. Doubtful, but possible.

The key for me here is whether the location will be announced to the media. If so, they'll be a media circus and possibly a press conference (see the earlier "posturing 24% rollback" meetings).

If the season is cancelled both Bob and Gary should stand up, look into the camera and say "we have irreconcilable differences that we couldn't overcome to save the season."

Take responsibility. That's all I'm asking.

 

[417]

In the public eye, is it better for the NHL if Bettman's face is plastered on TV with the graphics saying "Season Cancelled" or both Bettman and Goodenow?

If Gary goes out there and cancels the season, the public perception and angst of the casual fan could (and likely would) swing against him, and synchronously Goodenow falls under the radar, fading into obscurity over the next months relatively scotch-free. If they cancel it jointly, they both shoulder the blame... as men... as they should.

Maybe they are both ready to take responsibility for what they are about to do.

No good can come out of the NHL season being cancelled, the last thing on either sides mind is going to be trying to save face in the wake of a season cancellation...

I don't know what's going to happen tomorrow, I really hope both sides stop putting the fans through this, because it's getting ridiculous, but Daly did say today that this week is do or die, so as i've always said that there will be a season, my logic tells me that a deal will be reached "in principle" tomorrow...

The one thing I do know about tomorrow, is that there isin't going to be an announcement to cancel the season tomorrow, and anyone who thinks this way, is just putting themselves through that for nothing

 

[krandor]

I want to be optimistic about there being more meetings, but it is so hard to do so.

I'm thinking this meeting is a PR meeting. With Goodenow and Bettman being non-involved so many weeks, it would probably be hard for them to cancel the season because the question would be asked why didn't the leaders of the two sides meet in the last few weeks. This way they can say they met together and tried to work it out before the end. I hope I'm wrong, but that NHLPA press releasae just does not look good.

 

[417]

True. But maybe Bob is willing to accept his half of the responsibilty for this. Doubtful, but possible.

The key for me here is whether the location will be announced to the media. If so, they'll be a media circus and possibly a press conference (see the earlier "posturing 24% rollback" meetings).

If the season is cancelled both Bob and Gary should stand up, look into the camera and say "we have irreconcilable differences that we couldn't overcome to save the season."

Take responsibility. That's all I'm asking.

Yes, should the season be cancelled (not going to happen) they should both step up to claim responsibility for it, but that dosen't mean they're going to call a meeting with both sides to announce it

 

[Levitate]

i don't particularly put much stock in the press released from each side, as i don't expect them to say anything positive until the deal is done and in place

the way i see it, either they're meeting to finally hammer out a deal or they're meeting to confirm that there is no common ground and this is getting nowhere. why they would need to meet to confirm that i dunno...give it one last go i guess, but i do just find it hard to believe that both sides are so willing to kill the season. it's gonna really hurt the NHL IMO if they do it. and i know i won't be watching any replacement players if the league manages to do that, i'd probably rather pay attention to the AHL in that case

 

[MagnusJondus]

No good can come out of the NHL season being cancelled, the last thing on either sides mind is going to be trying to save face in the wake of a season cancellation...

I don't know what's going to happen tomorrow, I really hope both sides stop putting the fans through this, because it's getting ridiculous, but Daly did say today that this week is do or die, so as i've always said that there will be a season, my logic tells me that a deal will be reached "in principle" tomorrow...

The one thing I do know about tomorrow, is that there isin't going to be an announcement to cancel the season tomorrow, and anyone who thinks this way, is just putting themselves through that for nothing

I think that both sides will try to save face in the wake of a cancellation. Neither side underestimates the court of public opinion.

I really don't think the season will be cancelled tomorrow. In an earlier post, I did say that its possible they'll get together and address some other issues such as the draft and the upcoming draft re-entries that may occur. If they can't agree on a cap, maybe they can at least agree on something important and productive.

Scenarios exist where this meeting tomorrow should not be a cause for instant optimism. That's my real point.

 

[417]

I want to be optimistic about there being more meetings, but it is so hard to do so.

I'm thinking this meeting is a PR meeting. With Goodenow and Bettman being non-involved so many weeks, it would probably be hard for them to cancel the season because the question would be asked why didn't the leaders of the two sides meet in the last few weeks. This way they can say they met together and tried to work it out before the end. I hope I'm wrong, but that NHLPA press releasae just does not look good.

The reason the NHLPA press release dosen't look good, is simple...

BOTH SIDES ARE STILL NEGOTIATING....the players have to make the owners believe to the bitter end that they won't ever accept a cap, even if they already have

 

[krandor]

If the reason is cancelled then they may as well take all the salary cap/luxury tax threshold numbers and drop them by at least $10M if not more.

 

[417]

I think that both sides will try to save face in the wake of a cancellation. Neither side underestimates the court of public opinion.

I really don't think the season will be cancelled tomorrow. In an earlier post, I did say that its possible they'll get together and address some other issues such as the draft and the upcoming draft re-entries that may occur. If they can't agree on a cap, maybe they can at least agree on something important and productive.

Scenarios exist where this meeting tomorrow should not be a cause for instant optimism. That's my real point.

I agree that this meeting tomorrow should not be a cause for instant optimism, but only because I think that the owners and the NHLPA are sick enough to put the fans through this for another week or two...

and no face can be saved if the season is cancelled, both sides will look bad, and no amount of public relations can fix that...

 

[Scoogs]

As said many times before... the best deal the players can get now. Do they think if they let the season drift away... they will get a better deal, come August?!

 

[MagnusJondus]

I agree that this meeting tomorrow should not be a cause for instant optimism, but only because I think that the owners and the NHLPA are sick enough to put the fans through this for another week or two...

and no face can be saved if the season is cancelled, both sides will look bad, and no amount of public relations can fix that...

True, but to the average idiot that makes up the public eye, if Gary cancels the season then its his fault.

IMO.
Public opinion has a ton to do with how these stoppages are resolved and if Bob for whatever reason chooses to shoulder his half of the blame publicly, I'm sure Gary would allow him the opportunity.

 

[417]

True, but to the average idiot that makes up the public eye, if Gary cancels the season then its his fault.

IMO.
Public opinion has a ton to do with how these stoppages are resolved and if Bob for whatever reason chooses to shoulder his half of the blame publicly, I'm sure Gary would allow him the opportunity.

True, but getting together to announce the cancellation of the season together will make it look even worse than it can, because that tells the "public eye" that they only thing they can agree on, and even meet face to face, is to cancel the season, then it will just look like both sides didin't want to really negotiate...

 

[Scoogs]

I would not be surprised to see Goodenow fired if the season is cancelled, either.

 

[hockeyfan33]

There's plenty of other sites where you can discuss the National Enquirer of hockey. This site prides itself on being better. If you don't like it, you're welcome to go to one of those others. During the season, we don't allow someone to claim a trade has gone down..with a messageboard source, even for the sake of conversation. This is no different. It has nothing to do with being "Gestapo," the rules are there for a reason, and you agreed to abide by them when you signed up for the board.

long before most of the posters today including you ever posted here, hockeysfuture used to be just one board and the topic was prospects. Because of the diversity of people and opinions, it grew into 2 boards (trade/rumours) and now into 100 boards. The freedom to voice opinions and bogus trade proposals/rumours is what caused this place to become so big, now you got people like you preventing the growth with these nazi concentration camp rules.
get lost

 

[Isles72]

People do know that NYC is about 10 minutes from NJ right? People are laughing at the media for posting NY but its pretty much the same location. Though im not supporting the media.

Joe Piscapo is from Jersey

btw , how is Theo doin up in Alberta

 

[Melanson]

I am firmly in the owner's corner. Here is an excerpt form Al Trautwig's article on MSGnetwork.com that sums up the state of the NHL:

The money landscape for the NHL has changed dramatically in just the last few years. What was once a $600 million deal with ESPN/ABC is now a 'share-what-we-make' deal with NBC. The same kind of deal that arena football has with the peacock. That's because the ratings the NHL gets is pretty much what the arena numbers are. Those are numbers the NHL players cannot ignore, and the best quarterbacks in that league make $150,000. That's thousand NOT million.

The NHL's teams used to be able to count on a definite number of millions of dollars every year from TV. Not now. Now, the NBC deal could turn a sweet profit, and the owners are not saying the players won't see that reward. What they want to know is that the players will get a piece of the action just like they do.


In my opinion the players are living in a dream world if they think that everything can stay status quo or that a 24% rollback will fix the problem. They seem to think that the overspending by the owners in the past is the main problem. It isn't. It's the shrinking ratings and lack of a real money-making TV contract....period.

I also find it highly hypocritical that players won't play with a cap in the NHL but will in the minors and in other countries while taking jobs from players who have been there. If you won't accept a cap in the NHL why accept one anywhere else? They seem to either;

a. Think that a cap is a necessity in the leagues they are now playing in. Which begs the question....why not in the NHL?
b. They really don't care about the cap situation and are just blindly following the orders of the NHLPA.
c. They are plain stupid and can't see the reality of the situation the league finds itself in.

Anyway you slice it I've never been more doubtful about there being hockey this season

I also am now, for the first time, concerned about whether or not there will ever be an NHL again

 

[Son of Steinbrenner]

I would not be surprised to see Goodenow fired if the season is cancelled, either.

My guess is if the players end up firing Goodenow it will be next January. I honestly think the players like what Goodenow has done for them (who can blame them) and trust what he has to say. It wouldn't surprise me if Bettman ends up leaving the NHL when this is settled.

I'm an admitted players guy. I don't think anybodys income should be capped and i don't care how much money these players make but this work stoppapge has gotten way out of hand. It can't be hard to slice up the pie to make both sides happy. Both sides should have had some sense of urgency in August not now. I hope by the weekend because i don't think i can take another week of this BS.

 

[Son of Steinbrenner]

I am firmly in the owner's corner. Here is an excerpt form Al Trautwig's article on MSGnetwork.com that sums up the state of the NHL:

The money landscape for the NHL has changed dramatically in just the last few years. What was once a $600 million deal with ESPN/ABC is now a 'share-what-we-make' deal with NBC. The same kind of deal that arena football has with the peacock. That's because the ratings the NHL gets is pretty much what the arena numbers are. Those are numbers the NHL players cannot ignore, and the best quarterbacks in that league make $150,000. That's thousand NOT million.

The NHL's teams used to be able to count on a definite number of millions of dollars every year from TV. Not now. Now, the NBC deal could turn a sweet profit, and the owners are not saying the players won't see that reward. What they want to know is that the players will get a piece of the action just like they do.


In my opinion the players are living in a dream world if they think that everything can stay status quo or that a 24% rollback will fix the problem. They seem to think that the overspending by the owners in the past is the main problem. It isn't. It's the shrinking ratings and lack of a real money-making TV contract....period.

I also find it highly hypocritical that players won't play with a cap in the NHL but will in the minors and in other countries while taking jobs from players who have been there. If you won't accept a cap in the NHL why accept one anywhere else? They seem to either;

a. Think that a cap is a necessity in the leagues they are now playing in. Which begs the question....why not in the NHL?
b. They really don't care about the cap situation and are just blindly following the orders of the NHLPA.
c. They are plain stupid and can't see the reality of the situation the league finds itself in.

Anyway you slice it I've never been more doubtful about there being hockey this season

I also am now, for the first time, concerned about whether or not there will ever be an NHL again

Who does al trautwig work for?