Speculation: Meet the Core! Wait . . . who we talkin' 'bout, now?

[Diaspora]

Who's in? Who's out? There's a ton of talent on the roster, and there's a ton more in the pipeline pushing for a way in.

Sabres for life -- Guys with so much talent and character that it's no longer possible to envision the team without them. We'll watch them into their declining years and hoist their names to the rafters:

Tuch, Dahlin, Cozens

Core pieces -- Here for many years. At some point in the far future they may move on because they can or they must, but worth a jersey investment cuz you won't be sorry:

Tage, Skinner, Sammy, Power

Maybes -- Here's the debate. Are these guys core?

Mitts -- Works like a demon. Finally getting some respect.

Quinn -- Looks like he can dominate. Will he reach his potential?

Krebs -- heart and soul guy, and possibly the rat that gets under other players' skins. Will he be satisfied with his role here?

JJP - Is he a unique core contributor, or is he just a really good hockey player?

Click to read more...

 

[Push Dr Tracksuit]

Skinner is only core because of contract. The lesson to take from Toronto is to not spend massive cap on wingers. If you play wing, either you’ve got something so special (Tuch) or you’re cheap (Tuch again). Other than that gimme centers and D.

You can pay your top centers and you can pay your top D. Those are the only players that have enough impact on the game to be worth north of 5-6 million a season. Stay away from middling players in 6-8 mil range, fill the roster with 4-6 mil players. After that you develop prospects to keep the cap in check, you hold resources to keep the pipeline pushing prospects to the parent roster. You thank guys for their great work and deal them before they become UFAs and flip the assets to make your runs for the cup.

Thomson, Tuck, Cozens, Dahlin, Power, Sammy

Everyone else needs to take a team deal or bridge them to UFA and trade them for another prospect or even better trade them for depth players signed to sweet heart contracts to free up cap space to spent elsewhere, like in net.

 

[Gabrielor]

"With the right additions, yes they can."

And not many additions, either.

The current core is:
Thompson, Cozens, Dahlin, Power

The outer core has:
Tuch, Skinner(contract),Sammy

Guy who could be core:
Mittelstadt, Quinn, Peterka, Levi, Krebs

We'll see:
Savoie, Kulich, Rosen, Ostlund

Not core, but could play key roles:
Rousek, Nadeau, Kozak, Novikov, Greenway, Jokiharju

Need d. Need g solidified. Need maybe 1 playmaker forward. That's it.

We're strong.

 

[TehDoak]

As of this moment, we have one elite, foundational piece, Dahlin. He's a top 10 d-man in the league currently, maybe top 5 already, and he still has upside.

After that, Power has the potential to be a second rock of our blue line, but he's not there yet. His floor is pretty high, he's going to be a good top 4 d-man regardless. The question is, will he be an elite #1 d-man or not.

Thompson, Cozens make a good 1-2 center combo, though, I think Thompson's lack of defensive acumen is a limiting factor, especially if we transition away from the freewheeling offensive system. The hope is Thompson can at least get to passable in his own zone to the point he's not a total liability.

Skinner, like Thompson, is reliant on high o-zone starts. He has shown that his performance can swing wildly season to season. It's smart for the team to maximize his strengths as he's elite around the opposition net. Like Thompson, his lack of a complete game will limit his effectiveness long term.

Tuch too has benefitted to being fed O-zone starts and lack of real defensive accountability. Unlike Thompson and Skinner, I feel there is some defensive upside there. He played well inside of Vegas's system and can be a two way cog if we use him that way. His offensive numbers will drop, sure, but I think his overall impacts can get better.

If we can develop Cozens two way game, it won't be long until his TOI surpasses Thompsons due to PK time and extra defensive zone starts. He's shown he can be an offensive center, but his current duty of carrying two 1st year NHLers who can't find the defensive zone really bogs him down. I'd like to see him paired with Tuch next year and be used as a two way, matchup line. Maybe paired with Mittelstadt's board work on the opposite wing, we could even have a .....gasp....line that can play in all 3 zones.

Overall, we have a lot of good pieces, but only one true building block, with the potential of others. Core is a weird term, as Dahlin is my only absolute untouchable. Power is probably right behind him. After that, it's just varying degrees of expensive. For example, I'm not interested in trading Thompson....but if one of McDavid or Draisaitl becomes available? Giddy up.

 

[WhereAreTheCookies]

Skinner is only core because of contract. The lesson to take from Toronto is to not spend massive cap on wingers. If you play wing, either you’ve got something so special (Tuch) or you’re cheap (Tuch again). Other than that gimme centers and D.

You can pay your top centers and you can pay your top D. Those are the only players that have enough impact on the game to be worth north of 5-6 million a season. Stay away from middling players in 6-8 mil range, fill the roster with 4-6 mil players. After that you develop prospects to keep the cap in check, you hold resources to keep the pipeline pushing prospects to the parent roster. You thank guys for their great work and deal them before they become UFAs and flip the assets to make your runs for the cup.

Thomson, Tuck, Cozens, Dahlin, Power, Sammy

Everyone else needs to take a team deal or bridge them to UFA and trade them for another prospect or even better trade them for depth players signed to sweet heart contracts to free up cap space to spent elsewhere, like in net.

I'd say in most cases that's true, but there are some wingers that are well worth the money they are paid.

Tkachuk for example is a winger who absolutely makes the Panthers better and is well worth the contract they gave him. Rantanen, Kucherov, Kane (in his prime), Stone, Kaprizov, and a number of others are wingers who are not easily replaced and elevate their teams and linemates.

Also it's worth noting that 2 of the Leafs big 3 contracts are actually centers not wingers, and Nylander was also playing at center when he signed his deal.

 

[EichHart]

We scored the 3rd most goals in the NHL last year, of course this core is on the cusp of something special. We have one of if not the deepest prospect pools in the league, tons of cap space, and our entire team is young and getting better. It's going to be a fun next decade.

 

[TheMistyStranger]

I don't think they need to add Core pieces; they need to swap out some regulars / depth players. The top 3 defense is set. The top 2 centers are set. At least 2 of the top 4 wingers are set. That's a 7 piece core, and you can't have a "core" group much bigger than that anyway.

I'd say to look at Tampa as an example of sustainable success. They constantly shuffle peripheral players out, but how big is their core? I'd say Stamkos, Kuch, Cirelli, Point up front, Hedman, Serg, and Cernak on the back, and Vasi in net. That's 8 guys. Everyone else on that team is "temporary", in that they can be shuffled in or out and the team is still successful. The difference is that Tampa has a core goalie, and their defense is a hell of a lot older and more experienced than Buffalo's. Give it time, and tinker on the outside of the roster.

 

[Jim Bob]

This core needs three things:

- Time to mature as some core guys (Power, Quinn, Peterka, Cozens, Samuelsson, etc.) still have room to grow.
- Some right pieces added to the mix (G, 1 more top 4 D, right mix of bottom 6 forwards, depth)
- Luck. It is really, really hard to win the Cup. And it takes various kinds of luck (injury, puck, calls, etc) at the right time to win it all.

 

[Duddy]

Core: Dahlin, Power, Tage, Cozens and Levi.

Those are the guys you keep no matter what and build around.

 

[Diaspora]

Core: Dahlin, Power, Tage, Cozens and Levi.

Those are the guys you keep no matter what and build around.

Levi has only played seven games. I can't call him part of the core.

 

[WiHockeyGuy]

Levi has only played seven games. I can't call him part of the core.

Levi is absolutely part of the core going forward. Both by performance and by the GMs glowing opinion of him.

 

[Diaspora]

As of this moment, we have one elite, foundational piece, Dahlin. He's a top 10 d-man in the league currently, maybe top 5 already, and he still has upside.

After that, Power has the potential to be a second rock of our blue line, but he's not there yet. His floor is pretty high, he's going to be a good top 4 d-man regardless. The question is, will he be an elite #1 d-man or not.

Thompson, Cozens make a good 1-2 center combo, though, I think Thompson's lack of defensive acumen is a limiting factor, especially if we transition away from the freewheeling offensive system. The hope is Thompson can at least get to passable in his own zone to the point he's not a total liability.

Skinner, like Thompson, is reliant on high o-zone starts. He has shown that his performance can swing wildly season to season. It's smart for the team to maximize his strengths as he's elite around the opposition net. Like Thompson, his lack of a complete game will limit his effectiveness long term.

Tuch too has benefitted to being fed O-zone starts and lack of real defensive accountability. Unlike Thompson and Skinner, I feel there is some defensive upside there. He played well inside of Vegas's system and can be a two way cog if we use him that way. His offensive numbers will drop, sure, but I think his overall impacts can get better.

If we can develop Cozens two way game, it won't be long until his TOI surpasses Thompsons due to PK time and extra defensive zone starts. He's shown he can be an offensive center, but his current duty of carrying two 1st year NHLers who can't find the defensive zone really bogs him down. I'd like to see him paired with Tuch next year and be used as a two way, matchup line. Maybe paired with Mittelstadt's board work on the opposite wing, we could even have a .....gasp....line that can play in all 3 zones.

Overall, we have a lot of good pieces, but only one true building block, with the potential of others. Core is a weird term, as Dahlin is my only absolute untouchable. Power is probably right behind him. After that, it's just varying degrees of expensive. For example, I'm not interested in trading Thompson....but if one of McDavid or Draisaitl becomes available? Giddy up.

Your not wrong for the most part.

The core doesn't have to exclusively be elite players. And players move in and out of the core as time goes by.

The core is the set of players who are around long-term that establish the team's identity. You won't succeed without high talent and skill. But a champion core must have the character to apply that talent time and time again, through pain and adversity, under pressure, and in the face of equal talent and effort in resistance.

Honestly, I think it's that question that makes the Stanley Cup winners unique in sports. The grind of the NHL playoffs is not matched by anything else.

 

[TageGod]

Who's in? Who's out? There's a ton of talent on the roster, and there's a ton more in the pipeline pushing for a way in.

Sabres for life -- Guys with so much talent and character that it's no longer possible to envision the team without them. We'll watch them into their declining years and hoist their names to the rafters:

Tuch, Dahlin, Cozens

Core pieces -- Here for many years. At some point in the far future they may move on because they can or they must, but worth a jersey investment cuz you won't be sorry:

Tage, Skinner, Sammy, Power

Maybes -- Here's the debate. Are these guys core?

Mitts -- Works like a demon. Finally getting some respect.

Quinn -- Looks like he can dominate. Will he reach his potential?

Krebs -- heart and soul guy, and possibly the rat that gets under other players' skins. Will he be satisfied with his role here?

JJP - Is he a unique core contributor, or is he just a really good hockey player?

Fun exercise. Going to ignore the sabre for life part though.

Core: Tuch, Tage, Cozens, Dahlin, Cobra, Power, Levi
Short term Core: Mitts, Skinner
Maybe: JJP, Quinn, UPL(still young)
Future Core additions: Savoie, Kulich, top 4D acquired with 3+ term
No: Krebs, VO, Greenway, and fourth liners brought in or currently without contract.

 

[dortt]

Nothing wrong with the skinner contract.

We sre still letting ralphus cloud our judgement

 

[TheBarnIsElectric]

I voted with the right additions, they can, but if we're being honest, we can't really know until they are put to the test.

Toronto would have thought they had the core pieces in place years ago, but look how that's turned out. Toronto fans love their core pieces, but they now know it doesn't work as a whole.

It's not just talent level that makes the difference, it's grit, personalities, play styles, etc. and how all that fits together and works under pressure. The only part of that I'm sure of at this point is the talent, but based on that alone, it looks good.

 

[Push Dr Tracksuit]

Nothing wrong with the skinner contract.

We sre still letting ralphus cloud our judgement

There’s a lot of things wrong with paying wingers that much. Especially wingers with games as limited Skinner’s.

 

[dortt]

There’s a lot of things wrong with paying wingers that much. Especially wingers with games as limited Skinner’s.

Not when they produce at > ppg

 

[Ace]

The problems with Skinners‘ contract are that it’s two years too long. The money doesn’t matter until then. In fact, the last couple years they’ve needed him to make that much because there’s a floor.

 

[Matt Ress]

How is anyone not putting Tuch in the core? He's probably the most effectively rounded player and a Sabre for life. Dude will be in the booth or behind the bench when he hangs up the skates.

 

[TheBarnIsElectric]

I think the bigger question is can these guys actually grow playoff beards? Tage, Cozens, Quinn, JJ, Skinner, Dahlin, Power. I don't know. I really don't...

 

[Diaspora]

I think the bigger question is can these guys actually grow playoff beards? Tage, Cozens, Quinn, JJ, Skinner, Dahlin, Power. I don't know. I really don't...

Without a beard, a high stick might actually draw blood. The refs then might actually be embarrassed into calling a penalty.

Advantage youts.

 

[markpenske]

I'd move Quinn into the "core".
100%

 

[Irie]

There’s a lot of things wrong with paying wingers that much. Especially wingers with games as limited Skinner’s.

Skinner is overpaid, of that there is no doubt, but he is not nearly as overpaid as the general consensus around the league seems to think.

Skinner currently is a PPG winger who is also a really good pest who is one of the better players in the league at drawing penalties. The skill of creating powerplays wins games and is often under-valued.

This year Skinner was probably less than 2M overpaid, which is chump change for a team hovering near the cap floor. As the cap rises and if he keeps up his level of play anywhere near to what it was this past season, his contract won't really be bad value.

 

[KiwiGriff]

Skinner is overpaid, of that there is no doubt, but he is not nearly as overpaid as the general consensus around the league seems to think.

Skinner currently is a PPG winger who is also a really good pest who is one of the better players in the league at drawing penalties. The skill of creating powerplays wins games and is often under-valued.

This year Skinner was probably less than 2M overpaid, which is chump change for a team hovering near the cap floor. As the cap rises and if he keeps up his level of play anywhere near to what it was this past season, his contract won't really be bad value.

The Krueger years ruined his rep. If you asked a team how much they’d pay for a PPG top line winger that loves playing, brings positivity and personality to the team and draws penalties … these days I’d suspect the bids would start with 8 per year.

We all know/suspect Botterill got fleeced on the contract and could have got him for less … but for the last two seasons he has performance has been in the ballpark of his annual cost.

I like Skinner.

As for the makeup of this team. I don’t know. I have my doubts. I know we are young, with a great prospect pool and the team should be better next season but … I can’t help but feel that we are lacking P60 sandpaper. This team doesn’t make it as it currently is, it needs to be bolstered and that’s the tricky balance of giving up potential in prospects vs (mostly) known quantities in established FAs. I’d love a third line that people fear and a couple of defenseman for the bottom four that make you feel like to get to the goal it is like pushing through a crowd to get on a Japanese subway train … but with more pain.

 

[Irie]

The Krueger years ruined his rep. If you asked a team how much they’d pay for a PPG top line winger that loves playing, brings positivity and personality to the team and draws penalties … these days I’d suspect the bids would start with 8 per year.

We all know/suspect Botterill got fleeced on the contract and could have got him for less … but for the last two seasons he has performance has been in the ballpark of his annual cost.

I like Skinner.

As for the makeup of this team. I don’t know. I have my doubts. I know we are young, with a great prospect pool and the team should be better next season but … I can’t help but feel that we are lacking P60 sandpaper. This team doesn’t make it as it currently is, it needs to be bolstered and that’s the tricky balance of giving up potential in prospects vs (mostly) known quantities in established FAs. I’d love a third line that people fear and a couple of defenseman for the bottom four that make you feel like to get to the goal it is like pushing through a crowd to get on a Japanese subway train … but with more pain.

Totally agree.

They are going to need a lot more fight out of Peterka and Quinn if either of those two are going to be recognized as core players, regardless of their scoring.

An easier fix to address the problem would be replacing the current grit (Girgs and Okposo) with actual grit.

I love Gus and Kyle, and they both can take a beating and give you solid defensive efforts, but both are too nice to put any fear into opposing teams to persuade them from not taking liberties with the Sabres stars and young kids.

If Adams is planning on adding Savoie, Rozen, Kulich and Ostlund to the mix in the next 2-3 years, this is going to be an even larger weakness. It's hard to win,even in the regular season, when your forward ranks are getting steamrolled ever other shift.