Confirmed with Link: Mazur signs ELC - will finish season in GR

[dekelikekocur]

Not every player needs a season in GR. Kasper I'd say is relatively likely to make the NHL roster. Mazur is more of a darkhorse but he's on a trajectory that indicates he could be a quick learner who doesn't need a lot of AHL seasoning.

I'm of the mindset that Mazur plays to the level of his linemates/competition. His style seems pretty adaptable to whatever ice surface he's on.

 

[SantosHalper]

Not every player needs a season in GR. Kasper I'd say is relatively likely to make the NHL roster. Mazur is more of a darkhorse but he's on a trajectory that indicates he could be a quick learner who doesn't need a lot of AHL seasoning.

No but Yzerman thinks so. Seider started in GR, which was no surprise. Raymond was planned to start in GR but Vrana's injury opened the way. Even if Vrana would have been healthy, imo Raymond would have easily slotted behind him. Majority of the board had Edvinsson in the 3rd pair before this season and he started in GR. Edvinsson could have easily played the same role as Oesterle and Hagg.

Now even if Yzerman acquires top-6 center and a winger, both Kasper & Mazur would fit in the roster but Yzerman thinks differently. Most likely Yzerman acquires players in the summer and if everybody healthy in the top-9, Kasper and Mazur starts in GR nd i think the role requirement for Kasper is top-6. Kasper and Mazur could easily play the same role as Veleno and Zadina.

 

[Pavels Dog]

No but Yzerman thinks so. Seider started in GR, which was no surprise. Raymond was planned to start in GR but Vrana's injury opened the way.

None of that explains why Kasper's timeline would be slower than Raymond's or why Mazur can't make the NHL in his d+3. That wouldn't go against Yzerman's M.O at all.

 

[SantosHalper]

None of that explains why Kasper's timeline would be slower than Raymond's or why Mazur can't make the NHL in his d+3. That wouldn't go against Yzerman's M.O at all.

Ain't the timeline same?
Ray drafted in 2020, D+1 in Sweden, D+2 AHL but thanks to Vrana's injury NHL.
Kasper drafted in 2022, D+1 in Sweden, D+2 AHL.

Yzerman has repeated that meaninful minutes mantra so many times, i would believe that it would be clear for everyone now. Tie goes to the veteran is still in play and i would find it hard to believe that Yzerman wouldn't acquire any players in the summer.

Yzerman made Killorn start in AHL as well.

 

[norrisnick]

Ain't the timeline same?
Ray drafted in 2020, D+1 in Sweden, D+2 AHL but thanks to Vrana's injury NHL.
Kasper drafted in 2022, D+1 in Sweden, D+2 AHL.

Yzerman has repeated that meaninful minutes mantra so many times, i would believe that it would be clear for everyone now. Tie goes to the veteran is still in play and i would find it hard to believe that Yzerman wouldn't acquire any players in the summer.

Yzerman made Killorn start in AHL as well.

Guess what? Vrana won't make the opening night roster this season either.

And there's a few reasons for the AHL start for Killorn.

1. Tampa was trash in '11-'12 and were well out of the playoffs.
2. Norfolk was a wagon and they won the Calder Cup after Killorn's senior season ended, so he got some valuable playoff experience.
3. There was a work stoppage at the beginning of the following season, as soon as that ended he was in the NHL.

Change those and he doesn't see the AHL.

 

[SantosHalper]

Guess what? Vrana won't make the opening night roster this season either.

And there's a few reasons for the AHL start for Killorn.

1. Tampa was trash in '11-'12 and were well out of the playoffs.
2. Norfolk was a wagon and they won the Calder Cup after Killorn's senior season ended, so he got some valuable playoff experience.
3. There was a work stoppage at the beginning of the following season, as soon as that ended he was in the NHL.

Change those and he doesn't see the AHL.

Why exactly you keep mentioning that Bertuzzi and now Vrana won't be part of next years team? Or are you suggesting that Yzerman won't acquire any players this summer?

Back then Killorn was also a year older than Mazur is now.

 

[norrisnick]

Why exactly you keep mentioning that Bertuzzi and now Vrana won't be part of next years team? Or are you suggesting that Yzerman won't acquire any players this summer?

Back then Killorn was also a year older than Mazur is now.

Yzerman has hinted at that, yes. There aren't any top line forwards out there to be had this year anyway barring trade.

 

[Detroit Knights]

Ain't the timeline same?
Ray drafted in 2020, D+1 in Sweden, D+2 AHL but thanks to Vrana's injury NHL.
Kasper drafted in 2022, D+1 in Sweden, D+2 AHL.

Yzerman has repeated that meaninful minutes mantra so many times, i would believe that it would be clear for everyone now. Tie goes to the veteran is still in play and i would find it hard to believe that Yzerman wouldn't acquire any players in the summer.

Yzerman made Killorn start in AHL as well.

I just don't see how Kasper (barring setbacks obviously) wouldn't start in NHL. When he played for that game, he was noticeable in good ways: agitating, scoring chances, etc.

 

[SantosHalper]

Yzerman has hinted at that, yes. There aren't any top line forwards out there to be had this year anyway barring trade.

We know more later.

I just don't see how Kasper (barring setbacks obviously) wouldn't start in NHL. When he played for that game, he was noticeable in good ways: agitating, scoring chances, etc.

Top-9 role at least + special teams role is what Kasper needs have in order to start the season in NHL. If Yzerman acquires a top-9 center, that seals the deal that Kasper starts in AHL. Winger is coming to Detroit, one way or the other.

 

[Frk It]

I just don't see how ____ wouldn't start in NHL.

This gets said on here every year about someone who ends up not starting in the NHL.

 

[norrisnick]

We know more later.

Top-9 role at least + special teams role is what Kasper needs have in order to start the season in NHL. If Yzerman acquires a top-9 center, that seals the deal that Kasper starts in AHL. Winger is coming to Detroit, one way or the other.

Or he plays with Copp on his wing like he did during his cup of coffee.

This gets said on here every year about someone who ends up not starting in the NHL.

And almost every year we get proven right and the coaching staff wrong.

See Berggren, Jonatan.

 

[SantosHalper]

Or he plays with Copp on his wing like he did during his cup of coffee.

Unlikely. It would be too late in December to start looking for a top-9 players if Kasper can't handle the role.

 

[norrisnick]

Unlikely. It would be too late in December to start looking for a top-9 players if Kasper can't handle the role.

If he can't handle top 9 we're f***ed anyway.

 

[Detroit Knights]

We know more later.

Top-9 role at least + special teams role is what Kasper needs have in order to start the season in NHL. If Yzerman acquires a top-9 center, that seals the deal that Kasper starts in AHL. Winger is coming to Detroit, one way or the other.

Why wouldn't he be able to start on 2nd/3rd line center with copp on the wing? Then they can interchange when needed as Lalonde was trying to do that when he was in the lineup.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Ain't the timeline same?
Ray drafted in 2020, D+1 in Sweden, D+2 AHL but thanks to Vrana's injury NHL.
Kasper drafted in 2022, D+1 in Sweden, D+2 AHL.

Yzerman has repeated that meaninful minutes mantra so many times, i would believe that it would be clear for everyone now. Tie goes to the veteran is still in play and i would find it hard to believe that Yzerman wouldn't acquire any players in the summer.

Yzerman made Killorn start in AHL as well.

That’s a bit dismissive of Raymond. He was a Calder contender and arguably our 2nd best forward that year. He wasn’t just gifted the NHL job.

Kasper will have to earn it but odds are they give him every opportunity to do so.

 

[SantosHalper]

Why wouldn't he be able to start on 2nd/3rd line center with copp on the wing? Then they can interchange when needed as Lalonde was trying to do that when he was in the lineup.

Because Yzerman will plug the holes, he's not going to give spots to Kasper & Mazur. Red Wings ain't tanking anymore, they are going to fight for playoff spot.

Look at Söderblom, he looked good at camp but after 20 games it became clear he's not ready yet. There's a risk that same could happen to Kasper & Mazur, then both go to GR and Red Wings are left with a massive hole in the middle and/or on the wing. Where the replacement can be found, when at least 28-30 teams are fighting for the points?

Holes need to be plugged now and if Kasper & Mazur can outplay vets from the top-6 that's great, it gives us more depth and we get rid off extra weight.

NHL is still marathon, not a sprint. Raymond looked good the first 50-60 games and gassed out the last 20 games. Same thing happened to Berggren, looked good for 50 games and gassed out 20 games. Kasper looked gassed out the 10-15 games in Rögle this season, that injury might have been a factor for sure. Second risk by just giving role, would be this. I have no doubt that Kasper & Mazur could look good for 50-60 games but what about after that, the most crucial part of the season? There is very strong chance that Kasper & Mazur could be gassed out by then. How are theygoing to help the team then ? If they are just trying to survive?

If the plugs are signed, there won't be this many question. Red Wings get's to have deep enough team to fight for a playoff spot, injuries won't matter that much when we have have Kasper, Mazur, Söderblom(top-9), Czarnik, Luff, Hirose(4th line) to plug those holes when needed.

At the same time in GR those call ups would mean increase of a role and responsibility to Lombardi, Hanas, Doucet etc.

It's a win-win situation to start Kasper and Mazur in GR.

That’s a bit dismissive of Raymond. He was a Calder contender and arguably our 2nd best forward that year. He wasn’t just gifted the NHL job.

Wel i did cut some corners with that statement but Vrana's injury opened role for Raymond and he capitalized immediately. Injuries are the way for Kasper and Mazur to break in to the NHL next season.

 

[norrisnick]

Because Yzerman will plug the holes, he's not going to give spots to Kasper & Mazur. Red Wings ain't tanking anymore, they are going to fight for playoff spot.

Look at Söderblom, he looked good at camp but after 20 games it became clear he's not ready yet. There's a risk that same could happen to Kasper & Mazur, then both go to GR and Red Wings are left with a massive hole in the middle and/or on the wing. Where the replacement can be found, when at least 28-30 teams are fighting for the points?

Holes need to be plugged now and if Kasper & Mazur can outplay vets from the top-6 that's great, it gives us more depth and we get rid off extra weight.

NHL is still marathon, not a sprint. Raymond looked good the first 50-60 games and gassed out the last 20 games. Same thing happened to Berggren, looked good for 50 games and gassed out 20 games. Kasper looked gassed out the 10-15 games in Rögle this season, that injury might have been a factor for sure. Second risk by just giving role, would be this. I have no doubt that Kasper & Mazur could look good for 50-60 games but what about after that, the most crucial part of the season? There is very strong chance that Kasper & Mazur could be gassed out by then. How are theygoing to help the team then ? If they are just trying to survive?

If the plugs are signed, there won't be this many question. Red Wings get's to have deep enough team to fight for a playoff spot, injuries won't matter that much when we have have Kasper, Mazur, Söderblom(top-9), Czarnik, Luff, Hirose(4th line) to plug those holes when needed.

At the same time in GR those call ups would mean increase of a role and responsibility to Lombardi, Hanas, Doucet etc.

It's a win-win situation to start Kasper and Mazur in GR.

Wel i did cut some corners with that statement but Vrana's injury opened role for Raymond and he capitalized immediately. Injuries are the way for Kasper and Mazur to break in to the NHL next season.

Not at all. Because you're not accounting for the scenario that the "plugs" signed are exactly that, plugs and won't be replaced with kids barring an injury.

You cite Soderblom, but could just as easily look at the f*** up with Berggren. He very obviously was ready in training camp. Got sent down. Got trucked by a scrub in the AHL and was out a few weeks with a head injury. Wings get decimated up top and he finally gets called up after what... 3 other Griffins got the call? And looked perfectly fine like he did in training camp.

What "win" was there at the start of the season?

Just cut out the middle man of dead weight vets and/or injuries and give the kids a bigger role on both teams from the start. There's always warm bodies to be had all season long. See Tolvanen, Eeli.

 

[SantosHalper]

You cite Soderblom, but could just as easily look at the f*** up with Berggren. He very obviously was ready in training camp. Got sent down. Got trucked by a scrub in the AHL and was out a few weeks with a head injury. Wings get decimated up top and he finally gets called up after what... 3 other Griffins got the call? And looked perfectly fine like he did in training camp.

And Yzerman did exactly what i just said, he started Berggren in GR. When injuries started to pile up, Berggren got called up and immediately helped the team. For the first 50 games at least.

Berggren was that depth this year and Kasper & Mazur will that depth next year.

Just cut out the middle man of dead weight vets and/or injuries and give the kids a bigger role on both teams from the start. There's always warm bodies to be had all season long. See Tolvanen, Eeli.

Not a single GM relies that players can be found all season long.
See Perron, David
See Copp, Andrew
See Kubalik, Dominik
See Määttä, Olli
See Chiarot, Ben
See Hagg, Robert
See Pysyk, Mark

and what warm bodies did Detroit get during this season?
See Chiasson, Alex
See Hellberg, Magnus

And GIVE the bigger role to kids? When was the last time any kid was GIVEN spot in Detroit? Not in Yzerman's MO, every role is earned and tie still goes to the veteran. Big roles can be given in AHL because nobody wants to stay there, everyone wants to be in the NHL. So they work their ass off to get in, then they work their ass off to stay in. If there is no threat or inner competition for spots, players becomes lazy and completely destroys the competitiveness. Not to even mention the lack of depth, who we are going to call then? When there is injuries in the top-6, Czarnik? L'Esperanca? Spezia? Shine? or one of the not NHL ready kids?

 

[norrisnick]

And Yzerman did exactly what i just said, he started Berggren in GR. When injuries started to pile up, Berggren got called up and immediately helped the team. For the first 50 games at least.

Berggren was that depth this year and Kasper & Mazur will that depth next year.

Not a single GM relies that players can be found all season long.
See Perron, David
See Copp, Andrew
See Kubalik, Dominik
See Määttä, Olli
See Chiarot, Ben
See Hagg, Robert
See Pysyk, Mark

and what warm bodies did Detroit get during this season?
See Chiasson, Alex
See Hellberg, Magnus

And GIVE the bigger role to kids? When was the last time any kid was GIVEN spot in Detroit? Not in Yzerman's MO, every role is earned and tie still goes to the veteran. Big roles can be given in AHL because nobody wants to stay there, everyone wants to be in the NHL. So they work their ass off to get in, then they work their ass off to stay in. If there is no threat or inner competition for spots, players becomes lazy and completely destroys the competitiveness. Not to even mention the lack of depth, who we are going to call then? When there is injuries in the top-6, Czarnik? L'Esperanca? Spezia? Shine? or one of the not NHL ready kids?

Roles given due to injuries aren't earned in the AHL. They are simply given. Earning happens in the NHL. Which doesn't happen if no one gets hurt.

Again, mistakes being made pretty continuously isn't a good reason to keep making them.

 

[SantosHalper]

Roles given due to injuries aren't earned in the AHL. They are simply given. Earning happens in the NHL. Which doesn't happen if no one gets hurt.

Again, mistakes being made pretty continuously isn't a good reason to keep making them.

Injuries will happen, that part of the game will never go away.

Call up is earned at the camp and in AHL. In the camp player first proves that he is capable to play in that specific role what the org wants him to play. Just like Berggren and Raymond before, they proved themself at the camp first, then an injury happened and Ray got to start immediately in the NHL. Berggren had to wait little longer but again injuries opened the way. Neither was handed the role or call up, they had to work it and then capitalize the chance to stay in NHL.

What mistakes? Only mistake here would be the Buffalo/Edmonton route, where the spots were handed. And surprise, some how it just didn't work.

Again, if Kasper & Mazur were given top-6 roles for next year and the typical injury wave arrives. Who are the call ups then? Czarnik as 2C? Hirose as 1W? or some other career AHL players. Or perhaps Zadina in the 1st line?

 

[norrisnick]

Injuries will happen, that part of the game will never go away.

Call up is earned at the camp and in AHL. In the camp player first proves that he is capable to play in that specific role what the org wants him to play. Just like Berggren and Raymond before, they proved themself at the camp first, then an injury happened and Ray got to start immediately in the NHL. Berggren had to wait little longer but again injuries opened the way. Neither was handed the role or call up, they had to work it and then capitalize the chance to stay in NHL.

What mistakes? Only mistake here would be the Buffalo/Edmonton route, where the spots were handed. And surprise, some how it just didn't work.

Again, if Kasper & Mazur were given top-6 roles for next year and the typical injury wave arrives. Who are the call ups then? Czarnik as 2C? Hirose as 1W? or some other career AHL players. Or perhaps Zadina in the 1st line?

What role did Erne earn in camp? Oesterle?

Your argument falls on its face when you don't acknowledge that guys that were there before are simply given the roles that the kids apparently have to earn.

There shouldn't be different pathways dependent solely on age.

 

[RabidBadger]

I came here to talk about Carter Mazur. Am I in the right thread?

 

[WaW]

Rasumussen/Copp/Fabbri shouldn't be playing 4C, unless Stevie signs so many wingers that they're bumped down from their middle 6 roles. I don't see that happening. Would be great to roll 4 lines like the Kraken, but I don't see Stevie throwing money at free agents this summer aside from RHD.

Czarnik is an AHLer. Kasper will be in GR most of the season until trades or injuries happen. Kasper and Mazur haven't even played a season in GR and you want them on the roster. Your arguments will be a lot more valid NEXT summer. I've already thrown in the towel for this coming season, lol. The kids won't be ready, Mo/Ed/DBoss (gotta give him credit for hanging in there) will be the only players to watch next season. Like it or lump it, we get another season of Joey and Bustina.

Mazur has been exactly on par with Matthew Knies for the last 3 years. They were USHL teammates and had virtually identical numbers despite Knies being the 1LW and Mazur being the 2LW in the 20-21 season. We saw how good Knies was in the playoffs for the Leafs. If we think he's NHL ready, then so is Mazur.

 

[SantosHalper]

What role did Erne earn in camp? Oesterle?

Your argument falls on its face when you don't acknowledge that guys that were there before are simply given the roles that the kids apparently have to earn.

There shouldn't be different pathways dependent solely on age.

Yeah Erne and Oesterle perfect comparisons to Kasper & Mazur, same roles, same positions......

Come on man.

Erne was acquired to play in the 4th line and to see if he can rise up to be more than that, since he was young. Erne had 114 NHL games under his belt when he was acquired and he already served his time in AHL, 150 games over there. Kasper was drafted to become top-6 center.

Oesterle had 4 years in NHL and 3 years AHL before he was signed to be 6/7D.

Both counts as vets/plugs/warm bodies both are proven small role players in NHL. Kasper & Mazur are not fighting against them, they are fighting against Perron, Copp, Kubalik, Fabbri and upcoming winger/center.

My argument is in line what Yzerman has done ever since became a GM.

 

[norrisnick]

Yeah Erne and Oesterle perfect comparisons to Kasper & Mazur, same roles, same positions......

Come on man.

Erne was acquired to play in the 4th line and to see if he can rise up to be more than that, since he was young. Erne had 114 NHL games under his belt when he was acquired and he already served his time in AHL, 150 games over there. Kasper was drafted to become top-6 center.

Oesterle had 4 years in NHL and 3 years AHL before he was signed to be 6/7D.

Both counts as vets/plugs/warm bodies both are proven small role players in NHL. Kasper & Mazur are not fighting against them, they are fighting against Perron, Copp, Kubalik, Fabbri and upcoming winger/center.

My argument is in line what Yzerman has done ever since became a GM.

That's cool. It's still wrong. "Yzerman does it!" is not a magic "I win the argument!" button.