Matthews,Marner,Nylander Vs Eichel,Dahlin,Mittelstadt for the future?

[Halla]

It's more about semantics than anything. Eichel has played in a dumpster fire team and still putting up points. As I said, Matthews is better but I'll withold the superlatives for now.

so by the same logic laine is slightly better than keller right?

 

[hockeyguy1967]

Leafs trio not close. Middlestadt should not be here.

 

[Royal Thunder]

They will though.

Suure just like the last 50 years right

 

[nobody]

Suure just like the last 50 years right

You guys have just as many cups in the last 50 years!

I think this poll is a little crazy. You're comparing Eichel and two prospects who've combined for a total of 6 games versus 3 players who have put up back to back 60+ point seasons in the NHL in their first 2 (2+ for Willie) years? Really?

Also, if you're worth your weight in shit in the NHL, you put up points. It doesn't matter how good or bad your team may be. Eichel is a fantastic player but you can't make the excuse that he plays with shitty players when these same players were supposedly better than the trash the Leafs were about to trot out two years ago. Matthews put up PPG with two sophomores. He put up 40+ G and 69 P with all rookies on his line. Eichel has vets and a bunch of excuses.

 

[lifelonghockeyfan]

Seen many posts where folks say the Leafs are going to win the Cup within a year because they can't afford to their "young three." By that logic the Sabres will have to win the Cup within three years before Dahlin hits his RFA contract.

I don't agree with this false logic...just saying.

 

[Snippit]

You guys have just as many cups in the last 50 years!

I think this poll is a little crazy. You're comparing Eichel and two prospects who've combined for a total of 6 games versus 3 players who have put up back to back 60+ point seasons in the NHL in their first 2 (2+ for Willie) years? Really?

Also, if you're worth your weight in **** in the NHL, you put up points. It doesn't matter how good or bad your team may be. Eichel is a fantastic player but you can't make the excuse that he plays with ****ty players when these same players were supposedly better than the trash the Leafs were about to trot out two years ago. Matthews put up PPG with two sophomores. He put up 40+ G and 69 P with all rookies on his line. Eichel has vets and a bunch of excuses.

This wins most idiotic post of the week. I can't believe you actually typed this and didn't immediately realize it was moronic.

How does fan speculation from years ago impact player evaluations today? Obviously Matthews has better players around him.

"Eichel has vets" - yeah Moulson and Pominville lmfao. The Sabres are a literal dumpster fire with poor coaching and Eichel still manages to produce at an impressive rate.

Did I mention again how bad this post was?

 

[Harhis]

How can you actually vote Buffalo when Dahlin and Middlestadt have played a combined SIX NHL games?

You can specualte all you want just how good either will be but at this point its crazy to take the Buffalo side when two of the three guys havent proven a damn thing in the league.

Would you trade Marner for 1st overall this years draft? If yes, there you go, you have your answer. [mod]

 

[Plural]

so by the same logic laine is slightly better than keller right?

I don't think the difference between Laine and Keller is as small as it is between Eichel and Matthews. I also believe that I'm not alone in thinking this. I'm sure you also understand the intellectual dishonesty in your example.

The reason why I used the word slightly (admittedly I could have phrased is in several other ways too, "clearly better start to their careers" could have been one which you probably would have agreed with me more) is because I think Eichel and Matthews are both still developing. I believe Matthews will continue to be better but the raw potential in them, for me at least, seems to be somewhat on the same tier. How much of that potential they can tap is up for the future to show. Eichel has some tools that Matthews doesn't which can potentially close the gap Auston has so far torn between them.

If you were to do a poll asking which one had the better start to their careers the answer would unanimously be Matthews. If you were to ask which one has more potential the answers would most likely have a lot of fluctuation and the difference between the two options would be much smaller. I'm not really going to harp on anyone thinking that Matthews is clearly better since he's got the record to show for it. But having watched both players quite a bit I don't think the product on the ice is that much better with Matthews that I wouldn't leave some amount of interpretation open for the beholder.

Let me put it this way:
I expect Matthews to once again have better offensive and overall season than Eichel. But I wouldn't be shocked if Eichel outplays Matthews the next season. I'm just thinking it probably won't happen. Hence the word "slightly".

 

[Plural]

How can you actually vote Buffalo when Dahlin and Middlestadt have played a combined SIX NHL games?

You can specualte all you want just how good either will be but at this point its crazy to take the Buffalo side when two of the three guys havent proven a damn thing in the league.

Dahlin does seem like a sure fire thing though. I usually don't give prospect value over proven NHL players but there are exceptions. I think Dahlin is one of those exceptions.

 

[Critical13]

The Dahlin hype is insane. I really hope the dude is Bobby Orr within 3 years, because the expectations are the highest I've seen in a while. I don't count McDavid because there was no chance of him busting.

 

[Morgs]

I would not trade our three for Buffalo's three.

 

[Plural]

The Dahlin hype is insane. I really hope the dude is Bobby Orr within 3 years, because the expectations are the highest I've seen in a while. I don't count McDavid because there was no chance of him busting.

I don't think it's significantly higher than hype was with Matthews for example. I think Dahlin and Matthews are similar tier prospects and the hype is also comparable.

 

[Critical13]

I don't think it's significantly higher than hype was with Matthews for example. I think Dahlin and Matthews are similar tier prospects and the hype is also comparable.

The Matthews vs Dahlin thread says otherwise.
If he

 

[Plural]

The Matthews vs Dahlin thread says otherwise.
If he

They're literally tied in the poll (which I think is stupid since Matthews is a proven player) so it stands to reason that most people think they're similar tier players. This place always hypes up prospects. Matthews was just as hyped. Consensus #1 OA picks get talked and overrated here.

 

[nobody]

This wins most idiotic post of the week. I can't believe you actually typed this and didn't immediately realize it was moronic.

How does fan speculation from years ago impact player evaluations today? Obviously Matthews has better players around him.

"Eichel has vets" - yeah Moulson and Pominville lmfao. The Sabres are a literal dumpster fire with poor coaching and Eichel still manages to produce at an impressive rate.

Did I mention again how bad this post was?

[mod] As I said before, I just hear a bunch of excuses. Eichel is a star player but he can't carry Auston's jock strap.

 

[Critical13]

They're literally tied in the poll (which I think is stupid since Matthews is a proven player) so it stands to reason that most people think they're similar tier players. This place always hypes up prospects. Matthews was just as hyped. Consensus #1 OA picks get talked and overrated here.

Matthews is being called a 60-70 point player in that thread, many citing his bad playoffs and injuries. Dahlin apparently is flawless.

Otherwise, yes I agree with what you said. We do tend to overhype here.

 

[nobody]

Dahlin does seem like a sure fire thing though. I usually don't give prospect value over proven NHL players but there are exceptions. I think Dahlin is one of those exceptions.

Do you really think Dahlin will be the exception to the case when it comes to young D breaking into the NHL? Specially with the current D-core and defensive systems? This kid must be superman.

 

[Plural]

Matthews is being called a 60-70 point player in that thread, many citing his bad playoffs and injuries. Dahlin apparently is flawless.

Otherwise, yes I agree with what you said. We do tend to overhype here.

Well, Matthews is 60-70 point player. He's also a PPG C and 40 goal scorer. He's a lot of things. People use simplistic arguments to boost their position. It's nothing new.

 

[haveandare]

As of now, very clearly Toronto's players. Could switch the other way as early as this time next year though.

 

[haveandare]

Dahlin does seem like a sure fire thing though. I usually don't give prospect value over proven NHL players but there are exceptions. I think Dahlin is one of those exceptions.

Even Karlsson wasn't obviously an elite NHL player until his third year

 

[PinkFly]

there you go, you two. You've both once again proven you can't talk about the maple leafs objectively. So if you could stop pretending that would be great.

What? There's nothing wrong with my post. As a Leafs fan, I believe I am more than qualified to state an opinion on this subject.

Mittelstadt is way under the radar but time has to prove it out. I certainly hope Mittelstadt has more compete than Nylander. Can’t wait to bump.

Eichel = Matthews
Mittelstadt < Marner
Dahlin >>>> Nylander or Reilly

Eichel is a notorious drama queen which is a huge red flag. There are probably a few teams in the NHL that wouldn't take him for free just because of the negative impact he would have on a team's culture.

 

[biotk]

As a fan of both teams I would say that:

Nylander and Mittelstadt are about even. Both have a lot of potential, and some flaws. Yes, Nylander has proven himself in the NHL, while I am not sold on his compete level, while CM has only played 6 games, but a pretty good first 6 games (although there were some holes, and he got a little puck luck). Both had really strong WJCs during their D+1. If you gave me a choice between the adding one of the two to "my team" it would take me a bit to decide. If I was playing it safe I would go with Nylander because he has proven himself in the NHL. If I was taking a risk I would go with CM because I think that he has a higher ceiling.

I rate Dahlin higher than Marner. Again Dahlin hasn't played yet, and D are harder to judge how they will turn out, and I think that he has become a little over-rated by some on these boards. Still Dahlin is the real deal. Best D prospect I have watched in a long, long time. Marner is great but he is not Dahlin. If you gave me a choice between the adding one of the two to "my team" it would 100% be Dahlin.

Matthews I place significantly above Eichel. I know that many will say they are close, but I have watched Eichel from his first NHL game, and Matthews starting about a week into his NHL career and I have not missed many of their games since. I also expected Eichel to be the better of the two and am from Buffalo. Eichel is great, amazing at transitions and extremely exciting to watch. But Matthews is way better. If you go by stat watching, Matthews leads comfortably. If you go by pretty much anything else Matthews leads by even more.

First two years:
Eichel: 142 GP 48G 65A 113Pts
Matthews: 144GP 74G 58A 132 Pts

So overall I would rank the two threesomes pretty even. Tie goes to the team with the best player among the 6 and that is Matthews.

 

[Plural]

Even Karlsson wasn't obviously an elite NHL player until his third year

He wasn't nearly as highly touted prospect as Dahlin though.

 

[Notsince67]

Would you trade Marner for 1st overall this years draft? If yes, there you go, you have your answer. [mod]

You don't think there are GM's out there that would gladly trade this year's #1 for Marner?

 

[tom leafers]

Wouldn't the better comparison be; Matthews, Marner & Rielly vs Eichel, Dahlin, & Mittelstadt?

Seems kinda skewed to include the Sabres young #1D, and not the Leafs young #1D

The whole thing is skewed.

The poll is comparing a proven scoring trio in MNM to Eichel, a player who hasent even been drafted yet, and a player who has 6 games of NHL experience.