Matt Duchene

[StayAtHomeAv]

He can only get an assist if someone scores a goal. How many times last year did we see a great feed that Talbot, et al whiffed? I'm not saying he gets a free pass on anything, I'm just saying to manage expectations. He can improve his numbers with a better PP, he can improve his numbers by being a better playmaker. I think he looks to feed Iggy too much as it is. But he's not getting 50 assists unless he's playing with guys who can put it in the net.

I was certainly yelling at the TV more often from him not seeing a pass he usually did in the past than from a guy who whiffed on an easy goal. And it's not like those whiffs were not happening previously. I'm sure he could have had another 10 assists or so in any given year had those whiffs gone in.

Totally disagree about looking for Iggy too much. So many times he had Iggy open but just didn't see him. Iggy's 2 goals this year would be perfect examples. Those were the type of plays Duchene would make in his sleep previously and do so numerous times a game. But he wasn't really see those last year as much as previously. He wasn't feed the crease/slot nearly as much, nor was he feeding passes through the slot/crease to the backside nearly as much. Those plays were still there plenty of times though.

Iggy can put the puck in the net better than anyone he has ever played with. Tanguay isn't much of a shooter, but he knows how to score when he takes a shot. O'Reilly was close to a 30 goal scorer with Duchene. Lando knows how to score. Mitchell has a good shot as well. And these were his most used line mates last year. These crappy offensive players like Talbot (11 games) and McLeod (not even part of the top1o most used line mates) really didn't get much time with him. He played plenty with guys who know how to put the puck in the net.

Duchene is perfectly capable of producing at a ppg even with just 1 good line mate. Sorry, but I expect professional athletes to play close to the level they are capable of. These are not kids, well most are not (Duchene isn't anymore). I'm not going to manage expectations for someone at this point in their career. I expect them to do what they are capable of. That doesn't mean anything less equals a bust or whatever that one poster was suggesting. It doesn't mean anything less is a bad sign or a big disappointment. I expect Duchene to get 70 points. I expect Lando to get about 60 and play great D while being physical. I expect Iggy to get close to 30 goals. I expect McLeod to piss off a lot of people. I expect Varly to be a top5 goalie. I expect EJ to be a top20 overall Dman. I expect Barrie to get 40 points easily. These guys are not kids anymore. We shouldn't be treating them with kid gloves and not expect them to play close to their potential. I can't do that at least.

If I'm managing my expectations about a player I'm doing so because I don't really have faith in said player. Basically, regarding Duchene, I would have to tell myself those 2 seasons from him were just a fluke or I will just have to accept that he is inconsistent. But I don't think that's the case. I think that production from him is very sustainable and that he can be a consistent producer year in and year out until his age starts to catch up to him down the road.

 

[tigervixxxen]

I expect him to get 60 points. 60 isn't PPG. For him to be PPG other factors have to be present.

 

[22FUTON9]

I expect him to get 60 points. 60 isn't PPG. For him to be PPG other factors have to be present.

60 points is merely better than what he produced last year. Although I do think he gets over criticized here I expect him to be better than a 60 point center.

 

[AssistantCaptain*]

Would you consider trading Duchene and Iginla for Hall and Purcell?

 

[22FUTON9]

Would you consider trading Duchene and Iginla for Hall and Purcell?

Nah. I pretty much see Hall as Duchene on the wing. and we don't have anyone to play center if we get rid of Duchene. Both fanbases are freaking out way too much over these two.

 

[AvsRobin]

Would you consider trading Duchene and Iginla for Hall and Purcell?

Giving up another centre? Out of the question. Duchene and MacK is basically untouchable now when Stastny and ROR is gone.

 

[LieutenantDangle]

We need to get him a settled in Rantanen and Radulov

i would bet all my fortunes on this pipe dream line being the highest producing line on the avs team next year if this ever happened. and thats not a slam on mack at all

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

Would you consider trading Duchene and Iginla for Hall and Purcell?

Hall has his problems...grass is always greener and all that.

 

[Meeqs]

[Reposting this as it absolutely belongs here]

Duchene is a very interesting player for me, but there is a tall tell sign that he is a true #1 center that goes mostly untalked about, and that is his ability to make certain line mates MUCH better than they actually are. Over his career he has done this with many players:

Hejduk: Played his best hockey with Duchene towards the end of his career, after he was moved away from him he quickly lost ice time and then retired.

Flash: Played at a high 2nd line, low top line winger with Duchene and got massively overpaid on UFA because of it, has been a journeyman 3rd liner ever since.

PaP: Was a top 20 point scorer the year he played with Duchene, then was a healthy scratch on 2 teams and bought out once he was moved away from him.

RoR: Had by far and away his best offensive numbers with Duchene, only scored at a 3rd line pace without him and got massively overpaid because of it.

Mcginn: A third line grinder who the season he played with Duchene doubled his point totally and almost hit 20 goals.


The point here being is that when Duchene is matched with wingers that don't mesh well with his fast paced game, no matter how skilled (like Iginla or Gabe) he tends to really struggle. However, when he is put with players whose style works well with his he elevates those players to levels that shouldn't be possible. Its is because of this that when you look at Duchene's linemate usage he has very often been paired with 3rd or 4th liners like Mitchel and Mcleod in hopes that he can carry them why other players like Mackinnon or (insert 3rd liner here) get a more sheltered role around more talented players.

So unfortunately Iggy will probably spend most of his time with Duchene because there isn't really a great spot for him on the line up and he still has the talent to be on the top 6. However, I think Avs fans should have some patient optimism because it is really looking like Rantanen may be the PERFECT fit for Duchene and the best winger he has ever had. So once the young Finn is able to settle into his game I don't expect these posts will be a thing anymore.

 

[Meeqs]

Also to answer poll, does he have trouble finding chemistry with linemates in general: no, but with the current players on the roster, yes (but probably not rantanen)

 

[cgf]

ROR produced first line numbers without duchene...and got paid market value for his talents...the overall point is a good one, ROR's just not the best example because he produce first line numbers on his own and outpaced his production with Duchene on the 92-90-29 line. Plus the shot at his salary demands was unnecessary; just gives that part of your post that jilted-lover vibe.

As for Iggy I actually think there's a perfect spot for him away from Duchene; next to the Yeti. They play at a more similar pace, and Soderberg is a smart passer who would really be helped by a pure shooter like Iginla.

i would bet all my fortunes on this pipe dream line being the highest producing line on the avs team next year if this ever happened. and thats not a slam on mack at all

I would have no doubt about it. Even if the Landy line didn't get tougher minutes from Patrick.

 

[frog]

I think Duchene thinks and wants to be a superstar player, but he just is not. He wants to be like Forsberg but he doesn't have the same natural skill/vision and therefore he is always frustrated for not living up to those standards. He needs to lower his expectations and accept that he is a streaky but good center who can contribute to success. Once he can come to turns that he will never be franchise player like sakic or Crosby, I think is when he will be more confident as a star 1 or 2 center.

 

[cgf]

Duchene on his game is one of the most dynamic and exciting players in the league, and he makes some beautiful passes. That's why he's an elite ES producer. His issues remain his inability to shoot and how hard he is on himself when the team is struggling. He just puts too much pressure on his shoulders. Roy helped EJ move past the same problem, so hopefully the same happens with Duchene, but even with that issue Matty can absolutely take over games regularly if he's confident...and it wouldn't hurt if he was out there with a partner(s) who fits him well...like Rintintin will in time or Rads would if he swam over.

 

[Freudian]

I think he's working hard this year and hardly get any pucks while he's gathering speed so he not being helped by how the team plays at the moment. He's at his best when he's allowed to challenge defenders with his speed.

But how on earth can a player have as poor shooting accuracy as he does? Get the puck on net. Stop trying to go top corner all the time and try to just shoot it where it might go in (between pad and arm, five hole, hell shoot at goalie for rebound).

 

[ThatAvsGamer]

I believe he needs a better winger. Iginla will find his grove. I don't think Rantanen is ready for that line.

 

[chet1926]

The problem for Duchene is very simple, and it comes down to 3 things.

1. He doesn't have a great shot, it's an OK shot, he knows this and tries to be too fine with it and misses all together way to frequently. It would do wonders for his stats if someone could get into his head that he needs to average 3+ shots on net a night. He'll start getting some lucky breaks like MacKinnon got the other night in Anaheim where he just put a shot on net and the goalie blew it. Plus he'll force the goalie to make a save which could lead to rebounds for his teammates, and he'll pick a few cheap assists based off of rebounds. 3 shots a night is approximately 250 shots for a year, which is where he should be.

2. Duchene is a mental midget. One bad thing happens, and for him it spirals into 10 days of just garbage hockey. Where he tries to do everything himself. I don't know if this is fixable, he done this his whole career. No one seems to be able to get him to realize this is a team sport, you're going to have bad nights, you have to forget about them and play your game the next night.

3. Jarome Iginla. This pairing with Iginla just doesn't work. Stats prove it too. The year before Iginla, Duchene scores basically point per game, first year with Iginla drops to 55 pts in 82 games. First 5 games this year 1 lousy point. This combo is terrible and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure it out, but yet we still run them out there every night. It's time to try something new. I hate to say it but Iginla is holding back Duchene. Iginla does absolutely nothing other than score at this point in his career, which is streaky at best anyways. So once again Matt is left trying to pick up the pieces and do way too much on his own because all his line mate does is float around in hopes that Duchene can get him the puck in a scoring area. Iginla should be relegated to 3rd line minutes, with 1st unit PP time, because that is all he is good for.

 

[Bender]

The problem for Duchene is very simple, and it comes down to 3 things.

3. Jarome Iginla. This pairing with Iginla just doesn't work. Stats prove it too. The year before Iginla, Duchene scores basically point per game, first year with Iginla drops to 55 pts in 82 games. First 5 games this year 1 lousy point. This combo is terrible and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure it out, but yet we still run them out there every night. It's time to try something new. I hate to say it but Iginla is holding back Duchene. Iginla does absolutely nothing other than score at this point in his career, which is streaky at best anyways. So once again Matt is left trying to pick up the pieces and do way too much on his own because all his line mate does is float around in hopes that Duchene can get him the puck in a scoring area. Iginla should be relegated to 3rd line minutes, with 1st unit PP time, because that is all he is good for.

I think it works just fine with 'Game 41 to 82 Iginla' but 'Games 1 to 41 Iginla'...not so much.

 

[tigervixxxen]

It's a good theory but we don't exactly have a plethora of wingers to go around. Also having slow wingers doesn't help keep possession if you want him to shoot that much.

 

[cgf]

It's a good theory but we don't exactly have a plethora of wingers to go around. Also having slow wingers doesn't help keep possession if you want him to shoot that much.

That's one of my biggest problems with playing Iggy on Duchene's line and why I'd much rather have Matt partnered with Comeau and Rantanen.

 

[chet1926]

That's one of my biggest problems with playing Iggy on Duchene's line and why I'd much rather have Matt partnered with Comeau and Rantanen.

I would love to see this combo. Comeau is a lot like McGinn who Duchene played well with in the past, and Rantanen has the skills right now as an 18 year old to be a Mueller/Flash skill player for Duchene. But sadly it will never happen because Roy won't separate Iginla and Duchene.

 

[chet1926]

I think it works just fine with 'Game 41 to 82 Iginla' but 'Games 1 to 41 Iginla'...not so much.

I'm not fully convinced that Iginla is just going to turn it on again. He looked much better last season than this one. He was at least doing some things to help the team last year even though he wasn't scoring. This year he seems to be on another planet just floating around everywhere, unless it's a PP, then he tries hard.

 

[cgf]

I'm not fully convinced that Iginla is just going to turn it on again. He looked much better last season than this one. He was at least doing some things to help the team last year even though he wasn't scoring. This year he seems to be on another planet just floating around everywhere, unless it's a PP, then he tries hard.

Nah, iggy was completely useless last year when he wasn't shooting.

I would love to see this combo. Comeau is a lot like McGinn who Duchene played well with in the past, and Rantanen has the skills right now as an 18 year old to be a Mueller/Flash skill player for Duchene. But sadly it will never happen because Roy won't separate Iginla and Duchene.

I'm not so sure, at least not once Rintintin is more settled in and ready to play a bigger role on the duchene line. Especially if Iggy gets on the PP with Soderberg, cause I think those two would gel well with Greg or Malkin as their LW.

 

[EdAVSfan]

But that's the thing for Duchene. He doesn't need to have fast players on his line.
That's never been who he's most effective with.

He needs playmakers on his wings. Slow, fast, doesn't matter. Fleischmann and PAP aren't fast, and yet, he had by far the most chemistry with those guys.

He needs players who can create with the puck. Guys who can pass, but can also slow down the play. Shoot-first guys(and in Iginla's case, shoot-only), and north-south guys (McGinn) are useless to him. Guys like Tanguay, probably Soderberg, Rantanen, even ROR are his most ideal linemates.

Stop putting him with guys that don't mesh with his style. He can't be the only threat on his line to carry the puck, create, and then dish off for a tap in score. Its too easy for teams to defend that. But give him another guy who can create, stall, distribute and you make Dutchy that much more effective.

He needs puck-possession players. Not scorers, not shooters, not forecheckers, not energy guys, and not speedy guys. Puck-possession playmakers first and foremost, regardless of their speed.

Iginla-Duchene is Stastny-Jones all over again. Its helping one guy to the detriment of the other.

 

[cgf]

McGinn was certainly not useless next to Dutchy and complimented that ROR-Dutchy duo very nicely. Comeau would be a similarly nice fit with Rantanen playing the part of ROR.

 

[EdAVSfan]

McGinn was certainly not useless next to Dutchy.

I don't particularly think they really worked well together.