Matt Carle

[fauxflex]

I don't know what to say other than maybe you weren't paying attention. Perhaps Carle is only average at defending the cycle, but he can transition the puck so the puck won't go right back into their own zone.

Well, it's not like all of Carle's passes worked either. Some of them never made it out of the zone at all. And he rarely skated it out himself. There are guys on the team that are fully capable of making puck moving plays out of the zone that don't end up going right back in.

It's not simple D-to-D passes, it's clean, smart passes that smoothly direct the puck forward. It's how Carle was consistently among the leaders in even strength points for defenders.

Carle didn't get a lot of his points from starting the play up the ice, he was the beneficiary of playing lots of minutes on productive units. He was opportunstic in pinching/joining the play once the team was in the o zone...he ended up getting some touches during scoring plays and collecting points. He didn't really key the plays very often. I believe the advanced stats indicate the Flyers scored at a higher rate with Carle off the ice than they did with him on. So what does that tell you?

And if were so easy that "anyone can do it", why do so many of Schenn/Grossman/Coburn/Gervais's passes result in a stymied rush or turnover.

I think you are perhaps only focusing on these players' few obvious mistakes (no player is flawless) and not so much on the numerous solid plays they do make.

It's not a fresh and objective to view exaggerate the skills of players on your team, nor is it fresh and objective to continue the unwarranted Carle bashing that was so popular on these boards. Gervais is a borderline NHL player, Schenn can't skate or handle the puck, and Grossmann can't pass and read breakouts.

Talk about gross misrepresentation! You obviously aren't watching or, for some reason, cannot recognize the things I'm seeing from these guys. Your assertion about Gervais Schenn and Grossman is way off base.

Here, let me present some evidence to you. I went back and took some clips from a recent game. I found numerous solid puck moving plays from all of these guys. Plays involving solid D, swift skating and passing, some of which I wonder if Carle would be capable of. Keep in mind, these clips aren't cherry-picked from a bunch of games, these plays are all from ONE GAME. I ask you to look at these with a "fresh and objective" viewpoint. If you're not blind, ignorant, or extremely biased, you'll be able to clearly see the puck moving skills these guys have. If you don't see it, well I guess there's nothing that will convince you. And go ahead and ask yourself when watching each clip, "Would Carle have been able to do that?" I have to think, at least in some of the cases, the answer would be "no" or "not likely". Also keep in mind, these clips are focusing on Grossman, Gervais, Schenn, Coburn and Gusty. Timonen and Mez are also skilled puck movers in their own right. My point being that the Flyers have multiple guys that can move the puck just fine, so they don't need Matt Carle in order to do it effectively.

HERES THE CLIPS - I TRIED EMBEDDED CLIPS BUT IT WASN'T FUNCTIONING SO JUST CLICK ON THE LINKS BELOW EACH DESCRIPTION:

Here's Bruno Gervais grabbing the puck from behind the net and swiftly skating it out of the zone and deke-ing a guy before making a nice lead pass to Couturier who takes it in and sets up a good scoring chance by Knuble:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=osx2qNQz834&feature=youtu.be



Gervais clears up off of Simmer and out:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=REZcmLVU-KA


Grossman scores:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wGwQKoZgIH0




Coburn joins the rush, gains the zone, setting up a nice scoring play

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8u6s-FOiw1I



Gervais gets to the loose puck off a Penguin shot behind the net and makes a nice pass up to Read to start the break, Gusty joins the play, Schenn gets a shot off from the point:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9yS_4c7uCdw



Gusty up to Read (PK):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Oxdfyv6qtA


More Gusty:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=huNk1VbEtz4



Off a D zone faceoff, Schenn takes the body, gets to a loose puck and makes a nice backhand pass up to Read to start the break:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0AY6qmvPsQU



Schenn nails Dupuis into his own bench boards, then gets back in time to cover his man in the slot where he collects a Pens shot then skates up and delivers a crisp outlet pass to Couturier to start the break:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rw41IoIIzRw



Grossman wins a battle along the D sideboards and gets the puck to Couturier who gets it to Talbot and out:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKLdz8_G60Y



Schenn gathers the puck along the D zone boards, passes onto the tape of Timonen who passes back to Schenn who skates the puck up makes a nice lead pass onto the tape of Couturier who enters the O zone:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5F6-eUjd2o



Timonen from behind the net, up to Schenn who skates a bit before making a slick lead pass up the ice to Voracek:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5bayVnf675c



Coby and Grossman pass to shake off pressure from Crysby before moving the puck up to Coots:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7XLAdz9x_lE



This is a nice sequence for Grossman and Coby. Coby fights for a puck aong the defensive boards, Grossman comes in, gets the puck and curls around the slot before hitting G with a sweet pass that sends him off on the rush. They gain the zone and get to work, Grossman makes a nice pinch to keep it in along the far boards (25 sec of the vid). The guys set up and apply more pressure, with the Coburn moving the puck from the umbrella...the Pens get it out but Coburn skates back and makes a cross ice pass to Timonen who deftly enters back into the offensive zone, Lots of solid puck moving:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iXTsXZE_CYA



Coby fights off Crosby to gain control in the defensive zone, makes a cross ice pass to Grossman who makes a nice pass up to Fedotenko to send him off into the offensive zone:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSEkqawEueA



Schenn pummels Kunitz along the D boards, freeing the puck over to Gervais who gets it to Talbot and out:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VypINJgykl0


Gusty transitions quickly up to ZolnerczykzzzzkzkYYZ:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nBL47zem30Q


Cootz passes back to Coby who moves the puck into the zone:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=THsCoINJuek


Grossman clears the zone for a line change, then moves the puck to Briere who loses it, then Grossman makes a great defensive play deflecting the dangerous pass from Neal to Malkin in the low slot up to B Schenn:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LvSK2rUcQ78



Coburn gets the puck back to him off the center ice faceoff, moves the puck up swiftly to Voracek who shoots in, the Flyers get posession deep, Coburn pinches into the slot and gets a good shot and Voracek puts in the rebound:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWq1dIAlyLk


Grossman clears from deep in the D zone, setting up posession deep in the Pens: zone:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTw9FfkGVeA



Gusty and Coby move the puck nicely on the pp break-out. Coby gets a nice shot from the point:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gtSEwy2SxNU


Schenn fights off a forechecker and gets the puck to Grossman behind, who bangs it up the boards and out...the Pens re-enter, Grossman and Gervais work against the forecheck to clear from deep in the zone:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nlx3NsaxxOQ


Gusty goes D to D behind the net to Gervais, who moves the puck up out of the zone to the forwards, which sets up an eventual goal by Simmer:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HM2KkIPzOPY


In this impressive sequence, Gusty makes no less than six puck moving plays in a little over a minute (too bad the rest of the team wasted it):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nt1uCF2C7qc


Grossman takes the puck off the faceoff win and moves it behind the net which he uses to pick the forechecker, he then skates it out with the puck confidently before making a solid lead pass to Giroux to key the breakout. Later in the sequence he helps out deep to keep the cycle going:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXyA_DWh5KM


Gusty uses a strong stick to force the puck off Sutter in the D zone. Gusty then skates up and goes d to do for Gervias who skates it up and out of teh zone before depositing into the Pens zone:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PdjyveXw9Mc

 

[Beef Invictus]

Our forwards' turnovers in our own end and the neutral zone have been far more of an issue than the D's passing ability.

 

[SgtJoseph*]

Our forwards' turnovers in our own end and the neutral zone have been far more of an issue than the D's passing ability.

I agree with this ! Our D has not been the problem some here suggest.

 

[Ryker]

So on the topic of Carle, he has 10 turnovers, placing him 111th in the league, while our defensive juggernaut Coburn has 25, placing him 2nd behind Kovalchuk and first among defensemen

 

[Roo Mad Bro]

Really enjoyed watching some of those clips, FauxFlex.

They still need a good PMD, though, IMO.

 

[Beef Invictus]

So on the topic of Carle, he has 10 turnovers, placing him 111th in the league, while our defensive juggernaut Coburn has 25, placing him 2nd behind Kovalchuk and first among defensemen

I've been contemplating a Coburn thread for a while. He's been so awful. I've been theorizing that he has some sort of an injury, perhaps to his shoulder. Just watch him shoot; his shot is noticeably weaker than it used to be.

Not that he had a cannon to begin with, but it sure looks like a downgrade to me.

 

[thelos]

I've been contemplating a Coburn thread for a while. He's been so awful. I've been theorizing that he has some sort of an injury, perhaps to his shoulder. Just watch him shoot; his shot is noticeably weaker than it used to be.

Not that he had a cannon to begin with, but it sure looks like a downgrade to me.

Yeah Coburn leads the team in giveaways and has taken a bunch of minor penalties

 

[RJ8812*]

Coburn has been terrible. He's probably been the biggest disappointment this season

 

[CootaRoo]

What are you guys talking about? Coburn is a proven #2 defenseman.

-Chris Shafer

 

[RJ8812*]

What are you guys talking about? Coburn is a proven #2 defenseman.

-Chris Shafer

 

[thelos]

proven inconsistent

 

[CS]

What are you guys talking about? Coburn is a proven #2 defenseman.

-Chris Shafer

He was last year.

But thanks for coming out troll.

 

[flyersfan187]

Coburn has always been inconsistent in the regular season. Come playoff time he will show you why you keep him on your team.

 

[CootaRoo]

He was last year.

...

and I'M called the troll.

 

[FlyersFanz]

No Matt Carle...he gave away pucks more than any other Dman in the league. Tampa can have him. Philly should try for Byfuglien if you ask me.

 

[fauxflex]

Really enjoyed watching some of those clips, FauxFlex.

They still need a good PMD, though, IMO.

Just got done watching the game tonight against the Caps (4-1 win). The D was mostly great, and excelled at moving the puck up and out of the zone all night and was a big reason the play was tilted mostly toward the Caps end of the ice.

I can post another 30 or so clips from tonights game with Grossman, Gervais and Schenn each showing more dynamic puck moving (skating and passing) out of the defensive zone than Carle typically shows. I know, for some this is hard to fathom., but it's just the reality of it. As a couple others have noted, the problem isn't the D not being able to move the puck, it has more to do with the forwards not supporting or maintaining posession through the neutral zone and bearing down on the forecheck. Tonight though, they made the most of it. Grossman started the breakout on the early first goal. The rest of the D, was active and moving the puck really well all night. Schenn, though not perfect, was a formidable two-way force, he made a great puck moving play to set up Talbot's goal and numerous other passes up tot eh O from the d zone and of course a ton of HITS. Gervais skated and made solid passes/plays just about all night. Grossman is just a revelation to me. He can move the puck really well with decisive skating and passing plays out of the zone. He also makes good keeps and pinches in the o zone, rarely getting beat back. He's also a defensive force with his physical game and league leading blocks. Regarding his puck moving, I know it sounds crazy to some, but I would honestly give the edge to Grossman, primarily due to his ability to consistently skate the puck up the ice, something Carle seemed to avoid if he could. Grossman also makes some nice, decisive passes so his passing game is there too. I just hope the guy stays healthy. He's the best D man on the team right now imo.

 

[Giroux tha Damaja]

I think you guys have a point about Coburn's play this year. He's struggled. But he was so consistently solid last year and has shown the ability to elevate his game hugely in the past, so I'm not too worried about him just yet. I think he'll be fine.