News Article: Mats Sundin on Matthews, Leafs and Leadership

[Jackson14]

Leader how? He lead Tucker, Kubina, McCabe and Kaberle to what.... I'm ignorant? Hypocrite

He lead the 2006 gold medal team of Lidstrom, Alfredsson, Forsberg, Zetterberg, the Sedins, Lundqvist and others. A legendary team by all accounts. Sundin was captain, 2nd on the team in points.

 

[Craig Button]

The melodrama of this thread, can't discuss another era and enjoy this one?

Sundin fit the bill? What did his career amount to? He's a loser and he has no respect for the fans when he refused to waive, I'm not obligated to respect him, kinda hard to kiss the ring when he never even came close to getting one.

Love legends row because I get to spit back on his effigy.

Buddy are you still butt hurt from 10+ years ago.
Move on man.

Wow man. You seem like the guy that would bitch about ex-girlfriends from 20 years ago.

Move on man. You are seriously embarrassing yourself

 

[LondonKendrick]

... more pithy whining, name a few great moments of Sundin as a Leaf, oh wait there are none.

Elite Superstar grinding heroically between Antropov and Poni, which you marks confuse with greatness.

 

[Craig Button]

Staring at the ceiling in the dark
Same old empty feeling in your heart
Love comes slow and it goes so fast
Well you see her when you fall asleep
But never to touch and never to keep
'Cause you loved her too much and you dive too deep
'Cause you only need the light when it's burning low
Only miss the sun when it starts to snow
Only know you love her when you let her go
Only know you've been high when you're feeling low
Only hate the road when you're missing home
Only know you love her when you let her go
And you let her go
Oh oh oh no
And you let her go
Oh oh oh no
And you let her go

 

[Craig Button]

 

[Jackson14]

... more pithy whining, name a few great moments of Sundin as a Leaf, oh wait there are none.

Elite Superstar grinding heroically between Antropov and Poni, which you marks confuse with greatness.

Auston Matthews is playing with Hyman and Brown right now, Sidney Crosby is notorious for having lesser players on his line. I don't understand your point anyways. Sundins line was always considered the 1st line by his presence alone. Nough said.

As for great moments I mean we're going back over a decade here but I still remember his slapshot, game winning, OT, hat-trick, 500th goal of his career. Was magical. Beyond that I imagine I'm just forgetting them. He's 9th in NHL history in GWGs, obviously some amazing moments in there.

You're also completely ignoring the fact that Team Sweden always made him the captain of their legendary teams.

There's a reason you're on an island with your opinion.

 

[LondonKendrick]

Auston Matthews is playing with Hyman and Brown right now, Sidney Crosby is notorious for having lesser players on his line. I don't understand your point anyways. Sundins line was always considered the 1st line by his presence alone. Nough said.

As for great moments I mean we're going back over a decade here but I still remember his slapshot, game winning, OT, hat-trick, 500th goal of his career. Was magical. Beyond that I imagine I'm just forgetting them. He's 9th in NHL history in GWGs, obviously some amazing moments in there.

You're also completely ignoring the fact that Team Sweden always made him the captain of their legendary teams.

There's a reason you're on an island with your opinion.

Yeah, that OT goal on Calgary was nice, but a regular win in a non playoff year, 4 on 4 for 500th? Meh, I suppose his biggest goal was the game tier to then win in OT with a second left in Carolina. Again Leafs went deep with him injured for the first two series.

Who was second to Mats in OT goals, Steve Thomas, is he legendary as well.

I'm only commenting on his Leaf career, I'm not saying Mats was a bad player, he was his generations Kessel who said way too long. Kessel has been amazing on the Olympic stage but he's the complimentary star on a success (the key term I'd like to continue to emphasize) team. Like Carter is the complimentary center in the top six of a championship team.
I don't care about having a uniform opinion on the internet, they're are plenty of Leafs fans that don't think much of Sundin and Sundin's legacy.

 

[Kazparov]

Sundin not a #1 C lmao....

 

[meefer]

Sundin not a #1 C lmao....

Rarely do I challenge someone for saying something truly dumb, but dude, you either didn't see Mats during his time as a Leaf, or you're just ... I really hate to say this...stupid.

 

[Kazparov]

Rarely do I challenge someone for saying something truly dumb, but dude, you either didn't see Mats during his time as a Leaf, or you're just ... I really hate to say this...stupid.

I was laughing at the guy who was saying this relax

 

[meefer]

I was laughing at the guy who was saying this relax

My apologies, I read your earlier comment the wrong way. I've given myself two minutes for stupidity.

 

[LondonKendrick]

Sundin not a #1 C lmao....

On A CONTENDING TEAM

If anyone can sack up and actually address the criticism, it's funny how you have to duck the argument but I'm the idiot? Cowards gunna coware

 

[Leafblooded]

On A CONTENDING TEAM

If anyone can sack up and actually address the criticism, it's funny how you have to duck the argument but I'm the idiot? Cowards gunna coware

Your opinion is on a deserted island mate, time to take a swim

 

[CokenoPepsi]

Sundin as a Canuck, still seems like a weird dream.

 

[Gabriel426]

Still can't believe someone actually think Sundin was not a 1C. Would Dougie be 1C if he played on the Kings, Pens, and Rangers during his best season? Is Matthews a 1C if he plays for the Pens, Kings or TB today?

 

[meefer]

Big fish in a relatively small pond, I'm well aware of his cutesy numbers, the point is on a contender he wasn't a 1C, the mistake was building around him as a center piece. You could put up the same spread sheet to show how Kessel was the Leafs best offensive producer but he was miscast as a franchise player so he was traded somewhere he could find success in another role.

But Kessel is scum in Toronto and Sundin walks on water. I enjoyed there play in Toronto but both ultimately forgettable.

How was Sundin's production in terms of PPG in Vancouver where he was just the best player on a thin roster?

That you could qualify Mats Sundin's numbers, or any player having managed similar to his 1346 NHL games, 1349 total points and 96 game winning goals as "cutesy" speaks to your unwillingness to listen to logic. You have a hate on for Sundin, ok, but don't play the 'he wasn't a number 1 or was bad for the organization card' when you've exposed your dismissive attitude towards him with a comment I'm guessing you would never make of any other NHLer playing so many years so well. The 28th highest scorer in league history and he's not a #1? The 6th highest non-Canadian scorer in league history and he's not a #1? The Leafs never won the Cup during his time here, ya, that might be a valid argument, if you also include: Hawerchuk, Thornton, Perreault and Dionne, guys who some would argue were #1s but never won a Cup either.

 

[LondonKendrick]

That you could qualify Mats Sundin's numbers, or any player having managed similar to his 1346 NHL games, 1349 total points and 96 game winning goals as "cutesy" speaks to your unwillingness to listen to logic. You have a hate on for Sundin, ok, but don't play the 'he wasn't a number 1 or was bad for the organization card' when you've exposed your dismissive attitude towards him with a comment I'm guessing you would never make of any other NHLer playing so many years so well. The 28th highest scorer in league history and he's not a #1? The 6th highest non-Canadian scorer in league history and he's not a #1? The Leafs never won the Cup during his time here, ya, that might be a valid argument, if you also include: Hawerchuk, Thornton, Perreault and Dionne, guys who some would argue were #1s but never won a Cup either.

Was Mike Gartner a dominate forward? He did have 700 goals, it speaks to your dishonesty as if career totals are the whole story. What good are game winning goals in meaningless seasons of missed playoffs? Do we give Steve Thomas a statue for have so many game winning goals? If you decontexualize Mats numbers you can call him great but that is manipulative and lazy and it's the lazy case of 'look look at his numbers' I'm well aware of his numbers. So yes, I have an attitude when subjected to endless post of no substance, whose best effort is to tell me numbers I already know.

I enjoyed his Leaf career just fine until he exposed himself at the end of his tenure. I always supported the Leafs moving on from him in the cap era, not that it matters, I'm not obligated to fawn for Mats, my argue isn't 'you should hate Mats', my argument that he was bad for the organization and he wasn't a 1c on a contending team, he wasn't a franchise player on a winning franchise. He was Phil Kessel. Phil Kessel era = Mats era.

Now that we've established that you'll always love him and I'm not, can we discuss the matter?

It's this bs admiration of Mats that put him in the top 100 when a Gilmour (see if you address your flawed reasoning here isn't of calling me a Gilmour fanboy) who is what 18th in all time scoring and 8th all time in playoff scoring gets snubbed. Where is his statue? Gilmour wasn't a 1C for the majority of his career. I respect that he and the Leafs both moved on when he began to regress.

Again, see if you can follow, Mats wasn't a 1c ON A CONTENDER, you up to speed yet or must I burn another strawman?

Your opinion is on a deserted island mate, time to take a swim

More ducking, Mats fanboys in a Mats thread. The point of a message board isn't indulge uniform opinions

 

[Leafblooded]

Was Mike Gartner a dominate forward? He did have 700 goals, it speaks to your dishonesty as if career totals are the whole story. What good are game winning goals in meaningless seasons of missed playoffs? Do we give Steve Thomas a statue for have so many game winning goals? If you decontexualize Mats numbers you can call him great but that is manipulative and lazy and it's the lazy case of 'look look at his numbers' I'm well aware of his numbers. So yes, I have an attitude when subjected to endless post of no substance, whose best effort is to tell me numbers I already know.

I enjoyed his Leaf career just fine until he exposed himself at the end of his tenure. I always supported the Leafs moving on from him in the cap era, not that it matters, I'm not obligated to fawn for Mats, my argue isn't 'you should hate Mats', my argument that he was bad for the organization and he wasn't a 1c on a contending team, he wasn't a franchise player on a winning franchise. He was Phil Kessel. Phil Kessel era = Mats era.

Now that we've established that you'll always love him and I'm not, can we discuss the matter?

It's this bs admiration of Mats that put him in the top 100 when a Gilmour (see if you address your flawed reasoning here isn't of calling me a Gilmour fanboy) who is what 18th in all time scoring and 8th all time in playoff scoring gets snubbed. Where is his statue? Gilmour wasn't a 1C for the majority of his career. I respect that he and the Leafs both moved on when he began to regress.

Again, see if you can follow, Mats wasn't a 1c ON A CONTENDER, you up to speed yet or must I burn another strawman?


More ducking, Mats fanboys in a Mats thread. The point of a message board isn't indulge uniform opinions

Youre allowed to have whatever opinion you want...but your opinion is wrong, as most people in here have told you.

Leafs were true contenders for multiple seasons in the early 2000s, despite having shallow wing and centre depth. Mats was their number one centre, not at all a complimentary player. He was a top ten centre in the league his entire career, the best player on the Leafs, and leader of our team throughout.

He is nothing like Kessel, who has been a top ten, proven-complimentary winger his entire career. If Kessel had played with Sundin, Mats would be the leader, and Kessel the compliment. Arguing differently is asinine.

 

[BayStreetBully]

I enjoyed his Leaf career just fine until he exposed himself at the end of his tenure. I always supported the Leafs moving on from him in the cap era, not that it matters, I'm not obligated to fawn for Mats, my argue isn't 'you should hate Mats', my argument that he was bad for the organization and he wasn't a 1c on a contending team, he wasn't a franchise player on a winning franchise. He was Phil Kessel. Phil Kessel era = Mats era

We know. That’s what it’s all about. It’s nothing to do with Sundin’s play or contributions. It’s all about you. And that’s why when Auston leaves us at age 35 to sign with Arizona, his 15 excellent years as a Leaf will mean nothing to you, and Auston will be nothing but a worthless American bum who didn’t have the decency to finish his career the way you wanted him to. You know it, we know it.

 

[LondonKendrick]

Youre allowed to have whatever opinion you want...but your opinion is wrong, as most people in here have told you.

Leafs were true contenders for multiple seasons in the early 2000s, despite having shallow wing and centre depth. Mats was their number one centre, not at all a complimentary player. He was a top ten centre in the league his entire career, the best player on the Leafs, and leader of our team throughout.

He is nothing like Kessel, who has been a top ten, proven-complimentary winger his entire career. If Kessel had played with Sundin, Mats would be the leader, and Kessel the compliment. Arguing differently is asinine.

Opinions are neither right or wrong, arguments are, I'm yet to read a cogent argument, at best I've read some statistics I'm already well aware of and some half baked tautology that 'hith numbies are tho good soh heth the bestest'

As I've already said, Mats wasn't the franchise player in the Quinn Era, Cujo and Eddy were. It was a team that lived and died on goaltending. Shallow depth? Poor Mats only had Moginly, Owen Nolan, Gary Roberts, Steve Thomas, Nik Antropov, Tucker, Renberg, Corson with Joe Neiuwendyk and Reichel, Francis to play with over those years, boo hoo. That's not a lack of depth, it's a lack of franchise talent, luckily the franchise talent was in goal. So you're lying about the Quinn Era contention. Mats was a passenger and the Leafs didn't miss a beat in the playoffs when Mats broke his wrist.

Kessel finished top five in league scoring as a Leafs, did Mats ever do that? The Kessel years perfectly mirror Sundin's cap era Muskoka Five year, you see when MSLE had their spending capped, Mats got exposed. They couldn't buy forward depth (like they could in the contending years you brought up) so Mats was shown to be not a capable franchise player, An elite 1C.

Kessel was more productive and made the playoffs in the cap NHL, you can't deny the fact that Mats didn't even do that, the Leafs moved on from Kessel like they should have Mats. And in his proper place, Kessel two championships and counting. Kessel lead the playoffs in scoring, an achieve beyond anything Mats ever did.

 

[Leafblooded]

Opinions are neither right or wrong, arguments are, I'm yet to read a cogent argument, at best I've read some statistics I'm already well aware of and some half baked tautology that 'hith numbies are tho good soh heth the bestest'

As I've already said, Mats wasn't the franchise player in the Quinn Era, Cujo and Eddy were. It was a team that lived and died on goaltending. Shallow depth? Poor Mats only had Moginly, Owen Nolan, Gary Roberts, Steve Thomas, Nik Antropov, Tucker, Renberg, Corson with Joe Neiuwendyk and Reichel, Francis to play with over those years, boo hoo. That's not a lack of depth, it's a lack of franchise talent, luckily the franchise talent was in goal. So you're lying about the Quinn Era contention. Mats was a passenger and the Leafs didn't miss a beat in the playoffs when Mats broke his wrist.

Kessel finished top five in league scoring as a Leafs, did Mats ever do that? The Kessel years perfectly mirror Sundin's cap era Muskoka Five year, you see when MSLE had their spending capped, Mats got exposed. They couldn't buy forward depth (like they could in the contending years you brought up) so Mats was shown to be not a capable franchise player, An elite 1C.

Kessel was more productive and made the playoffs in the cap NHL, you can't deny the fact that Mats didn't even do that, the Leafs moved on from Kessel like they should have Mats. And in his proper place, Kessel two championships and counting. Kessel lead the playoffs in scoring, an achieve beyond anything Mats ever did.

Too lazy to argue with you, especially since your points are conjecture at best and disingenuous at worst.

You've got your mind made up anyway. Why not go cheer for a different team with better players then? Kessels in Pittsburgh now, they got Crosby too!

 

[LondonKendrick]

Too lazy to argue with you, especially since your points are conjecture at best and disingenuous at worst.

You've got your mind made up anyway. Why not go cheer for a different team with better players then? Kessels in Pittsburgh now, they got Crosby too!

Pot meet kettle... like I said, you're not up to the argument, incapable of discourse and addressing the criticisms. Stick to your glib jabs and vapid opinions.

 

[Leafblooded]

Pot meet kettle... like I said, you're not up to the argument, incapable of discourse and addressing the criticisms. Stick to your glib jabs and vapid opinions.

Flattering that you care so much, I don't. Take her easy there JarJar

 

[BayStreetBully]

Too lazy to argue with you, especially since your points are conjecture at best and disingenuous at worst.

You've got your mind made up anyway. Why not go cheer for a different team with better players then? Kessels in Pittsburgh now, they got Crosby too!

He’s not even a Leafs fan. He admitted he wanted to destroy the Legends Row statues outside the ACC. No joke.

 

[Leafblooded]

He’s not even a Leafs fan. He admitted he wanted to destroy the Legends Row statues outside the ACC. No joke.

Breaking things must be therapeutic... Unresolved anger issues are a bitch!