Post-Game Talk: Matheson returns. Habs win against Flyers.

[CHwest]

I don't doubt he waited for an offer he wanted......he actually waited until the last week making things uncomfortable for the whole team (we all remember the awkward handshake at the golf tournament).

But the fact still remains, he wasn'T going for Suzuki......Suzuki happened to be the best offer and most likely the only offer he had that made senses (Pacioretty had a lot to say in a trade and sign deal)....but if they offered Glass, he would have taken him also.

That was a big problem I pointed out multiple time in the Bergevin....glad to hear Gervais confirmed it in his book......most of Bergevin's move were personnal and not base on hockey knowledge.

How could they be, he had very little knowledge. Good BSer though, he fed Molson a pile of bull waste and convinced him it was cake.

 

[Habs10Habs]

Comparing 2015 to 2021 has many flaws. A lot happened in the 4 years prior to 2015 and the 6 years after.

Regardless, it was a 5 year deal and who knows if it was $3M or $5M. The point here is fans wanted Bergevin fired before his contract even started. Not the same as firing the coaches with less term left or much less AAV in Ducharme's case. Term left matters! $15M or $25M is both a lot of money and his contract didn't even start until 17/18 (signed Nov of 2015).

Julien was signed through the 21/22 season. Fired Feb of 2021. So basically writing off 1.5 years of his salary ($7.5M). You can't tell me with a straight face that this is the same amount of money to write off with Bergevin back in the 2015-2018 range when he was trending the lowest and his 5 year contract only started in 17/18.

It's not rocket science... most guys let go who have lots of term left have little AAV. Guys let go with large AAV come with less term left.

I'm on Molson's side here folks. Yeah, he made mistakes but he learned from it. No way you write off that kind of money before a contract starts.

Not really, considering revenue went up league wide in each of those years. Plus Bergevin was negotiating his new contract. After taking the Habs to the Cup finals. Why would he take a pay cut?

My argument is your 5yr x 5mil contract for Bergevin's previous contract is incorrect. I never mentioned anything about buying him out. That was your argument with another poster.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Not really, considering revenue went up league wide in each of those years. Plus Bergevin was negotiating his new contract. After taking the Habs to the Cup finals. Why would he take a pay cut?

My argument is your 5yr x 5mil contract for Bergevin's previous contract is incorrect. I never mentioned anything about buying him out. That was your argument with another poster.

You can make your own argument but it's a side one. This started by fans wanting Bergevin fired before his contract started. I didn't claim it was 5x5 as a fact (There was a question mark there). So back to the previous post... $15M or $25M. The point remains. It's a lot of money to wright off.

Expecting Molson to write off a 5 year contract before it started is foolish. I'd drop that narrative if you are thinking it.

One other note: Bergevin's resume in 2015 was not the same as it was in 2021. Just like with Brisebois who likely got a raise when promoted to GM. What was the timing of when he was promoted to GM and when he got a new deal? I believe his latest deal was signed in Sept of 2021? When did Yzerman make him GM? And was that $3M or $3.5M facts? Lots of questions and things to look into

 

[Habs10Habs]

You can make your own argument but it's a side one. This started by fans wanting Bergevin fired before his contract started. I didn't claim it was 5x5 as a fact (There was a question mark there). So back to the previous post... $15M or $25M. The point remains. It's a lot of money to wright off.

Expecting Molson to write off a 5 year contract before it started is foolish. I'd drop that narrative if you are thinking it.

How is it a side one, when I provided an article with his rumoured asking price. While you're pulling a figure out of the air? Which you used to make your original argument. lol

Again, I never mentioned Bergevin being bought out. So I don't understand why you keep bringing that up in your discussion with me.

 

[ReHabs]

I'm pretty sure Bergevin's contract was around 5 years at $5M. Regardless of it being $25M to write off or $20M, it's still a large number and once again... he was extended 1.75 years before his new contract started.

It's not an excuse. Money is a big deal and you can act like it's not all you want. Once you sign it, you are committed to the guy. Molson was not qualified to step in hockey operations or to "block" moves like the narrative you are throwing out.

At the end of the day, timing is important and Molson learned from past mistakes. Reality. What are you trying to say? We have a bad owner who repeats mistakes?

It's not something to bicker over but Bergevin was making around 3m or less not 5m. You keep inflating the number to make a point that wouldn't be valid in any case even if it was a 6m contract.

Expecting Molson to write off a 5 year contract before it started is foolish. I'd drop that narrative if you are thinking it.

It's even more foolish to damn the team and allow him to trade for Weber (14m signing bonus a year) and make those contract commitments, and allow him to sign Julien to a 25m commitment. Your argument falls on its face.

Molson took 10 years to "learn"... I have no faith that barely one year later he's no longer a bad owner. No way, that's not how it works. You can fanboy the rich prick all you want, I have nothing but distrust and disdain for the guy who jacked up prices and costs after a losing season and didn't even spend to the cap.

 

[Habs Halifax]

It's not something to bicker over but Bergevin was making around 3m or less not 5m. You keep inflating the number to make a point that wouldn't be valid in any case even if it was a 6m contract.


It's even more foolish to damn the team and allow him to trade for Weber (14m signing bonus a year) and make those contract commitments, and allow him to sign Julien to a 25m commitment. Your argument falls on its face.

Molson took 10 years to "learn"... I have no faith that barely one year later he's no longer a bad owner. No way, that's not how it works. You can fanboy the rich prick all you want, I have nothing but distrust and disdain for the guy who jacked up prices and costs after a losing season and didn't even spend to the cap.

Choice of words is key if you want a respectful narrative.

* Bickering. You are the one bickering. I'm having a conversation with others.

* I keep Inflating numbers? $5M came with a ? after it. I'm not responsible for your lack of comprehension. $15M or $25M.. it's a lot of money to write off.

* Fanboy?

I'm on Molson's side here. Mistakes made but he learned from them. You don't write off a contract when it doesn't even start yet. Keep trying and next time, think about your choice of words.

Talk to me when there is new information to share. Time to move it back to Habs/Flyers game.

 

[ReHabs]

I'm on Molson's side here.

Yeah, that's the problem. Cheers.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Yeah, that's the problem. Cheers.

Problem for you yes. I respect the move Molson made with Gorton. I bet you are one of the fans who got obsessed with the new GM will be a puppet due to the French language narrative? Am I wrong? Be honest, I can go back and look.

 

[ReHabs]

Problem for you yes. I respect the move Molson made with Gorton. I bet you are one of the fans who got obsessed with the new GM will be a puppet due to the French language narrative? Am I wrong? Be honest, I can go back and look.

On my blog I wrote a bit on the GM search the title was Every GM Candidate is Bad;
I dismissed Hughes because I didn't understand why someone who give up all that money + influence to work under Gorton.

I wanted Roy because I figured if he's gonna work well under Gorton he wouldn't be a puppet and he'd be the opposite of Bergevin: not afraid, not conservative to a fault, a known and prove winner, etc.

The other options like Quintal, Darche, Briere, etc were inexperienced and would be predisposed to being puppets under the much more experienced Gorton

In the end we know what happened: Gorton got Hughes and seems to be on the right track to rebuild when they also got a top-tier coach in MSL.

I give Molson zero credit for any of this. He had 10 years to improve the Habs' hockey ops and did nothing. The Habs had no analytics, no development, no no skills dept... that's on Molson as much as it is on Bergevin.

 

[Habs Halifax]

On my blog I wrote a bit on the GM search the title was Every GM Candidate is Bad;
I dismissed Hughes because I didn't understand why someone who give up all that money + influence to work under Gorton.

I wanted Roy because I figured if he's gonna work well under Gorton he wouldn't be a puppet and he'd be the opposite of Bergevin: not afraid, not conservative to a fault, a known and prove winner, etc.

The other options like Quintal, Darche, Briere, etc were inexperienced and would be predisposed to being puppets under the much more experienced Gorton

In the end we know what happened: Gorton got Hughes and seems to be on the right track to rebuild when they also got a top-tier coach in MSL.

I give Molson zero credit for any of this. He had 10 years to improve the Habs' hockey ops and did nothing. The Habs had no analytics, no development, no no skills dept... that's on Molson as much as it is on Bergevin.

You will give Molson zero credit but you wanted Roy as GM? And you want me to listen to your Molson dislike?

 

[ReHabs]

You will give Molson zero credit but you wanted Roy as GM? And you want me to listen to your Molson dislike?

It's like you're not even trying right now. You asked for the truth and I shared it, with a fully written piece about the GM search no less. You don't want to read it? Okay.

Molson didn't have the wherewithal to improve the Habs' hockey ops - analytics, skills coaches, etc. There is no defending that. Cheers.

 

[Habs Halifax]

It's like you're not even trying right now. You asked for the truth and I shared it, with a fully written piece about the GM search no less. You don't want to read it? Okay.

Molson didn't have the wherewithal to improve the Habs' hockey ops - analytics, skills coaches, etc. There is no defending that. Cheers.

Nah, I don't like your truth. Why? It's your opinion that I don't agree with.

Molson did improve hockey opps with his latest move. You're just disgruntled that it took longer than you wanted. If Molson didn't learn, he would have hired Roy to be GM to match your plan

 

[ReHabs]

Molson did improve hockey opps with his latest move. You're just disgruntled that it took longer than you wanted. If Molson didn't learn, he would have hired Roy to be GM to match your plan

Yeah and you immediately forgive Molson for squandering the prime of Carey Price et al. for ten years and think he's a good owner now.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Yeah and you immediately forgive Molson for squandering the prime of Carey Price et al. and think he's a good owner.

Disingenuous spin. I already said mistakes were made but he learned from them with the Gorton hiring. He trusted Bergevin and then fell into a trap with the extension signed 1.75 years left before it started. He was not going to write off that money before the contract started. I keep running in circles here with what I said but you are disgruntled with Molson clearly so it's a waste of time. I don't think you are comprehending it well due to your Molson hate.

Others have moved on. Can you? I'm only replying to you so you are the one carrying it forward now.

 

[BLONG7]

turning around fast ... i agree !

went from a team that went into Cup Finals under Bergevin, to one last in the league under Hugues .

You do know........................................the last place team WAS Bergevin;'s team right? Laying last place on a GM who was hired in February seems to me like you are telling us you are Bergy's uncle? LOL

 

[ZUKI]

You do know........................................the last place team WAS Bergevin;'s team right? Laying last place on a GM who was hired in February seems to me like you are telling us you are Bergy's uncle? LOL

My God, do i have to explain what's a sarcasm ?

re-read posts above mine and it was a contest of who deserved this and that merit , based on fabulous theories...

No cookie for you tonight

 

[BLONG7]

My God, do i have to explain what's a sarcasm ?

re-read posts above mine and it was a contest of who deserved this and that merit , based on fabulous theories...

No cookie for you tonight

Easy easy..............it's ok.
We all know who the Bergevin fanboys used to be..............glad you made the journey across to the good side!!
lol

 

[ZUKI]

Yes, and that cost him his job.


I agree, Kovy, Koivu, Tanguay, Lang, Hamrlik, Komi, the Kostityns could have easily been traded for top buck. Instead, he traded Higgins and McDonagh for lousy Gomez.

When you think that people glorify Gainey and accuse Bergevin to be the worst Habs GM because he let going Markov and Radulov and traded Drouin for Sergachev ...it's so funny

 

[MTL Dirty Birdy]

It's not something to bicker over but Bergevin was making around 3m or less not 5m. You keep inflating the number to make a point that wouldn't be valid in any case even if it was a 6m contract.


It's even more foolish to damn the team and allow him to trade for Weber (14m signing bonus a year) and make those contract commitments, and allow him to sign Julien to a 25m commitment. Your argument falls on its face.

Molson took 10 years to "learn"... I have no faith that barely one year later he's no longer a bad owner. No way, that's not how it works. You can fanboy the rich prick all you want, I have nothing but distrust and disdain for the guy who jacked up prices and costs after a losing season and didn't even spend to the cap.

I think Gorton getting hired was a reflection of that reality. Now it’s no longer an owner and Berg. HuGo is way more savvy

 

[Milhouse40]

When you think that people glorify Gainey and accuse Bergevin to be the worst Habs GM because he let going Markov and Radulov and traded Drouin for Sergachev ...it's so funny

Sergachev's trade hurt just as much as the Gomez trade...even more this year with 18 points in 18 games as a Defenseman, not sure Drouin as even put that kind of streak as a forward. He's now deadweight, and Sergachev is starting to get into the Norris discussions and might be for the next 10 years. This one is going to sting for a long time

Gomez was a gigantic mistake.......legendary bad.
Drouin's trade is on the same level of legendary bad

 

[BargainBinSpecial]

Also, I'll add, your slant is even more obvious here. The defensive team you're talking about wasn't losing on most nights. They were winning on most nights. They averaged above a 100 points rate for 3 seasons.

By falsely portraying them as losing most nights, you're trying to improperly raise the present roster to a rate of success they simply haven't achieved yet and are not close to achieving yet.

I get it, you're super happy as we all are because we finally have something which we have lacked for a long time, but let's not disregard what made them succesful in the past despite missing what we now have, because that part will also be important to our future success. Life is about balance. Imagine a team with that first line and our past D+G? Wouldn't that be great? For now our D hss potential, but it's still seriously lacking. I'm pretty sure the next few months will make this readily apparent.

The Habs missed the playoffs 3 times after 2015.

Sergachev's trade hurt just as much as the Gomez trade...even more this year with 18 points in 18 games as a Defenseman, not sure Drouin as even put that kind of streak as a forward. He's now deadweight, and Sergachev is starting to get into the Norris discussions and might be for the next 10 years. This one is going to sting for a long time

Gomez was a gigantic mistake.......legendary bad.
Drouin's trade is on the same level of legendary bad

Agreed. Best part was watching both McDonagh and Serg win the Cup together.

 

[BargainBinSpecial]

When you think that people glorify Gainey and accuse Bergevin to be the worst Habs GM because he let going Markov and Radulov and traded Drouin for Sergachev ...it's so funny

Gainey had a certain prestige around the league but went completely bonkers, signing a bunch of smurfs. It was a notorious July 1st, that day, and one of the craziest UFA frenzies in Habs history. The team got beaten by Umberger the following year and Gainey called it quits a few years later, knowing very well he messed up, unlike BargainBin. He left behind 2 promising goalies, one who still plays but has bounced around the league, and 2 top Ds, and some complimentary forwards who were good but not elite.

 

[Tyson]

Gainey had a certain prestige around the league but went completely bonkers, signing a bunch of smurfs. It was a notorious July 1st, that day, and one of the craziest UFA frenzies in Habs history. The team got beaten by Umberger the following year and Gainey called it quits afterwards, knowing very well he messed up, unlike BargainBin.

He had 30 million of cap money and let Koivu walk. Gainey was also a trainwreck, vastly, vastly over-rated.

 

[CHwest]

They are part of trade talks because the fans finally realized that a proper rebuild was necessary. Ten years ago, that was out of the question. Price was struggling with addiction, I honestly don't see how Plekanec was better. He was an overhyped C. Gionta was today's Hoffman. Suzuki, Caufield, Dach, Dvorak, Hoffman, Anderson is actually quite better than Plekanec, DD, Pacces, Gally, Galchy, Cole.

On D, the current Habs don't have a Markov but Guhle, Harris, Matheson, Barron will likely make you forget. There is also Edmundson and Savard who can provide leadership for the youngsters.

Price was struggling with addiction 10 yrs ago? You are making it up as you go.

 

[BargainBinSpecial]

Price was struggling with addiction 10 yrs ago? You are making it up as you go.

Your long term memory has taken a hit. Price was having a blast back then, spotted in several nightclubs. Rumours were widespread and pictures were circulating. Many were wondering if he was truly the chosen one. He had one good season but before he seemed drunk out there on the ice.