Salary Cap: Marner Deal Discussion Part IV

[93LEAFS]

Ferris isn't wrong on the Matthews deal. Its the most favorable 2nd contract handed out in recent memory. It bought one UFA year, and was frontloaded as hell. Its a significantly better deal for Auston than the McDavid contract barring he doesn't suffer a career ending injury and can cash in at UFA. No reason Marner shouldn't expect the same deal. It sucks and will be a serious issue in team construction, but you can't let a player like Marner walk, just assuming you'll get Panarin. Leafs should have paid up last summer before letting him have a full year with JT. At most you are giving him a Draisaitl deal then.

Look, for whatever reasons, we have a culture, where guys aren't going to take discounts to stay. Whether that is not liking playing for Babcock, not liking Toronto, bad negotiations by Dubas, or just what other players on the team make, etc this is the reality we are in.

 

[Legion34]

That definitely plays a part. But McDavid at 12.5 for 8 vs Matthews at 11.5 for 5 and Marner at what? 10.5 for 6 has too much disparity between the contracts for us to just say we're in different times now.

I don't blame Ferris one bit. Matthews contract is rich as hell for what he's shown so far. 11.5 is a fine number but it should have been 7 years minimum. Marner and his agent are just trying to follow suit. Sky high $$ for as little term as possible.

Thing is. Matthews and mcdavid have the same agent. You don’t think they have heirarhchies. Like teams do?

Matty got what he deserved ball park. 14 percent x 5. Based on history.

Mcdavid is the golden goose for his agency

 

[93LEAFS]

Thing is. Matthews and mcdavid have the same agent. You don’t think they have heirarhchies. Like teams do?

Matty got what he deserved ball park. 14 percent x 5. Based on history.

Mcdavid is the golden goose for his agency

They don't have the same agent. McDavid was repped by Orr which was bought by Wasserman. Matthews is repped by Jud Moldaver who worked at CAA under Brisson, and then jumped to work for Wasserman. They are under the same agency family but aren't repped by the same person.

 

[Legion34]

What? It was July 2017 and everyone was well aware of the cap increases that Vegas would bring. The 75mil cap was already announced for 17/18 and everyone knew there would be a jump the following season once Vegas's income was factored in.

Even using 75mil (which was published cap over a month before signing) McDavid signed for 16.66% of the cap.

Matthews wanted 16.87%

He wanted more money, period. In this world, similar world.

Yes and RFAs were signing for 6-8 x 6-8 a year early.

It’s not happening now RFAs are all waiting Matthews is literally the only one who signed early

It’s a different world.

Keep in my mind they have the same agency. You don’t think there is a heirarcjy there?

 

[LaPlante94]

Ferris isn't wrong on the Matthews deal. Its the most favorable 2nd contract handed out in recent memory. It bought one UFA year, and was frontloaded as hell. Its a significantly better deal for Auston than the McDavid contract barring he doesn't suffer a career ending injury and can cash in at UFA. No reason Marner shouldn't expect the same deal. It sucks and will be a serious issue in team construction, but you can't let a player like Marner walk, just assuming you'll get Panarin. Leafs should have paid up last summer before letting him have a full year with JT. At most you are giving him a Draisaitl deal then.

Every superstar on every cup winning teams got a 5 year deal after their ELC so idk why people are still upset about term. Their 3rd contract is where they get the 8 year deal that takes them to about 34/35 years.

 

[Legion34]

They don't have the same agent. McDavid was repped by Orr which was bought by Wasserman. Matthews is repped by Jud Moldaver who worked at CAA under Brisson, and then jumped to work for Wasserman. They are under the same agency family but aren't repped by the same person.

Yes. Same agency.

They are still under the same umbrella

 

[Kiwi]

Ferris isn't wrong on the Matthews deal. Its the most favorable 2nd contract handed out in recent memory. It bought one UFA year, and was frontloaded as hell. Its a significantly better deal for Auston than the McDavid contract barring he doesn't suffer a career ending injury and can cash in at UFA. No reason Marner shouldn't expect the same deal. It sucks and will be a serious issue in team construction, but you can't let a player like Marner walk, just assuming you'll get Panarin. Leafs should have paid up last summer before letting him have a full year with JT. At most you are giving him a Draisaitl deal then.

Look, for whatever reasons, we have a culture, where guys aren't going to take discounts to stay. Whether that is not liking playing for Babcock, bad negotiations by Dubas, or just what other players on the team make, this is the reality we are in.

Ever heard of the term "if your in a hole stop digging"?

Just because you've ****** up the Matthews contract doesn't mean you should continue doing the same thing over and over again

If Marner wants to sign a 12.5M offersheet he's more than welcome to but if we even think about matching our entire management team should be fired on the spot, Marner is a brilliant player but he's not worth that contract and it's not even close

 

[Notsince67]

Here is the original quote. On the day that Matthews would have been happy, this so-called agent said that.

It was the truth.

 

[Jozay]

Matthews deal was rushed for some reason.

People keep saying 9.5, which is what Mitch is probably worth but theres no chance he's taking that. Rightfully so.

I think for 6 years, it would be in the high 10's.

12.5 is crazy high though, if he is stuck on that number I'd trade him.

 

[Warden of the North]

Ferris isn't wrong on the Matthews deal. Its the most favorable 2nd contract handed out in recent memory. It bought one UFA year, and was frontloaded as hell. Its a significantly better deal for Auston than the McDavid contract barring he doesn't suffer a career ending injury and can cash in at UFA. No reason Marner shouldn't expect the same deal. It sucks and will be a serious issue in team construction, but you can't let a player like Marner walk, just assuming you'll get Panarin. Leafs should have paid up last summer before letting him have a full year with JT. At most you are giving him a Draisaitl deal then.

Look, for whatever reasons, we have a culture, where guys aren't going to take discounts to stay. Whether that is not liking playing for Babcock, not liking Toronto, bad negotiations by Dubas, or just what other players on the team make, etc this is the reality we are in.

Im not convinced he was willing to sign a reasonable deal last summer. He knew what playing with JT was going to do to his numbers

 

[ShaneFalco]

Marner is my favorite player but if his team is asking for insane amounts ... buh bye

 

[Notsince67]

Settle for 10.5M×5?

That's a disgusting contract, I'd rather let his ass sit and holdout or trade him than offer him that contract

That is the contract that will be signed. Book it. It is a better deal that paying Nylander 7MM.

 

[Babcocks Marner]

Yes and RFAs were signing for 6-8 x 6-8 a year early.

It’s not happening now RFAs are all waiting Matthews is literally the only one who signed early

It’s a different world.

Keep in my mind they have the same agency. You don’t think there is a heirarcjy there?

It's not just RFA's........... UFAs are way over paid now. I expect a lockout tbh.. Skinner 9 mil.... **** off with that. Nylander looks like the new Mo/Kadri contract right now.

Hierarchy? Maybe... interesting theory. Like it. However, as I know many greedy agent types, I will stick with the thought that they will flease every last dollar possible.

 

[Babcocks Marner]

It's not just RFA's........... UFAs are way over paid now. I expect a lockout tbh.. Skinner 9 mil.... **** off with that. Nylander looks like the new Mo/Kadri contract right now.

Hierarchy? Maybe... interesting theory. Like it. However, as I know many greedy agent types, I will stick with the thought that they will flease every last dollar possible.

I should also add, much like Vegas, everyone knows the Seattle boost is coming.

 

[93LEAFS]

Ever heard of the term "if your in a hole stop digging"?

Just because you've ****** up the Matthews contract doesn't mean you should continue doing the same thing over and over again

If Marner wants to sign a 12.5M offersheet he's more than welcome to but if we even think about matching our entire management team should be fired on the spot, Marner is a brilliant player but he's not worth that contract and it's not even close

We have to match. Its unlikely the return will give us a player close to as valuable as Marner. Kessel worked out for Boston, but we don't know what team it is.

Now, should management be heavily questioned for letting this happen. Absolutely.

 

[93LEAFS]

Im not convinced he was willing to sign a reasonable deal last summer. He knew what playing with JT was going to do to his numbers

He was willing to do 8.5x8 or 9 at most. I've heard this from people who I would heavily trust on the manner. Dubas just believed he could get Marner at 7, Nylander at 6 and Matthews at 10 and it blew up in his face. He wanted an overpay for what he had done at the time, but in hindsight it would have been the right move.

 

[Warden of the North]

He was willing to do 8.5x8 or 9 at most. I've heard this from people who I would heavily trust on the manner. Dubas just believed he could get Marner at 7, Nylander at 6 and Matthews at 10 and it blew up in his face. He wanted an overpay for what he had done at the time, but in hindsight it would have been the right move.

Meh. We'll never know.

And as always, hindsight is perfect. Still, though, in a vacuum he probably is worth 12.5. I dont think hes wrong to ask that. It just sucks for us that our kids are all coming at a time when the kids are about to inherit the league. 5 years ago they'd of taken a "normal (undervalued)" 2nd contract and thanked the Leafs for it.

 

[Legion34]

It's not just RFA's........... UFAs are way over paid now. I expect a lockout tbh.. Skinner 9 mil.... **** off with that. Nylander looks like the new Mo/Kadri contract right now.

Hierarchy? Maybe... interesting theory. Like it. However, as I know many greedy agent types, I will stick with the thought that they will flease every last dollar possible.

Sure. But you keep your golden goose happy. And that’s Connor.

 

[TheBeastCoast]

Meh. We'll never know.

And as always, hindsight is perfect. Still, though, in a vacuum he probably is worth 12.5. I dont think hes wrong to ask that. It just sucks for us that our kids are all coming at a time when the kids are about to inherit the league. 5 years ago they'd of taken a "normal (undervalued)" 2nd contract and thanked the Leafs for it.

It is turning into the Leafs version of Carter and McGrady. I will be waiting for the group interviews with all the kids in 15-20 years talking about "how great it would have been if the band could have stayed together."

 

[Legion34]

He was willing to do 8.5x8 or 9 at most. I've heard this from people who I would heavily trust on the manner. Dubas just believed he could get Marner at 7, Nylander at 6 and Matthews at 10 and it blew up in his face. He wanted an overpay for what he had done at the time, but in hindsight it would have been the right move.

The same people who are mad about Matty getting 14% are the same that are mad that dubas didn’t make the 37th highest scorer the 3rd highest paid winger in the game

 

[Legion34]

Matthews deal was rushed for some reason.

People keep saying 9.5, which is what Mitch is probably worth but theres no chance he's taking that. Rightfully so.

I think for 6 years, it would be in the high 10's.

12.5 is crazy high though, if he is stuck on that number I'd trade him.

Well can you blame them. Marner is a winger. If he is asking for this. Imagine what a much better and more valuable player would ask for.

After this summer. Matthews and Nylander will look like a steal

 

[IPS]

I'm 100% fully in favor of telling Marrner to sign that offer sheet. 12.5 x 8? No f***ing chance buddy. You, Ferris and your father can piss off if you think you're entitled to a gargantuan overpayment.

All Dubas has to do is wait for Aho/Rantanen/Point. Marner's camp is putting mega heat to get dat overpayment before july 1st.

There's no offer sheet folks, it's a complete fabrication.

 

[Kiwi]

That is the contract that will be signed. Book it. It is a better deal that paying Nylander 7MM.

Not even close, if he signs a 10.5M×5 contract it's the 2nd worst RFA contract handed out in recent memory, to go with the 11.6M×5 atrocity we gave Matthews

We have to match. Its unlikely the return will give us a player close to as valuable as Marner. Kessel worked out for Boston, but we don't know what team it is.

Now, should management be heavily questioned for letting this happen. Absolutely.

No, we don't

If that's the situation we should take the picks or trade him before the offersheet comes in, handing out God awful RFA contracts year on year isn't an actual workable plan if you want to be competitive

 

[93LEAFS]

Matthews deal was rushed for some reason.

People keep saying 9.5, which is what Mitch is probably worth but theres no chance he's taking that. Rightfully so.

I think for 6 years, it would be in the high 10's.

12.5 is crazy high though, if he is stuck on that number I'd trade him.

Matthews was a huge threat for an offer sheet. Especially from a desperate Zona team. Due to their situation and desperation they may have given him a similar deal but for only 4 years. Leafs panicked.

 

[93LEAFS]

Not even close, if he signs a 10.5M×5 contract it's the 2nd worst RFA contract handed out in recent memory, to go with the 11.6M×5 atrocity we gave Matthews



No, we don't

If that's the situation we should take the picks or trade him before the offersheet comes in, handing out God awful RFA contracts year on year isn't an actual workable plan if you want to be competitive

Letting your top players go isn't a workable plan either.