Prospect Info: Marlies & Prospect Discussion

[NJG]

I'm surprised the Leafs have never called up and given Logan Shaw a chance on the third or fourth line. I know it's the AHL but he always puts up good numbers and he's always leading the team in goals and points.

 

[Fogelhund]

points)I'm surprised the Leafs have never called up and given Logan Shaw a chance on the third or fourth line. I know it's the AHL but he always puts up good numbers and he's always leading the team in goals and points.

He's on an AHL contract, not a NHL one. He's also 31, and played plenty in the NHL (232 games, 39 points) , to show what he can do. He's really just a good AHL guy, and there is nothing wrong with that at all.

 

[SprDaVE]

Marlies have been adding a decent contingency of players for next season.

 

[SprDaVE]

 

[Thornbury]

Marlies have been adding a decent contingency of players for next season.

Interesting case, big guy - 6'3, 202 lbs - RHD who will be 25 yrs old when next season starts, and is just now graduating from Boston College. Late bloomer? We'll see.

 

[SprDaVE]

Pretty great season from AA. I hope he gets a full KHL season next year, unless the Leafs can somehow bring him over.

 

[Fogelhund]

Another post to add to @SprDaVE

""

 

[SprDaVE]

Interesting case, big guy - 6'3, 202 lbs - RHD who will be 25 yrs old when next season starts, and is just now graduating from Boston College. Late bloomer? We'll see.

He's a LHD but your point still stands.

 

[Fogelhund]

Marlies have been adding a decent contingency of players for next season.

""

Jacob Bengtsson at eliteprospects.com

Eliteprospects.com hockey player profile of Jacob Bengtsson, 1999-05-08 Stockholm, SWE Sweden. Most recently in the NCAA with Boston College. Complete player biography and stats.

www.eliteprospects.com

Hobey Baker nominee in 2022.

There is some upside there. Good to ink some D to contracts, and get more bodies in the system.

 

[Thornbury]

""

Jacob Bengtsson at eliteprospects.com

Eliteprospects.com hockey player profile of Jacob Bengtsson, 1999-05-08 Stockholm, SWE Sweden. Most recently in the NCAA with Boston College. Complete player biography and stats.

www.eliteprospects.com

Hobey Baker nominee in 2022.

There is some upside there. Good to ink some D to contracts, and get more bodies in the system.

Treliving is clearly employing a different philosophy for our D than Kyle. Some big bodies joinng the system

 

[Twine Tickler]

Treliving is clearly employing a different philosophy for our D than Kyle. Some big bodies joinng the system

I feel like that was an aspect of Kyle's tenure that I can say he didn't do very well. His defensive signings from college and Europe profiled far too closely to areas of organizational strength. Guys like Mikko Lehtonon, Joey Duszak, Teemu Kivihalme, Matt Helickson...etc were never going to make it with our big club no matter how good they performed at the minor league level. They didn't fill the role we require.

By no means do I think guys Jacob Bengtsson, Nick Mattenen or Cade Weber are shoo in's for NHL time, but they at least profile out to be players that could fill roles.

You look at Kristens Rubins as a prime example of a player who was able to fill a void, albeit very temporarily before a guy like Joey Duszak ever got a sniff, despite having substantially worse numbers in the A.

Who knows what will come from Jacob and the other signees. Most likely they will be career minor leaguers. But at the very least we are trying to stock pile the prospective defensmen in our organization that profile out to be the very defensemen we always seem to pay 2nd rounders for each deadline.

And before anyone states it, I am aware of the difference between AHL and 2 way deals. We do not own these AHL signed players. But having them in our system will always give us the upper hand on signing them should they earn a 2 way deal

 

[WTFMAN99]

I feel like that was an aspect of Kyle's tenure that I can say he didn't do very well. His defensive signings from college and Europe profiled far too closely to areas of organizational strength. Guys like Mikko Lehtonon, Joey Duszak, Teemu Kivihalme, Matt Helickson...etc were never going to make it with our big club no matter how good they performed at the minor league level. They didn't fill the role we require.

By no means do I think guys Jacob Bengtsson, Nick Mattenen or Cade Weber are shoo in's for NHL time, but they at least profile out to be players that could fill roles.

You look at Kristens Rubins as a prime example of a player who was able to fill a void, albeit very temporarily before a guy like Joey Duszak ever got a sniff, despite having substantially worse numbers in the A.

Who knows what will come from Jacob and the other signees. Most likely they will be career minor leaguers. But at the very least we are trying to stock pile the prospective defensmen in our organization that profile out to be the very defensemen we always seem to pay 2nd rounders for each deadline.

And before anyone states it, I am aware of the difference between AHL and 2 way deals. We do not own these AHL signed players. But having them in our system will always give us the upper hand on signing them should they earn a 2 way deal

Handshake deal if the player is doing well enough, you probably give the Leafs the first chance to do the ELC if another team approaches the agent about an ELC.

 

[SprDaVE]

I'm surprised the Leafs have never called up and given Logan Shaw a chance on the third or fourth line. I know it's the AHL but he always puts up good numbers and he's always leading the team in goals and points.

He's on an AHL contract, so they can't just call him up unless they sign him to a NHL deal.

They gave him a big AHL contract to be their captain and to stick there for awhile.

 

[SprDaVE]

Pretty great season from AA. I hope he gets a full KHL season next year, unless the Leafs can somehow bring him over.

Another post to add to @SprDaVE

""

He also won the MVP of the Petrov Cup.

 

[WTFMAN99]

He also won the MVP of the Petrov Cup.

I think we have him on an ELC....I wonder if they would rotate AA and Hildeby next year with possibilities for call up if doing well? Similar to when the Leafs recalled a young Woll when Murray went down.

 

[SprDaVE]

I think we have him on an ELC....I wonder if they would rotate AA and Hildeby next year with possibilities for call up if doing well? Similar to when the Leafs recalled a young Woll when Murray went down.

You're absolutely right, he is signed to an ELC. I completely forgot.

Still possible he gets loaned back to the KHL, but seems a lot more likely he's joining the Marlies/Leafs after already completing a full year on loan. Could be an interesting year with Hildeby, AA and Peksa.

 

[WTFMAN99]

You're absolutely right, he is signed to an ELC. I completely forgot.

Still possible he gets loaned back to the KHL, but seems a lot more likely he's joining the Marlies/Leafs after already completing a full year on loan. Could be an interesting year with Hildeby, AA and Peksa.

I'd put Peksa firmly behind AA and Hildeby on the depth chart, AA could go back to KHL on a loan but seems like he's coming to NA, ditto Grebyonkin.

 

[Kiwi]

""

Jacob Bengtsson at eliteprospects.com

Eliteprospects.com hockey player profile of Jacob Bengtsson, 1999-05-08 Stockholm, SWE Sweden. Most recently in the NCAA with Boston College. Complete player biography and stats.

www.eliteprospects.com

Hobey Baker nominee in 2022.

There is some upside there. Good to ink some D to contracts, and get more bodies in the system.

Big boy LD strong defensively
I wonder if he's paired with Neimela if he works out?

 

[aingefan]

Big boy LD strong defensively
I wonder if he's paired with Neimela if he works out?

I figure that’s Cade Webber’s job to lose.

 

[SprDaVE]

Big boy LD strong defensively
I wonder if he's paired with Neimela if he works out?

I figure that’s Cade Webber’s job to lose.

Hard to see an AHL contract player getting top AHL minutes off the bat. I would agree that Webber is way ahead of him in the depth chart. There's a lot of time between now and 2024-2025 so we'll see how things morph and change.

Kokkonen and Rifai also have contracts for next season, it'll depend how their training camps go for the Leafs.

 

[notbias]

I feel like that was an aspect of Kyle's tenure that I can say he didn't do very well. His defensive signings from college and Europe profiled far too closely to areas of organizational strength. Guys like Mikko Lehtonon, Joey Duszak, Teemu Kivihalme, Matt Helickson...etc were never going to make it with our big club no matter how good they performed at the minor league level. They didn't fill the role we require.

By no means do I think guys Jacob Bengtsson, Nick Mattenen or Cade Weber are shoo in's for NHL time, but they at least profile out to be players that could fill roles.

You look at Kristens Rubins as a prime example of a player who was able to fill a void, albeit very temporarily before a guy like Joey Duszak ever got a sniff, despite having substantially worse numbers in the A.

Who knows what will come from Jacob and the other signees. Most likely they will be career minor leaguers. But at the very least we are trying to stock pile the prospective defensmen in our organization that profile out to be the very defensemen we always seem to pay 2nd rounders for each deadline.

And before anyone states it, I am aware of the difference between AHL and 2 way deals. We do not own these AHL signed players. But having them in our system will always give us the upper hand on signing them should they earn a 2 way deal

You can only have so many #6 D and I think they are relatively easy to sign or trade for (we have 4-5 right now)...

I don't think the philosophy of signing D with a high upside is bad, and I think that is generally smaller D and not big D as size is something that is coveted usually even if the skill is not there.

No issues with recent signings, I just think that this is what the philosophy was before.

 

[Stephen]

I feel like that was an aspect of Kyle's tenure that I can say he didn't do very well. His defensive signings from college and Europe profiled far too closely to areas of organizational strength. Guys like Mikko Lehtonon, Joey Duszak, Teemu Kivihalme, Matt Helickson...etc were never going to make it with our big club no matter how good they performed at the minor league level. They didn't fill the role we require.

By no means do I think guys Jacob Bengtsson, Nick Mattenen or Cade Weber are shoo in's for NHL time, but they at least profile out to be players that could fill roles.

You look at Kristens Rubins as a prime example of a player who was able to fill a void, albeit very temporarily before a guy like Joey Duszak ever got a sniff, despite having substantially worse numbers in the A.

Who knows what will come from Jacob and the other signees. Most likely they will be career minor leaguers. But at the very least we are trying to stock pile the prospective defensmen in our organization that profile out to be the very defensemen we always seem to pay 2nd rounders for each deadline.

And before anyone states it, I am aware of the difference between AHL and 2 way deals. We do not own these AHL signed players. But having them in our system will always give us the upper hand on signing them should they earn a 2 way deal

The way I think about small skilled D and a prospect pipeline is roughly like this:

One elite Quinn Hughes and 5x Nikia Zadorov's on a blueline works a lot better than 6x Matt Gryzelck's.

I have all the time in the world for skill in small packages, but it's conditioned on the idea that it has to be elite, game changing and worth your time. And you need adequate protection so the other chores are done and that handful of elite talent in small packages have a safe and comfortable working environment. Ratios are negotiable and a simplification.

 

[LaPlante94]

Idk if it was posted but just saw that Hughes confirmed last week that he is going back to Michigan next year. Was hoping we'd get him but I guess there's always next year.

 

[Twine Tickler]

You can only have so many #6 D and I think they are relatively easy to sign or trade for (we have 4-5 right now)...

I don't think the philosophy of signing D with a high upside is bad, and I think that is generally smaller D and not big D as size is something that is coveted usually even if the skill is not there.

No issues with recent signings, I just think that this is what the philosophy was before.

I have no issues with signing small skill. I do think it was too much of a focus in the Dubas era, especially because we always drafted that same profile. That said, I have always said that you draft skill and acquire size. Of course, if you have a guy like Matt Knies who has it all you really make an effort to draft a player like that. But those type of players are not historically available where we tend to have draft selections.

As great of a story as Nick Mattenen's potential return to NA hockey may be, it's not exactly the pick you look back on and revere as a major success story. He was drafted almost exclusively for his physical profile. Sure he had some skill, but he was drafted largely because he was 6'05 and the Mark Hunter/London Knights connection. 8 years, 7 teams, and releasing his draft rights later and he is now back in our system. We could have been in the exact same spot had we not selected him in the first place.

I personally would rather swing an miss on a skilled Dimitry Ovchinikov over the bigger/less skilled Fedor Gordeev.

point being, as we have seen this "signing season", those big, less skilled, less offensive, under scouted defensemen are always available this time of year. No sense wasting too many draft picks on that archetype of player IMO.

 

[horner]

I have no issues with signing small skill. I do think it was too much of a focus in the Dubas era, especially because we always drafted that same profile. That said, I have always said that you draft skill and acquire size. Of course, if you have a guy like Matt Knies who has it all you really make an effort to draft a player like that. But those type of players are not historically available where we tend to have draft selections.

As great of a story as Nick Mattenen's potential return to NA hockey may be, it's not exactly the pick you look back on and revere as a major success story. He was drafted almost exclusively for his physical profile. Sure he had some skill, but he was drafted largely because he was 6'05 and the Mark Hunter/London Knights connection. 8 years, 7 teams, and releasing his draft rights later and he is now back in our system. We could have been in the exact same spot had we not selected him in the first place.

I personally would rather swing an miss on a skilled Dimitry Ovchinikov over the bigger/less skilled Fedor Gordeev.

point being, as we have seen this "signing season", those big, less skilled, less offensive, under scouted defensemen are always available this time of year. No sense wasting too many draft picks on that archetype of player IMO.

Joshua Dakota who we drafted
Vs
Ovchinikov
Dakota

Your starting to see alot more big prospects
Can skate and have skill 6'2
" + forwards and Defenceman
This year defencemen in our range

Elick
Emery
Skahan
Brunicke

I don't mind drafting smaller players but they need to skate like the wind and have a high compete level.
On our team They need to be really good defensivltnbecause they will be playing on the 3rd or 4th lines.

Dewar is a good example