Salary Cap: Marleau's 3rd Year

[BoredBrandonPridham]

If Marleau stays for the final year, I still think we can do long terms for the kids and keep rolling, but that year will be tight, we may have to find room on the 4th line, or on D (e.g., Gardiner, or a cheap and potentially young replacement hainsey which would... hurt).

But, one part of me thinks that Marleau just isn't going to want to play a year making $1.5m. There could be an agreement there.

 

[SHANNYPLAN]

Would look pretty bad if we get rid of a Future Hall of Fame candidate who came here to win when we’re on the verge of contention...

Not sure how many veterans would be stupid enough to sign here after that

 

[Boutette]

Demoted (= downwards) and top line (= upwards).

So Hyman is being demoted upwards while Marleau is being promoted downwards in your opinion.

You are deliberately and erroneously misquoting me. I never said what you are suggesting nor suggested in any way that my opinion was Marleau is being demoted. Also, it is pure speculation to claim to know what management thinks. Unless you are Leafs management, your opinion is also pure speculation.

 

[Boutette]

Would look pretty bad if we get rid of a Future Hall of Fame candidate who came here to win when we’re on the verge of contention...

Not sure how many veterans would be stupid enough to sign here after that

Teams do that all the time with aging overpaid players, should they think that said player is in the way of getting past the verge and actually being contenders. Its called respecting the fact that the NHL has a hard cap. No contender in the league can afford to overpay players in general because of that cap, which is not going to go away because you want a Future Hall of Famer to be paid a premium for his legacy.

How many near-retirement age NHL veterans in the league would be willing to be paid $19 million dollars for effectively 2 years of work. My guess would be more than a few.

You however, seem to be in the group of people who think its more important to be on the verge of a contender than actually be a contender, because that is very well what the $6+ million in cap space Marleau will be eating next year will entail. But I guess to some people Hockey isn't a team sport, and the goal isn't the Stanley Cup. Its about their team overpaying yesterday's all stars so they can buy a Leaf's jersey with their hero's name on the back.

 

[Joey Hoser]

Only scenarios that Marleau won't be on the roster for his final year are a) Leafs win the Cup this year b) career ending injury.
You should count on him playing next year.

I would add one remote possibility, which could be that Marleau simply decided awhile ago that he doesn't want to play past 40, and the third year is just some bonus salary he can claim in the fall of '19 before retiring.

Not hard to believe, but I am totally making that up. And as Mess said, if the Leafs don't win this year, Marleau surely will want another crack at it.

Really that third year isn't much of a problem anyway. Everything we have now fits in, just barely, but it does.

 

[Joey Hoser]

Would look pretty bad if we get rid of a Future Hall of Fame candidate who came here to win when we’re on the verge of contention...

Not sure how many veterans would be stupid enough to sign here after that

People said that about Robidas Island.

It scared away Filpula, who declined a trade here.

It didn't stop us from signing Tavares.

Workin' out so far.

It will scare away questionable players who might not be able to hack it. It will encourage those who can and want to win.

 

[kb]

Teams do that all the time with aging overpaid players, should they think that said player is in the way of getting past the verge and actually being contenders. Its called respecting the fact that the NHL has a hard cap. No contender in the league can afford to overpay players in general because of that cap, which is not going to go away because you want a Future Hall of Famer to be paid a premium for his legacy.

How many near-retirement age NHL veterans in the league would be willing to be paid $19 million dollars for effectively 2 years of work. My guess would be more than a few.

You however, seem to be in the group of people who think its more important to be on the verge of a contender than actually be a contender, because that is very well what the $6+ million in cap space Marleau will be eating next year will entail. But I guess to some people Hockey isn't a team sport, and the goal isn't the Stanley Cup. Its about their team overpaying yesterday's all stars so they can buy a Leaf's jersey with their hero's name on the back.

And you seem to think that Marleau doesn't hold all the cards here....

 

[moon111]

Actually, it's Hyman whose been promoted to the top line, to play alongside Tavares and Marner. Or are you one of those people who think Matthews and Nylander, at the moment are superior to Tavares and Marner?

Well maybe Leivo pumps out at his 3.67pts/60 minute pace of `16-17, Kadri hits `12-13 pace of 3.43 pts/60, and Ennis hit his `09-10 pace of 3.52pts/60. The line becomes the highest scoring on the team.

 

[Nylanderthal]

Couldn’t they “Orpik” him by trading him after July 1 to a floor team with another asset for a pick then have them buy his last year and then resign him for a mill or so?
Brown/Carrick/prospect + Marleau for a mid round pick

 

[Buds17]

Couldn’t they “Orpik” him by trading him after July 1 to a floor team with another asset for a pick then have them buy his last year and then resign him for a mill or so?
Brown/Carrick/prospect + Marleau for a mid round pick

Unlikely. Marleau has a NMC, whereas Orpik didn't. Marleau is much more of an offensive oriented player in comparison to Orpik. Marleau's production (and ability to stay injury free) would probably both have to take a substantial dip for his salary to decrease by that much.

 

[selltrade]

Simple.. Jake G isnt resigned, they promote a kid D-man i.e. Borgman / Rosen and the saving there will take care of any problems

 

[hector morrison]

People said that about Robidas Island.

It scared away Filpula, who declined a trade here.

It didn't stop us from signing Tavares.

Workin' out so far.

It will scare away questionable players who might not be able to hack it. It will encourage those who can and want to win.

Just for clarity sake...If the Leafs don't win the cup this year,then Paddy should waive his NMC?

 

[hector morrison]

Simple.. Jake G isnt resigned, they promote a kid D-man i.e. Borgman / Rosen and the saving there will take care of any problems

Would rather Jake be traded,but this is ok as well!

 

[Joey Hoser]

Just for clarity sake...If the Leafs don't win the cup this year,then Paddy should waive his NMC?

Ummm... No.

 

[hector morrison]

Ummm... No.

That's what I thought...as another poster mentioned,Marleau is in control of his decisions. Would be surprised he goes anywhere or retires with money on the table! I also agree that it would be bad optics for future vets of his stature,if the Leafs tried to even politely ask him to waive.

 

[Boutette]

Ummm... No.

Sure. Because the leafs will be even more likely to win the cup with a defense that has to do without one decent top pair RD and one decent second pair LD, because that's what the team will have to let go if like you they are hell bent on retaining the Marleau without removing other important and more importantly *young and comparatively inexpensive* pieces of the team's forward squad in order to keep an expensive 40 year old for just one solitary season.

Either way, the reduction in talent isn't going to make a Stanley Cup easier to achieve with his bloated cap cost still on the books.

 

[WTFMAN99]

I see it being a similar situation to Martin. Leafs pay that bonus out, and a team takes him off our hands afterwards. I am assuming there was some kind of handshake on this.

 

[Joey Hoser]

Sure. Because the leafs will be even more likely to win the cup with a defense that has to do without one decent top pair RD and one decent second pair LD, because that's what the team will have to let go if like you they are hell bent on retaining the Marleau without removing other important and more importantly *young and comparatively inexpensive* pieces of the team's forward squad in order to keep an expensive 40 year old for just one solitary season.

Either way, the reduction in talent isn't going to make a Stanley Cup easier to achieve with his bloated cap cost still on the books.

I'm not "hell bent" on keeping Marleau for the third year. Not sure where you got that from. I'd prefer it if we didn't have the third year, but the Leafs don't have a lot of choice here, and it's not a catastrophe.

And the Leafs don't have to sacrifice anything to keep everyone they have. Cap friendly is a thing, you can look at it, it's all fine.

 

[kb]

Sure. Because the leafs will be even more likely to win the cup with a defense that has to do without one decent top pair RD and one decent second pair LD, because that's what the team will have to let go if like you they are hell bent on retaining the Marleau without removing other important and more importantly *young and comparatively inexpensive* pieces of the team's forward squad in order to keep an expensive 40 year old for just one solitary season.

Either way, the reduction in talent isn't going to make a Stanley Cup easier to achieve with his bloated cap cost still on the books.

You still totally ignored that Marleau is in control of his own destiny and holds all the cards. So this post is irrelevant and pointless. Marleau will do what Marleau will do, and there is not one thing the Leafs can do about it. It's not necessarily about people wanting him to stay. It is about people understanding the reality here, and not tilting at windmills.

 

[Boutette]

I'm not "hell bent" on keeping Marleau for the third year. Not sure where you got that from. I'd prefer it if we didn't have the third year, but the Leafs don't have a lot of choice here, and it's not a catastrophe.

And the Leafs don't have to sacrifice anything to keep everyone they have. Cap friendly is a thing, you can look at it, it's all fine.

I've been to Cap Friendly. It states the Leafs have $30mil available for 2019-2020. Thats before they have to sign Matthews, Nylander and Marner (25mil likely hit), not to mention Kapananen, Johnsson, Carrick, Lievo, Lindholm, a back up goaltender and all the other players they will need to fill out the roster. Sure, the cap may rise and there is Horton's IR, but that's also minus Gardiner and Hainsey. I'm not saying its a catastrophe, the team is still very good. I'm just pointing out looking at those deficits the team, with Marleau's bloated cap hit, does not look like a better team that this year's team. Does it to you, taking out the likes of Hainsey and Gardiner and being unable to add experienced defense because of Marleau's hit, or through jettisoning 6 mil worth of young forwards in order to keep Marleau for a year? Please explain how.

 

[Boutette]

You still totally ignored that Marleau is in control of his own destiny and holds all the cards. So this post is irrelevant and pointless. Marleau will do what Marleau will do, and there is not one thing the Leafs can do about it. It's not necessarily about people wanting him to stay. It is about people understanding the reality here, and not tilting at windmills.

Sure, Marleau can say 'Hell no I won't go.' That worked out wonderfully for the Muskoka 5, didn't it? You say he has all the cards? Sure he does, except the most important one for a player who wants to play. The leafs are perfectly free to sit him in the pressbox, especially if his age starts to show a decline as it may. Honestly, he's got as good a chance to win the cup if he agrees to be traded to a lesser team. For example, plenty of players at every trade deadline get moved from bad teams to contenders who did better than the Leafs this past year. Nash certainly made it further into the playoffs than Marleau did, as did Statsny, Tatar, Brassard etc. Does Marleau agree to a deal after he's made 90% of his money from the team. Maybe, maybe not. Does him staying make the Leafs in 2019-2020 a better team than without him, considering they won't be able to easily replace Gardiner and Hainsey with his cap hit on the books? Probably not. Does playing with a bad team hinder his chances of playing with a contender when that time comes around. No, no it doesn't, not at all. Given where that cap hit is going to be needed to push them over the top. Sure he will do what he will do. And so will Leafs management if they think what they are doing will make their team a better team. And we are all allowed to speculate on that, because this is what these forums are for.

 

[Eb]

I want him to stay next year.

Next year we will be a true cup contender. I would love to see Marleau win.

 

[Eb]

Couldn’t they “Orpik” him by trading him after July 1 to a floor team with another asset for a pick then have them buy his last year and then resign him for a mill or so?
Brown/Carrick/prospect + Marleau for a mid round pick

Didn't think of this lol. Would be very cheeky.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Simple.. Jake G isnt resigned, they promote a kid D-man i.e. Borgman / Rosen and the saving there will take care of any problems

Removing Gardiner from our team takes care of our problems?

Interesting perspective.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Sure, Marleau can say 'Hell no I won't go.' That worked out wonderfully for the Muskoka 5, didn't it? You say he has all the cards? Sure he does, except the most important one for a player who wants to play. The leafs are perfectly free to sit him in the pressbox, especially if his age starts to show a decline as it may. Honestly, he's got as good a chance to win the cup if he agrees to be traded to a lesser team. For example, plenty of players at every trade deadline get moved from bad teams to contenders who did better than the Leafs this past year. Nash certainly made it further into the playoffs than Marleau did, as did Statsny, Tatar, Brassard etc. Does Marleau agree to a deal after he's made 90% of his money from the team. Maybe, maybe not. Does him staying make the Leafs in 2019-2020 a better team than without him, considering they won't be able to easily replace Gardiner and Hainsey with his cap hit on the books? Probably not. Does playing with a bad team hinder his chances of playing with a contender when that time comes around. No, no it doesn't, not at all. Given where that cap hit is going to be needed to push them over the top. Sure he will do what he will do. And so will Leafs management if they think what they are doing will make their team a better team. And we are all allowed to speculate on that, because this is what these forums are for.

Awesome post!