Waived: Markstrom on Waivers (UPD: Clears)

[arsmaster*]

Yep.

And good to see Benning actually make tough choices expeditiously.

The choice wasn't tough. Markstrom was the 4th best goalie in camp. Sending him down was easy.

 

[denkiteki]

We may have to add because the draft is deeper, but I consider Lacks value to be similar to Schneider's if we are out into a position where we must deal him. Schneider got us a 9th, but should have got us more. The fact that he got a lower return because of Gillis's debotchery probably comes close to mitigating the difference in the draft's pedigree. If not entirely, I could conceivably see us adding a small piece - in the range of Hansen or something like that.

So, if Lack plays well enough to force a trade in order to better manage our assets, do you consider trading Lack(+) for, say the #9 for all intents and purposes? What if the alternative is keeping Lack and trading Miller for a smaller return? After seeing Luongo, Keeler, and Garrison trade in their various limitations, I will absolutely not acquiesce to the notion that Miller will be impossible to trade (unless he goes STL on us, which is an outlier, in my opinion).

Keep in mind, again, that this is not Gillis handling our goalie situation. Benning's track record, to date, indicates that he will not hesitate to get it done. He will not sit on a controversy. He will deal with it and move on. That alone is an asset for this team.

For the record, I don't want Lack traded specifically. I want what's best for the team. If that is trading Miller for the lesser return, while keeping Lack, then I would be all for it. But the way I see it, we might have this Miller-Lack tandem for a bulk of this year, if not the whole thing... But I do not see this carrying on much longer than this seasons deadline or subsequent draft. We may go into the playoffs with this tandem, boosting their value in the off season, or we may sell one at the draft as we miss the show. Either way, I think we gained an asset in Miller, whether the one that is liquidated is him or Lack; and I think that asset will be liquidated before next year's training camp.

The only way this can turn out badly for us is if one of them (or both) really sucks.

You got to remember you're talking about goalies... there's only 30 starters in the league meaning there needs to be 1 of 30 teams looking for an upgrade in net. Of course there generally will always be a few but guess what, those few are also always the ones that are generally not making the playoffs or at least having trouble getting in. Contenders generally have their goalie situation solved and you could argue that was the case for STL but they decided to take a gamble on Miller (and of course that failed).

That limits the number of teams Miller can go to and then you add in the fact Miller has a NTC with 5 team list. What are the odds Miller will list 5 teams that are not contending for a cup and need a goalie? The odds of that probably are pretty low. If Miller loses his #1 job here or at least force us to trade him, he probably doesn't want to go through a rebuild meaning he'll want to be on a contender and win (since he hasn't won a cup yet).

We were able to trade Luongo because there's a fit for him. Florida was a basement team but Luongo's home is there and he wanted to go there. He has a fan base in Florida and they needed a long term goalie so it was a fit. Even then, the actual return we got (at least after Markstrom cleared waivers) seems to be a 3rd/4th line player. That isn't exactly huge returns for a #1 goalie on a bad contract.

If Lack can get a high/mid 1st round pick, i would much rather trade him. We have 3 other goalies in the system right now (not counting Demko since he's going NCAA route, he isn't under contract and probably won't be for 4 years) who seem close to or ready for the NHL (in case of Markstrom with NHL experience). I still don't know how Benning got Markstrom to clear waivers and why no team took a flyer on him but for whatever reason, i guess every other GM are convinced he's a bust already. Maybe with something to prove, Markstrom will regain the title as best goalie not in the NHL...

 

[Just A Bit Outside]

You got to remember you're talking about goalies... there's only 30 starters in the league meaning there needs to be 1 of 30 teams looking for an upgrade in net. Of course there generally will always be a few but guess what, those few are also always the ones that are generally not making the playoffs or at least having trouble getting in. Contenders generally have their goalie situation solved and you could argue that was the case for STL but they decided to take a gamble on Miller (and of course that failed).

That limits the number of teams Miller can go to and then you add in the fact Miller has a NTC with 5 team list. What are the odds Miller will list 5 teams that are not contending for a cup and need a goalie? The odds of that probably are pretty low. If Miller loses his #1 job here or at least force us to trade him, he probably doesn't want to go through a rebuild meaning he'll want to be on a contender and win (since he hasn't won a cup yet).

We were able to trade Luongo because there's a fit for him. Florida was a basement team but Luongo's home is there and he wanted to go there. He has a fan base in Florida and they needed a long term goalie so it was a fit. Even then, the actual return we got (at least after Markstrom cleared waivers) seems to be a 3rd/4th line player. That isn't exactly huge returns for a #1 goalie on a bad contract.

If Lack can get a high/mid 1st round pick, i would much rather trade him. We have 3 other goalies in the system right now (not counting Demko since he's going NCAA route, he isn't under contract and probably won't be for 4 years) who seem close to or ready for the NHL (in case of Markstrom with NHL experience). I still don't know how Benning got Markstrom to clear waivers and why no team took a flyer on him but for whatever reason, i guess every other GM are convinced he's a bust already. Maybe with something to prove, Markstrom will regain the title as best goalie not in the NHL...

If Lack gets you a 1st rounder in the upcoming draft, Benning would be an idiot not to do that deal.

 

[Jimson Hogarth*]

If Lack could fetch a 2015 first rounder I'm sure he'd already be out the door.

 

[denkiteki]

If Lack gets you a 1st rounder in the upcoming draft, Benning would be an idiot not to do that deal.

If Lack could fetch a 2015 first rounder I'm sure he'd already be out the door.

That's what i'm thinking... i would even consider a late 1st or early 2nd if we didn't waive Markstrom (i.e. didn't know if he'll clear, have 3 goalies). Now with Markstrom in Utica, there is less pressure for the move so Lack's value might have interested slightly (less leverage from opposing GMs).

 

[alternate]

Why? Lack is the best of all of them. Why in the world would you trade him for a 2nd?

Because we have a glut at the position and options for the short, intermediate and long term. If Lack finishes his contract here, we likely lose him for nothing as I don't see him re-signing unless Miller has already transitioned to a back up role. Lack is also the only tradeable option with any potential value (whether we like it or not, Miller isn't being dealt this year or next).

If we can get a top 50 pick for an asset we acquired for nothing and at a position where we've got too many bodies to fit n van + uti, it's a good move imo. Lack might be the best of the group, but he's also going to be the hardest to keep long term.

We could trade him at the deadline or draft as well, but that would cost Cannata a year of developing in our system, potentially derailing his progression. Benning seems to like to address issues quickly even if it costs a bit of value, so I can see him taking a potential top 50 pick and moving on. Would replace the pick used to acquire Demko, our next"goalie of the future. "

 

[604]

If Lack gets you a 1st rounder in the upcoming draft, Benning would be an idiot not to do that deal.

Yep, Lack doesn't have anywhere near that kind of value.

The idea what Lack = Schneider is insane.

Schneider put up a top 5 save% three years in a row before being traded while Lack hasn't managed to finished 30th among goalies who count.

If Lack somehow puts up a .925 or better save% over 25+ games, he might have a value in the same neighbourhood as Schneider's (but less since Schneider did it 3 times before being traded) but at that point, you don't trade Lack because you have a potential franchise goalie...you trade Miller.

 

[thepoeticgoblin]

The choice wasn't tough. Markstrom was the 4th best goalie in camp. Sending him down was easy.

That's weird considering the only game he played was crowned the best performer by Vancouver's website and the fact that it was said that Markstrom was performing well in camp, which made them send him down now as it was deemed less likely he'd be claimed now than deeper into preseason when the injuries come.

https://twitter.com/renlavoietva/status/515936211090030593

&

"standout Canucks were Jakob Markstrom (he kept Vancouver in the game while being outshot 13-2 early), Nick Bonino (scored mid-3rd period) and Nicklas Jensen (scored late 3rd period)." -> http://canucks.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=731685

Add that to the countless times beat writers like Kevin Woodley have claimed Rollie and other NHL goalie coaches remain impressed/intrigued by Marky.

And yes, he'd be packing if the right trade offer came in but him being sent down already was asset management rather than based om performance.

 

[The Listening]

Yep, Lack doesn't have anywhere near that kind of value.

The idea what Lack = Schneider is insane.

Schneider put up a top 5 save% three years in a row before being traded while Lack hasn't managed to finished 30th among goalies who count.

If Lack somehow puts up a .925 or better save% over 25+ games, he might have a value in the same neighbourhood as Schneider's (but less since Schneider did it 3 times before being traded) but at that point, you don't trade Lack because you have a potential franchise goalie...you trade Miller.

Such a shame that Gillis moved potentially the next great goaltender and kept Lack. Schneider had amazing stats, and Gillis was somehow able to look past it and move him.

 

[Just A Bit Outside]

Such a shame that Gillis moved potentially the next great goaltender and kept Lack. Schneider had amazing stats, and Gillis was somehow able to look past it and move him.

Think it had to do more with Gillis trying to be the "smartest guy in the room".

I'm of the belief that he thought he could maximize his assets by trading Schneider for a Top 10 pick in a deep draft to restock the cupboards while keeping Luongo to provide quality goal-tending while the team was still a contender.

Didn't work out that way.

Hindsight says he should have just sucked it up and traded Lu for the picks and kept Schneider.

However, he was stubborn and that's just not his style.

 

[Tobi Wan Kenobi]

The choice wasn't tough. Markstrom was the 4th best goalie in camp. Sending him down was easy.

lol what are you talking about??? Melanson was extremely pleased with the work that he did in the summer. From the reports he put in an outstanding performance in Stockton. That's part of the reason why they didn't play him, they didn't want teams to realize the improvements he's made. Sending him down was not easy.

 

[arsmaster*]

lol what are you talking about??? Melanson was extremely pleased with the work that he did in the summer. From the reports he put in an outstanding performance in Stockton. That's part of the reason why they didn't play him, they didn't want teams to realize the improvements he's made. Sending him down was not easy.

If he was that good they would have kept him up.

Melanson can be pleased all he'd like. Goalie coaches love toolsy goalies, especially at that size.

The decision to send him down was easy IMO. He wasn't going to beat out Lack or Miller, hence they choose to send him down.

That's an easy decision. Keep him up and have him not play or send him down to play. Easy.

Sorry if I don't take much credence in half a sentence calling him a standout. Looks like the standouts were the only guys to factor into the score sheet.