Super Cake
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- Jun 24, 2013
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I do think Zetterberg has a slight edge over Alfredsson when it comes to career due to the fact that Zetterberg has a cup.
Player Discussion Mark Stone | "Insanely Controversial" Edition
- Thread starter Super Cake
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I do think Zetterberg has a slight edge over Alfredsson when it comes to career due to the fact that Zetterberg has a cup.
ReginKarlssonLehner
Let's Win It All
He had Datsyuk, Lidstrom, Rafalski (not counting hossa cause we had him too)
we had spezza and heatley but nothing was close to the trio help of Datsyuk, Lidstrom and Rafalski that Zetter had during his peak.
L'Aveuglette
つ ◕_◕ ༽つ
Stone is my favorite player right now, but come on man with the hyperbole and shortsightedness.
I think some people like to have outrageous opinions to be different. Like people who claim Lebron James is the GOAT. If you watched Michael Jordan play you would know that's not true.
I think they're comparable players in some ways but it's ridiculous to state this about Stone so early. I think you're underrating Alfie's all around game, first of all. And one of things that made Alfie so incredible was being able to play so well all the way into his late 30s. You're projecting 15+ years down the road here for Stone, way too many variables to take into account.
Also, scoring wasn't that much different:
On average over Alfie's career, 2.79 goals were scored per game. In Stone's 3 years, the average is 2.74. [source: http://www.hockey-reference.com/leagues/stats.html]
And a few other things: Alfie spent only 4 years with Heatley [albeit his best years], and don't discount how much Karlsson's greatness helps out Stone offensively.
Alfie was:
- a Calder winner, Clancy winner, and Messier winner
- a 6 time all-star
- a great Olympian
And he had:
- a legendary playoff run
- over 1000 points
And he has:
- the team record for regular season and playoff goals, assists and points.
Basically, pump the breaks.
Stone is an excellent player and is slowly becoming one of my favourites. Aside from his outstanding play I think it's his leadership in the dressing room. No doubt in my mind if Karlsson was not captain, Stone would be next in line and numerous examples have been given by Sens Management about the leadership he does provide.
trentmccleary
Registered User
Alfredsson finished top-10 3x. Another 2-3x in the top-20 and another 2-3x in the top-30 in scoring. All while missing 6-12 games a year. Stone has yet to crack the top-30 in scoring.
Alfredsson finished very high in takeaways when the league started to count them, in his mid-30's. He probably would have been one of the annual league leaders had it been counted the decade prior.
Alfredsson was a lot more skilled than Stone, a much better skater and could cover a lot more ice. He was better all around than Stone is now and it's not really close.
I love Stone and he'll end up being one of our best forwards, but he's not going to eclipse Alfredsson or Hossa.
Comparatively, Alfredsson had 50% more peak seasons than Zetterberg and a much better international career. Zetterberg had the Cup, Smythe and slightly better Selke votes. But Zetterberg's peak pales in comparison because it started later, has ended earlier and was fraught with injury.
Alfredsson finished very high in takeaways when the league started to count them, in his mid-30's. He probably would have been one of the annual league leaders had it been counted the decade prior.
Alfredsson was a lot more skilled than Stone, a much better skater and could cover a lot more ice. He was better all around than Stone is now and it's not really close.
I love Stone and he'll end up being one of our best forwards, but he's not going to eclipse Alfredsson or Hossa.
Comparatively, Alfredsson had 50% more peak seasons than Zetterberg and a much better international career. Zetterberg had the Cup, Smythe and slightly better Selke votes. But Zetterberg's peak pales in comparison because it started later, has ended earlier and was fraught with injury.
coladin
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- Sep 18, 2009
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and I believe in the dead puck era he was the third highest scoring player behind Thornton and Jagr I think it was...
Alfie in his prime in today's NHL would be 80 without even trying...can you imagine him 3 on 3?
trentmccleary
Registered User
No, that was from 2001-2010. Alfie had a lot of injuries to start the DPE.
Last 3 seasons average = 2.74 goals per game
Mark Stone average = 0.80 PPG
1999-2004 = 2.67 GPG
Alfie average 99-04 = 72-28-44-72, 1.00 PPG
Alfie's prime in terms of scoring had Spezza as his centre
The difference to me was that Alfredsson was an elite skater. Stone is not. I think Stone will be a very good player but he is one of those players that is more susceptible to being out of the league early rather than continuing to be productive into his mid to late 30s.
The difference to me was that Alfredsson was an elite skater. Stone is not. I think Stone will be a very good player but he is one of those players that is more susceptible to being out of the league early rather than continuing to be productive into his mid to late 30s.
BondraTime
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Sensinitis
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I'd tend to agree. Even if he loses a half step, that IQ and smooth passing will always be better than 90% of the league.
danielpalfredsson
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- Aug 14, 2013
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On the topic of him breaking down, he also doesn't play a style that will cause a lot of wear and tear. He barely hits and really doesn't play a physical style. He is aggressive with his stick, but this isn't some power forward who is gonna break down as he gets older.
Like with any other slow player, his skating will be a concern, but outside of some freak knee on knee injury or something as long as he is willing to put in the work that elite NHLers put in during the off season, he should be able to remain in the league for a long time with his style of play being more based around the cerebral element of the game, positioning, and having elite stick work.
Like with any other slow player, his skating will be a concern, but outside of some freak knee on knee injury or something as long as he is willing to put in the work that elite NHLers put in during the off season, he should be able to remain in the league for a long time with his style of play being more based around the cerebral element of the game, positioning, and having elite stick work.
I'm actually hopeful that Stone can gain a step, not lose one. His skating has improved year over year. If he applies himself to perfecting his stride, he could really make some serious improvements. He's still a young guy, only 24 years old. Tons of room to improve and learn.
I think he's going to be a big name in a few years.
I think he's going to be a big name in a few years.
NyQuil
Big F$&*in Q
Alfie had a very fast first couple strides. He could cover 10-15' faster than most. That's how he was able to win so many board battles. He simply was able to create separation with his first few strides.
trentmccleary
Registered User
He also wasn't slowed down with the puck. He could create time and space, stick handling alone in the offensive zone... unlike any forward we have now. Plus, he was a demon on the back check.
We don't have any player like him now. We'd basically have to take the best attributes of guys like Stone, Hoffman/Turris and maybe Pageau to piece him together.
We don't have any player like him now. We'd basically have to take the best attributes of guys like Stone, Hoffman/Turris and maybe Pageau to piece him together.
Sens Rule
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Alfie was an elite skater. Yeah he wasn't the best all-time. But he was elite.
Honestly right NOW if Alfredsson went out on the ice in practice and played takeaway versus the entire team, he likely only is surpassed by Karlsson and maybe Hoffman. Being like 43 and retired.
Alfredsson was unbelievably good at keeping the puck because he was so effective at skating and body positioning.
I am not sure it is just about skating, but the traditional Alfie play was to skate into the zone and then do a curl and slow everything down. No one could take the puck from him when he did that. Alfie would go from super speed getting into the zone and then immediately slow it all down and wait for a good passing lane.
He did this like almost everytime he skated the puck into the zone. And still no one could cover him when he predicably did it.
Alfredsson owned time and space when he had the puck. He would skate like crazy and not have anyone catch him, then slow it right down to zero while he waited to pass the puck to the teammate in the best position.
The NHL keeps getting faster and fewer players can do what Alfredsson did. But prime Alfie could play the exact same style he did to similar results today.
And also Alfie was far better then either Spezza or Heatley when he was on the line with them and they all had virtually the same ppg stats. He was the entire defence on the line. He was the energy of the line. The forechecker and backchecker.
I love Stone and Hoffman. And I would love it if either one of them could ever appoach even prime Alfie let alone peak Alfie. I doubt either do, but maybe.
I think people forget, Alfie was often the best defensive player on the team, over all the defencemen. Alfie was Pageau and Hoffman and Stone all rolled into one player. He would be the best at stealing the puck, the crazy intensity and effort checking, and the wicked skating and possession and shooting an passing.
Alfie was so good I actually liked (well liked watching) us go down 5-3 just to watch Alfie play in that situation. When we were down 5-3 it seemed like half the time Alfie stole the puck and got a freaking scoring chance.
Karl Prime
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Alfie would have been such a great fit with this Boucher-coached team. Imagine replacing Ryan with prime #11? He would have helped the PP so much ... 68-7-61, 11-65. That's smack-dab filthy.
On topic ... yes, Stone is amazing. He's a pure joy to watch, especially when he's anywhere near a defender with the puck. The play he made the other game against the Islanders where he stole the puck then sent a pass to Turris for a scoring chance. It's an amazing play, yet you watch him enough and you expect him to make that play every time. Stud.
Stone gets a lot of credit for his hand skills and his anticipation, but I also like to give him credit for using a stick that is so perfect for his skillset. Long, geat blade that is perfect for takeaways, and aides him in being strong on the puck always.
On topic ... yes, Stone is amazing. He's a pure joy to watch, especially when he's anywhere near a defender with the puck. The play he made the other game against the Islanders where he stole the puck then sent a pass to Turris for a scoring chance. It's an amazing play, yet you watch him enough and you expect him to make that play every time. Stud.
Stone gets a lot of credit for his hand skills and his anticipation, but I also like to give him credit for using a stick that is so perfect for his skillset. Long, geat blade that is perfect for takeaways, and aides him in being strong on the puck always.
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Pierre from Orleans
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