Mark Stone High Hit on Filip Forsberg

[SlapshotTheMovie]

for an illegal check to the head the rules state
"a hit resulting in contact with an opponent's head where the head was the main point of contact and such contact to the head was avoidable."

the question is, was the hit to the head avoidable as FF lowers his head because of the trip ?
I think a good case can be made for the answer being no,

this is the consequence of things that stone could not control so I don't see how you can hold him accountable for the sudden change of where FF's head is.

I guess i missed the part of hockey where refs follow the rules perfectly and are allowed slow mo replays before blowing the whistle. Watching in real time you cant tell he was tripped. Thats a product of slow mo and the right camera angle. Neither of which refs have. Although i agree that he was tripped there is plenty of room to argue his head only moved 1-2 inches before impact and the impact was the center of his face. Meaning it was avoidable. It is a super easy argument that the injury is from being tripped into a hit and he wont get a suspension for it but there is just as much argument for he was tripped and it wasnt a head shot as much as there is it is a headshot if he is tripped or not.

 

[blankall]

I've posted this before, but this a clean hit. Forsberg is leaning down, that doesn't mean he's not a fair target for a hit. Please go to 1:42 in this video supplied by the NHL on what makes a check legal.

Forsberg falls into Stone's shoulder. You can clearly see Stone pushing Forsberg's chest, not his head, with his arm.

From the rulebook;

48.1 Illegal Check to the Head – A hit resulting in contact with an opponent’s head where the head was the main point of contact and such contact to the head was avoidable is not permitted. In determining whether contact with an opponent's head was avoidable, the circumstances of the hit including the following shall be considered:
(i) Whether the player attempted to hit squarely through the opponent’s body and the head was not "picked" as a result of poor timing, poor angle of approach, or unnecessary extension of the body upward or outward.
(ii) Whether the opponent put himself in a vulnerable position by assuming a posture that made head contact on an otherwise full body check unavoidable.
(iii) Whether the opponent materially changed the position of his body or head immediately prior to or simultaneously with the hit in a way that significantly contributed to the head contact.

It's the "main point of contact", not the first point of contact. As stated Stone's arm pushed the body of Forsberg. If you want to make the point that the head is the main point of contact then you have to take into account that Forsberg's body position changes just prior contact, as he falls forward.

 

[PoutineSp00nZ]

Stone has eyes on his target the whole time. Heads elevate, look at the heels of his skates. He was looking to go high the whole time.

He was looking to hit a dude where you would normally hit a dude.

Forsberg stumbled or whatever, and was in a lower position.

Clean hit. Everybody is so sensitive these days, trying to take the contact out of hockey.

 

[blankall]

Stone has eyes on his target the whole time. Heads elevate, look at the heels of his skates. He was looking to go high the whole time.

By the "whole time" do you mean that split second of footage we have that is in extreme slow motion? When he goes into the hit, Stone is clearly crouched. That suggests to me he was trying to hit the target low and lean up into the hit, which is standard. If he was trying to hit high, he would have approached from an elevated position.

 

[McClelland]

Forsberg got tripped behind and on his way down , Stone had already started his hit! Unlucky and not intended, perhaps 2 min for the result. The player who tripped Forsberg should had 2 min though! Hope Forsberg is okay!

 

[Cyclones Rock]

Going for a hit and the dude tripped. Move along.

Didn't notice that when I looked. Good call.

 

[sandysan]

I guess i missed the part of hockey where refs follow the rules perfectly and are allowed slow mo replays before blowing the whistle. Watching in real time you cant tell he was tripped. Thats a product of slow mo and the right camera angle. Neither of which refs have. Although i agree that he was tripped there is plenty of room to argue his head only moved 1-2 inches before impact and the impact was the center of his face. Meaning it was avoidable. It is a super easy argument that the injury is from being tripped into a hit and he wont get a suspension for it but there is just as much argument for he was tripped and it wasnt a head shot as much as there is it is a headshot if he is tripped or not.

what I see doesnt make a difference, his head CLEARLY moved into a position where it was contacted by a guy committed to delivering a hit.
this happens in real time, if I am lining you up and you move and take it in the head, the expectation that a player will bail on a hit after initiating it but before contact is a poor one indeed.

All hits are " avoidable", that's what you want, right ? Stone initiated a hit and FF ( through his own fault or not) ended up in a precarious position. once stone commits to the hit, he's committed.

c'est la vie.

 

[triggrman]

Yeah, the guy tripping Forsberg was more at fault than Stone but neither should be suspended. Refs missed the call it happens.

 

[EP40 AKA Lil Wayne]

Even if its deemed a legal hit, what should be talked about is this a hit that can lead to long term illnes connected to concussions cause that shit is something you would not wish on your worst enemy. Every single year now Im reading about former players who are batteling severe effects from to many concussions and hockey is much more than dishing out quistionable hits.

Rather have less hitting than have to read about people going thru hell from a sport i like to watch, I could always go to youtube and watch highlights of Kronwall blowing up people if Im in the mood.

 

[Pure Slaughter Value]

For a guy that got tripped his head didn't go down so much and he followed the play trying to redirect the puck into the goalie after losing it.

If he didn't get tripped he's still taking an upwards shot to the chin. That's a definite penalty worthy of review.

 

[Chips]

If simply being reckless is grounds for a game, we should hold M Tkachuk's retirement party today.

Just like there’s degrees of dirtiness, there are degrees of recklessness. Sometimes reckless play really do deserve a game or more.

This was really nothing tho. Minor penalty

 

[blankall]

If he didn't get tripped he's still taking an upwards shot to the chin. That's a definite penalty worthy of review.

Is he? How do you know this?

It's normal to push your legs into a hit.

 

[Chips]

Not sure why Stone directed his force upward instead of straight through Forsberg. I don't think it's worthy of a suspension but Stone was definitely fired up about something last night. He had several other hits besides this one and the fight with Josi. Must have had a bad day yesterday.

By the "whole time" do you mean that split second of footage we have that is in extreme slow motion? When he goes into the hit, Stone is clearly crouched. That suggests to me he was trying to hit the target low and lean up into the hit, which is standard. If he was trying to hit high, he would have approached from an elevated position.

Stone made the typical motion of a hitter. The problem was his timing, it didn’t really look like he was intending to hit the whole time and or his attention was split on the puck. Then moves his body to hit last second while kinda turning.

He made the right motion from within his body, but typically you time it for right as you’re making contact in which case you don’t necessarily move up, that momentum is transferred into the other player throwing them up and back ie lifting them of the ground. Otherwise, the hitter himself might be just as likely to fall back rather than stay up, because you’re still hitting a heavy solid target.

Keep in mind, you can’t literally throw your shoulder outward, except I guess by dislocating it, but probably not with much force lol.

It was an awkward hit attempt, arguably reckless but his intent was most likely clean.

 

[triggrman]

For the record, that was in the 2nd, Forsberg played well after that hit, it was only late in the 3rd that he came out of the game.

 

[valet]

1 game for posterity, but tbh it looks like forsberg just tripped and fell into stone's elbow

 

[Total Bender]

Stone has eyes on his target the whole time. Heads elevate, look at the heels of his skates. He was looking to go high the whole time.

This is clearly the most objective opinion we'll get in this thread might as well just terminate Stone from the NHL now.

 

[Tomas W]

Not enough for a suspention, could maybe be 2 min.

 

[TheDawnOfANewTage]

He was trapped between a Stone and a hard place.





That's it, that's my contribution.

 

[CanadianPensFan1]

Nothing here imo. Maybe a 2 min for interference. But definitely no suspension.

Stone started low, exploded upwards, arms down/in, didnt leave his feet. Also, both guys are sort of ...how to word it ... "bent" in positions like they are both going to crouch. Bracing for impact maybe?

Whatever it is ... I dont see anything illegal here.

 

[sandysan]

Even if its deemed a legal hit, what should be talked about is this a hit that can lead to long term illnes connected to concussions cause that **** is something you would not wish on your worst enemy. Every single year now Im reading about former players who are batteling severe effects from to many concussions and hockey is much more than dishing out quistionable hits.

Rather have less hitting than have to read about people going thru hell from a sport i like to watch, I could always go to youtube and watch highlights of Kronwall blowing up people if Im in the mood.

the ladies game might just be your cup of tea.
and all hits have the ability to cause damage.

 

[hirawl]

FF tripped which caused his position to change in a way which was not really predictable to Stone when he committed to the hit. Pretty much all accidental. I mean the head contact.

 

[EP40 AKA Lil Wayne]

the ladies game might just be your cup of tea.
and all hits have the ability to cause damage.

Maybe a three hour loop of Stevens laying out Lindros would be a substitute for you though guy.

Fact is, people wont let their kids play hockey cause the risk of getting concussions is to high. Concussions can lead to long lasting effects like CTE, migraine, severe depression, mood swings, etc. This happends to professional hockey players every year. A broken bone is nothing in compared to that.

Strict accountability is the only way forward.

 

[sandysan]

Maybe a three hour loop of Stevens laying out Lindros would be a substitute for you though guy.

Fact is, people wont let their kids play hockey cause the risk of getting concussions is to high. Concussions can lead to long lasting effects like CTE, migraine, severe depression, mood swings, etc. This happends to professional hockey players every year. A broken bone is nothing in compared to that.

Strict accountability is the only way forward.

Im not a tough guy, but if you liked hockey at any point, you liked a game where players routinely and intentionally ran into each other. That you NOW want to reduce hitting as some sort of salve for your offended sensibilities is offensively paternalistic.

the players know they will get hit, they accept the risk. its part of the game EVEN if you wish it were not ( I know, right ! people choosing to do something that you would not ! the NERVE of those people!)

the link to CTE is still very much unclear and can still only be diagnosed post mortem.

if adults want to make their own decisions. they have every right to tell you to take your concerns and shove em where the sun dont shine. if you don't want to play contact hockey, don't and leave it at that.

 

[Legionnaire11]

Im not a tough guy, but if you liked hockey at any point, you liked a game where players routinely and intentionally ran into each other. That you NOW want to reduce hitting as some sort of salve for your offended sensibilities is offensively paternalistic.

To be clear, amongst your sexist insults, denial of medical science and various logical fallacies in this thread, you just topped all of that by saying that once an individual's mind is made up, they should never change it, even when presented with new information. That's pretty rough.

 

[Kale Hulls]

It took Stone a while to learn but now he understands that when you play for Vegas there are no consequences for illegal hits to the head.