Recalled/Assigned: Mark Scheifele sent back to Barrie Colts (OHL)

[truck]

A year and half plus after you were picked 7th overall and experienced 2 WJC would not be rushed imo. Sending him back may or may not be the best decision but him staying up could not have been classified as rushed.

If they deemed him "not ready" and kept him here, it could easily be classified as rushing him.

I like Scheifele, but he needs to play centre abd he wasn't going to do that here this year.

 

[Johnny HFBOARDS]

Scheifele fact #253
Did you know that when Mark was born the doctor sent him back to the womb, just to get a few more weeks to develop.

 

[CorgisPer60]

Scheifele fact #253
Did you know that when Mark was born the doctor sent him back to the womb, just to get a few more weeks to develop.

What is Mark Scheifele's favourite music note? A b flat.

 

[jetkarma*]

If they deemed him "not ready" and kept him here, it could easily be classified as rushing him.

I like Scheifele, but he needs to play centre abd he wasn't going to do that here this year.

That isn't the point , the point was the length of time after he was drafted. Of course if he isn't ready then keeping here when he should not be here ( read Burmistrov ) then it would be deemed rushing him. That was not the point however.

Also just to clarify for those that automatically say he will be in the A or that Trouba has no chance to be here next year , the GM disagrees with you .

Chevy said he has zero issues keeping a player right after he is drafted or anytime thereafter. It all depends ( as it should ) on readiness which encompasses many things. Physical development , experience , how many years of Jr. , high level competition , mental toughness etc.

The " TSNE blueprint is to develop players in the AHL" is not in fact accurate as Cheveldayof just confirmed today. Saying that , players may indeed put time in there , but it is not at all a must. Lawless was going on earlier in the show before Chevy was on , pontificating on the situation and saying that Scheifele would be spending time on the rock next year , starting the year there , then saying well maybe he starts here then goes down . Perhaps , but not written in stone , at all.

 

[ps241]

Yea Jetkarma I agree on each player has his timeline based on what Chevy has said since the beginning.

When I watched the WJC this year I felt the most NHL ready defenseman was Jacob Trouba and that included Hamilton. small sample size of coarse but he was the most mature, relaxed, complete D man in the tournament. Hamilton is fitting in nicely in Boston and although a + b doesn't nessesarily = c , it makes one wonder if Trouba might legitimately be ready to go next season?

I am not advocating the move on that time frame just spitballing. one more year in collage can't hurt but unless he regresses I can't see much more than that. He looks pretty close right now IMO.

 

[GJF]

Yea Jetkarma I agree on each player has his timeline based on what Chevy has said since the beginning.

When I watched the WJC this year I felt the most NHL ready defenseman was Jacob Trouba and that included Hamilton. small sample size of coarse but he was the most mature, relaxed, complete D man in the tournament. Hamilton is fitting in nicely in Boston and although a + b doesn't nessesarily = c , it makes one wonder if Trouba might legitimately be ready to go next season?

I am not advocating the move on that time frame just spitballing. one more year in collage can't hurt but unless he regresses I can't see much more than that. He looks pretty close right now IMO.

Right now I'd bet that he'll get the 9 games tryout next year and if he sticks with the team (and that's not that hard to imagine), he won't go back to college again. It wasn't the initial plan but it's a likely scenario. If he's ready sooner than expected, nobody will be against him playing up I guess.

And you're right about the WJC. The most ready looking defenders absolutely have been Hamilton and Trouba. Alongside with Seth Jones, these three were the best defenders of the tournament BUT Jones didn't look ready to play with men. I'd be sooooo interested to see what Trouba would do on our blueline right now with Buff and Bogo out

 

[CorgisPer60]

Right now I'd bet that he'll get the 9 games tryout next year and if he sticks with the team (and that's not that hard to imagine), he won't go back to college again. It wasn't the initial plan but it's a likely scenario. If he's ready sooner than expected, nobody will be against him playing up I guess.

And you're right about the WJC. The most ready looking defenders absolutely have been Hamilton and Trouba. Alongside with Seth Jones, these three were the best defenders of the tournament BUT Jones didn't look ready to play with men. I'd be sooooo interested to see what Trouba would do on our blueline right now with Buff and Bogo out

Trouba can't go to training camp or play in pre-season games without voiding his NCAA eligibility. He'll have to be damn sure he wants to turn pro when he does.

 

[PhilJets]

So your saying he shouldn't have to earn what he gets?

No, but he should have been given a better chance and better line mates,
Like huberdeau, galenychuk, even yakupov

 

[GJF]

Trouba can't go to training camp or play in pre-season games without voiding his NCAA eligibility. He'll have to be damn sure he wants to turn pro when he does.

Well then ignore the "9 campt tryout" part and keep the rest

 

[Whileee]

In thinking about Scheifele's development, three players come to mind: Corey Perry, Ryan Getzlaf and Jeff Carter. All of them were rangy players that could improve their skating when drafted. All of them spent two full years in junior after being drafted in the first round, and had a smattering of time in the AHL during their first pro year (as 20 year olds). They all turned out fine, and I'd be happy if Scheifele followed a similar trajectory.

 

[scelaton]

That isn't the point , the point was the length of time after he was drafted. Of course if he isn't ready then keeping here when he should not be here ( read Burmistrov ) then it would be deemed rushing him. That was not the point however.

I just think we need to remind ourselves regularly about how long it takes to prepare a first rounder for the NHL, unless they are exceptional. In Scheifele's draft year, only 5 players have more than 10 career NHL points. In Burmi's year, the 2010 draft, fewer than 10 players have amassed more than 10 NHL points.
In relative terms, it has been a very short time out for both of these players and it was always highly improbable that Mark would be playing productively this year, or next.

 

[Donald]

Even the most optimistic fans that liked the Scheifele pick weren't expecting to see him in the NHL at 19. He's actually developed a lot quicker than what we all thought the Jets were expecting.

But you know, haters gonna hate.

 

[cbcwpg]

One of the reasons he was sent back might just be related to this line from the FP today...

"and he didn't have enough trust from his coach"

Everyone points to his development, skill, etc. but regardless of those factors, if the coach doesn't trust your play, you are not going to play. I see the comments about how he is more skilled than say Wellwood, and that may be, but if the coach would rather have Wellwood on the ice, then the decision has been made.

Better to work on those aspects of the game where you play a lot.

 

[surixon]

One of the reasons he was sent back might just be related to this line from the FP today...

"and he didn't have enough trust from his coach"

Everyone points to his development, skill, etc. but regardless of those factors, if the coach doesn't trust your play, you are not going to play. I see the comments about how he is more skilled than say Wellwood, and that may be, but if the coach would rather have Wellwood on the ice, then the decision has been made.

Better to work on those aspects of the game where you play a lot.

That was blatantly obvious by the way that Noel used him. But that shouldn't come as a surprise to any and is no strike against Mark but is more indicative to the tpe of coach that we have. Noel doesn't play young players trying to establish themselves unless he has no other choice, which is why I hope he has a Hitchcock change of view or he's run out of town. I don't see a future here for him if he doesn't start trusting young players.

 

[angrymnky]

I see the comments about how he is more skilled than say Wellwood, and that may be, but if the coach would rather have Wellwood on the ice, then the decision has been made.

Yes, but that decision and possibly the coach's decision making ability has been questioned, not the validity of the decisions.

 

[truck]

That isn't the point , the point was the length of time after he was drafted. Of course if he isn't ready then keeping here when he should not be here ( read Burmistrov ) then it would be deemed rushing him. That was not the point however.

Also just to clarify for those that automatically say he will be in the A or that Trouba has no chance to be here next year , the GM disagrees with you .

Chevy said he has zero issues keeping a player right after he is drafted or anytime thereafter. It all depends ( as it should ) on readiness which encompasses many things. Physical development , experience , how many years of Jr. , high level competition , mental toughness etc.

The " TSNE blueprint is to develop players in the AHL" is not in fact accurate as Cheveldayof just confirmed today. Saying that , players may indeed put time in there , but it is not at all a must. Lawless was going on earlier in the show before Chevy was on , pontificating on the situation and saying that Scheifele would be spending time on the rock next year , starting the year there , then saying well maybe he starts here then goes down . Perhaps , but not written in stone , at all.

I agree with all this. Just saying "rushed" is relative to both the player, the team's developmental strategy and need.

Keeping him could be deemed as rushing him depending on those criteria. That is all I was saying.

 

[JetsHomer]

That was blatantly obvious by the way that Noel used him. But that shouldn't come as a surprise to any and is no strike against Mark but is more indicative to the tpe of coach that we have. Noel doesn't play young players trying to establish themselves unless he has no other choice, which is why I hope he has a Hitchcock change of view or he's run out of town. I don't see a future here for him if he doesn't start trusting young players.

Literally last game he promoted 21 year old Burmi to the second line.

 

[surixon]

Literally last game he promoted 21 year old Burmi to the second line.

Only after the team lost 3 in a row while getting embaressed in a couple of them.

Answer this, why wasn't he promoted sooner? He's played well all year, just as good if not better than Antropov yet it was the latter veteran who got the chance first. That same veteran is still getting pp time over him.

Instead of trusting Redmond a two time AHL all-star he continued to play Clitsome who was performing poorly. Not only this he moves Haimsy out of position and moves Stuart up into a role that he has proven time and time again and even aknowledged by Noel that he can't handle instead of giving the young player the benefit of the doubt in that spot.

Postma only gets a legit chance this year when he's on a one-way deal. He was playing exceptionally well last year and had a dominant camp but only gets his shot when the team and Noel have no other choice.

Before people say Kane, Bogosian, both players already had 2 and 3 years of NHL experience with Bogosian having a multi million contract and Kane sproving he could already play in the top 6. Noel didn't have a choice they were already on the team and mostly proven.

I'm seeing patterns here that I frankly don't like with Noel. You may have another opinion which is fine, but this is my view on the matter.

 

[truck]

Answer this, why wasn't he promoted sooner? He's played well all year, just as good if not better than Antropov yet it was the latter veteran who got the chance first. That same veteran is still getting pp time over him.

Because Coach wanted him to play centre and the first two C spots were taken at first. I don't know why Antro got the first look but it was probably a size thing, plus the Ladd - Antro - Little thing worked for a while. 3 games of Antro isn't a long time. Also, Burmi was the #2C for most of last year. I don't see how he has been wronged.

Instead of trusting Redmond a two time AHL all-star he continued to play Clitsome who was performing poorly. Not only this he moves Haimsy out of position and moves Stuart up into a role that he has proven time and time again and even aknowledged by Noel that he can't handle instead of giving the young player the benefit of the doubt in that spot.

Clitsome is a left defenseman, that is why he is dressing. Swinging Hainsey to the right and moving him up is the logical choice. They did it last year too. Neither Redmond or Postma should get 1st pairing minutes right now and they definitely shouldn't have been their in their first games. They are both playing well, but part of why they are playing well because Hainsey and Toby allow them to be sheltered.

Postma only gets a legit chance this year when he's on a one-way deal. He was playing exceptionally well last year and had a dominant camp but only gets his shot when the team and Noel have no other choice.

Postma had/has issues defensively. Many out East hate him and say he cost them more games than he won them. There is nothing wrong with developing him slowly, plus that isn't Noel's call.

Before people say Kane, Bogosian, both players already had 2 and 3 years of NHL experience with Bogosian having a multi million contract and Kane sproving he could already play in the top 6. Noel didn't have a choice they were already on the team and mostly proven.

They weren't mostly proven and they both took great strides last year.

 

[surixon]

Because Coach wanted him to play centre and the first two C spots were taken at first. I don't know why Antro got the first look but it was probably a size thing, plus the Ladd - Antro - Little thing worked for a while. 3 games of Antro isn't a long time. Also, Burmi was the #2C for most of last year. I don't see how he has been wronged.


Clitsome is a left defenseman, that is why he is dressing. Swinging Hainsey to the right and moving him up is the logical choice. They did it last year too. Neither Redmond or Postma should get 1st pairing minutes right now and they definitely shouldn't have been their in their first games. They are both playing well, but part of why they are playing well because Hainsey and Toby allow them to be sheltered.


Postma had/has issues defensively. Many out East hate him and say he cost them more games than he won them. There is nothing wrong with developing him slowly, plus that isn't Noel's call.


They weren't mostly proven and they both took great strides last year.

We'll agree to disagree. I see a coach who would rather play veterans then try his luck with youngsters, maybe his approach will be correct in the end but I don't like it.

 

[truck]

We'll agree to disagree. I see a coach who would rather play veterans then try his luck with youngsters, maybe his approach will be correct in the end but I don't like it.

I don't see that. I see a coach who makes youngsters earn it, but I don't see a dislike of youth. Kane, Bogo and Burmi all took major strides last year and they all were rewarded with ice time.

The Jets are one of the youngest teans in the league and I doubt there are many younger top 6 forward groupings than the one here in Winnipeg. Edmonton would obviously be younger, but who else?

Agree to disagree indeed.

 

[garret9]

We'll agree to disagree. I see a coach who would rather play veterans then try his luck with youngsters, maybe his approach will be correct in the end but I don't like it.

Why can't it be (50 ) shades of grey instead of black and white?

I personally agree and think Noel does lean on vets too much, but sometimes that's a right decision to make.

Hainsey has lots and lots of experience on the off-side in the NHL level (which isn't unusual for lefties) while Redmond and Postma had little to no experience of play at the NHL at all and zero experience on the offside. Postma and Redmond for the most part have been severely sheltered, predominately facing bottom6 players and starting most of their shifts in the offensive zone (both around 60% which is more than non-Sedins get). Enstrom and Hainsey have almost gained exclusive rights on top6 match-ups while in the Dzone for about 60% of their shifts as well... Heck, Postma doesn't even face tough match-ups in the AHL (eye test only, no adv stats for AHL).

Scheifele vs Wellwood may not currently be as close as some may care to admit. Wellwood is a player much like Hainsey, where sometimes he may not be obvious or appear to be doing much when he's actually doing a lot. There has to be some reason why the Jets' are out-chancing their opponents 21:1 per 60 mins when Wellwood is on the ice, but when he's not they average (key word is average) being out-chanced 10:1 per 60 mins...

Also, Postma not getting a chance was Chevaldayoff's decision and he explained it last season too (I believe in the end of season press conference). It was something along the lines that the plan was to call him up when they were mathematically out of the playoffs and then scratch/rest Byfuglien, but by the time that happened there was barely any season left and IceCaps were pushing hard.

 

[surixon]

Why can't it be (50 ) shades of grey instead of black and white?

I personally agree and think Noel does lean on vets too much, but sometimes that's a right decision to make.

Hainsey has lots and lots of experience on the off-side in the NHL level (which isn't unusual for lefties) while Redmond and Postma had little to no experience of play at the NHL at all and zero experience on the offside. Postma and Redmond for the most part have been severely sheltered, predominately facing bottom6 players and starting most of their shifts in the offensive zone (both around 60% which is more than non-Sedins get). Enstrom and Hainsey have almost gained exclusive rights on top6 match-ups while in the Dzone for about 60% of their shifts as well... Heck, Postma doesn't even face tough match-ups in the AHL (eye test only, no adv stats for AHL).

Scheifele vs Wellwood may not currently be as close as some may care to admit. Wellwood is a player much like Hainsey, where sometimes he may not be obvious or appear to be doing much when he's actually doing a lot. There has to be some reason why the Jets' are out-chancing their opponents 21:1 per 60 mins when Wellwood is on the ice, but when he's not they average (key word is average) being out-chanced 10:1 per 60 mins...

Also, Postma not getting a chance was Chevaldayoff's decision and he explained it last season too (I believe in the end of season press conference). It was something along the lines that the plan was to call him up when they were mathematically out of the playoffs and then scratch/rest Byfuglien, but by the time that happened there was barely any season left and IceCaps were pushing hard.

I agree with a lot of what you are saying and am not advocating putting a guy like Redmond ahead of Hainsy at this point in time. My main argument is that it took an injury to get Redmond in the line up when it perhaps shouldn't have. I'm all for young guys earning opportunities but it seems that they have to do far more than a veteran to earn them. What more could Redmond realistically do in the AHL to earn a chance to play.

I'm fine with Scheifele being sent back, just wish management would have made the decision quicker. It really seemed like they dragged it along too much and may have messed with his psyche needlessly.

 

[surixon]

I don't see that. I see a coach who makes youngsters earn it, but I don't see a dislike of youth. Kane, Bogo and Burmi all took major strides last year and they all were rewarded with ice time.

The Jets are one of the youngest teans in the league and I doubt there are many younger top 6 forward groupings than the one here in Winnipeg. Edmonton would obviously be younger, but who else?

Agree to disagree indeed.

I have no issue with young players earning opportunities, I fail to see how Postma or Redmond's body of work in the AHL didn't earn them an opportunity.

 

[truck]

I have no issue with young players earning opportunities, I fail to see how Postma or Redmond's body of work in the AHL didn't earn them an opportunity.

They are getting an opportunity. Aren't they? Besides, that isn't on Noel's call. They both got kept up over the older Meech.