Marincin-Zaitsev should be our bottom pair

[SeaOfBlue]

So an appeal to authority? By that logic Matthews and Marner won't work together because Babcock doesn't play them together.....

We don't play them together because there the only two defenseman on the entire team that can carry a pair

If Dermott develops maybe that changes and we can play them together

Not even remotely the same.

If Matthews and Marner were on the same team together for like 5 years and never played together besides times when they were stacking offense (which is a huge reason why Rielly and Gardiner's possession numbers are so good in the first place), then I would say you can compare them.

But at this point, no matter what one of Nylander or Marner was not going to be able to play with Matthews because the other one was often going to be the guy who did. Also since Matthews has been here, we have not been desperately looking for a RW to put beside him. How long have we been looking for a top pairing defenseman? How desperate have we been with trying to fix our defense?

I am pretty sure Hainsey and Rielly have played more together in this year alone than Rielly and Gardiner have in the 5 or 6 years combined. I am actually pretty sure coaches tried Marincin with Rielly more often than they tried Gardiner. Either we have the worst coaches of all time for not putting this amazing pairing together by now and trying Polak, Marincin, Zaitsev, Hainsey and Hunwick more with him, or there is some reason that the pairing is not happening. My guess is the latter.

 

[Kiwi]

Not even remotely the same.

If Matthews and Marner were on the same team together for like 5 years and never played together besides times when they were stacking offense (which is a huge reason why Rielly and Gardiner's possession numbers are so good in the first place), then I would say you can compare them.

But at this point, no matter what one of Nylander or Marner was not going to be able to play with Matthews because the other one was often going to be the guy who did. Also since Matthews has been here, we have not been desperately looking for a RW to put beside him. How long have we been looking for a top pairing defenseman? How desperate have we been with trying to fix our defense?

I am pretty sure Hainsey and Rielly have played more together in this year alone than Rielly and Gardiner have in the 5 or 6 years combined. I am actually pretty sure coaches tried Marincin with Rielly more often than they tried Gardiner. Either we have the worst coaches of all time for not putting this amazing pairing together by now and trying Polak, Marincin, Zaitsev, Hainsey and Hunwick more with him, or there is some reason that the pairing is not happening. My guess is the latter.

If we put our two best defenseman (inarguably) on one pair our 2nd and 3rd pairs would be an absolute joke and Babcock is trying to spread the wealth

It's not complicated and anybody that says Hainsey is a better partner for Rielly than Gardiner is out of there Gord or have an anti Gardiner agenda

 

[ToMaLe]

Calle Rosen should be on the Leafs next year. Marincin is probably headed back to europe imo.

 

[StatsNightHeroes]

I don’t think Marincin is the answer but I thought Gardiner and Zaitsev were a disaster together all year.

Ideally

Rielly- xxx
Gardiner- Hainsey
Dermott- Zaitsev

Obviously the “xxx” is the big need.
The bottom 2 pairings can compete for minutes.

Come playoff time I’d love to see the leafs run 11 and 7, especially if Nylander goes to C. Let Matthews, Kadri and Nylander go as the only 3 centres for even strength and pp.

Allows them to have a guy like Polak to play heavy PK minutes so Hainsey and Zaitsev don’t play 2 minutes every pk.

 

[Guy Boucher]

I think he's dead to Babcock, but who knows with Dubas. He should be in an NHL training camp this fall but I could easily see him in Europe

Wouldn't make sense for Dubas to try to force players down Babcock's throat when he knows that he won't play them. And you can't even blame Babcock because he's given Marincin some legit chances.

 

[ErnieLeafs]

Classic example of why the eye test will never die. I wish that dumpster fire would get traded or cut, so this awful idea couldn't be rehashed.

 

[AllDay28]

youre wasting your time bringing data here man. Everyone's eye here is better than facts and data because of small sample sizes. Albeit no one here is a scout or will ever work in the NHL, but they know more. I appreciate the #s tho so thank you.

 

[Magic Man]

There is a chance another GM see's value in him at the NHL level if he can lead the Marlies to the promise land.

 

[Leafblooded]

I don't read long ass post but I say BLEH from title only!

 

[54thecup]

Calle Rosen should be on the Leafs next year. Marincin is probably headed back to europe imo.

I've watched alot of Marlies games and everyone of the playoffs and I have been really impressed with Rosen! Smooth skater, good heads up puck mover and doing a good job on special teams. I think he deserves a good shot, although he's prob 4-5 on the LHD depth chart at this point. It will be interesting to see what happens since Dubas has had a great look at our depth D guys all year!

Marincin has looked ok at times but still prone to many mistakes and I dont see him as a soln in the NHL.

 

[Thissiteisgarbage]

Holl is deserving a legit chance at the 6-7 spot. He's underated IMO.

 

[Warden of the North]

I dont care what the stats say about Marincin WATCH HIM PLAY. He is an awful hockey player and I want him nowhere near this team.

 

[DowntownConnorBrown]

marincin is not a nhl capable defense man theirs a reason babock took him out of the lineup the second he had more options on defense

 

[Spirit of 67]

Lost me at DFD.

What does that even mean?

 

[Bomber0104]

Don't stop there. With "advanced" stats like that, our Corsi superstar Martin Marincin could actually be a top pairing defenceman!

Why Martin Marincin could be a top pair defenceman for the Leafs - Sportsnet.ca

Thank God we have Babcock, that's all I can say.

 

[luvdahattymatty]

The Leaf defence is so BAD overall that people resort to bringing up the dead like Marincin. Nest year hopefully will start the retooling of the entire Leaf defence core over next 4 years. Maybe 2 existing guys on Leafs will stick around in 4 years and thats a big maybe.

 

[Morgs]

I like Marincin, but we have at least 6 better defenseman than him.

The guy is unreasonably picked on by Leaf fans though.

 

[SprDaVE]

I still think Marincin is a fine depth defenseman and could be a good bottom pairing defenseman on most teams. He's been fairly dominant in the AHL.

Unfortunately for some odd reason he losses any puck skills he has at the NHL level and seems to imagine the puck as a grenade. If he was more physical and "in your face" he'd probably have a role in the NHL, like Polak.

He might get one last chance this upcoming training camp since he's a RFA this off-season. He's good cheap depth to have and he's a veteran for the Marlies. I won't be surprised if he gets a big contract overseas though.

 

[SprDaVE]

Don't stop there. With "advanced" stats like that, our Corsi superstar Martin Marincin could actually be a top pairing defenceman!

Why Martin Marincin could be a top pair defenceman for the Leafs - Sportsnet.ca

Thank God we have Babcock, that's all I can say.

Maybe if you had read the article you'd understand the logic behind it? The tragedy of the article is the terrible clickbait it was.

This week, coach Mike Babcock said the team thinks Marincin “has a lot of potential” when he was talking about promoting him to the top pair with Rielly.

Over the course of this season Marincin has exceeded defensive expectations as indicated by every measure we have at our disposal. He is only 24, and if his development can continue he stands a decent chance of developing into an excellent shut down defender. The final quarter of this season will give ample opportunity to see how Marincin handles a higher minute load in a top pairing capacity, but so far this year the data would suggest he is capable of meeting the challenge.

Even Babcock echoed the same sentiments...

 

[81Leafs50]

Hell to the no he doesn't, had a 2.1 Corsi rel last year.

The eye test shows he's elite at at breaking up zone entries, has had great games, I'm not going to say Gardiner is an AHLer just because he makes some big mistakes if his other plays more than makes up for it.

advanced stats cannot save him. He sucks period.

 

[SprDaVE]

advanced stats cannot save him. He sucks period.

Polak sucks in every sense of the word and he played regularly. We will need a new "PK" specialist that struggles with the puck knowing Babcock.

 

[diceman934]

Marincin's definitely better than Polak, hell the biggest thing about Polak was he was a net creaser even though every shot map showed a sea of red around the net when he's on.

We have Lou's prodigy in charge now, that can be arranged.

I think Dubas will push for Marincin to get 1 more shot.

He can push all he wants Babcock will not play him for long at all, if at all. Babcock proved that in Detroit and here as well.

 

[diceman934]

Not even remotely the same.

If Matthews and Marner were on the same team together for like 5 years and never played together besides times when they were stacking offense (which is a huge reason why Rielly and Gardiner's possession numbers are so good in the first place), then I would say you can compare them.

But at this point, no matter what one of Nylander or Marner was not going to be able to play with Matthews because the other one was often going to be the guy who did. Also since Matthews has been here, we have not been desperately looking for a RW to put beside him. How long have we been looking for a top pairing defenseman? How desperate have we been with trying to fix our defense?

I am pretty sure Hainsey and Rielly have played more together in this year alone than Rielly and Gardiner have in the 5 or 6 years combined. I am actually pretty sure coaches tried Marincin with Rielly more often than they tried Gardiner. Either we have the worst coaches of all time for not putting this amazing pairing together by now and trying Polak, Marincin, Zaitsev, Hainsey and Hunwick more with him, or there is some reason that the pairing is not happening. My guess is the latter.

Rielly and Gardiner played together a lot under Carlyle and were an effective pairing.

Not sure about how many minutes but a lot more then Maricin did I believe.

Haisney needs to stop playing against anything more then 3rd lines as he is not a D man who holds up against top lines.

Why we are playing poor skating D man on the Pk is crazy.

Marty is not going to play under Babcock so away he goes same as Carrick it seems.

 

[supermann_98]

His Corsi rel and GF% rel against decent competition says otherwise.

Watching him throw the puck up the middle on his backhand or completely miss his man in front of the net says otherwise

 

[ULF_55]

Lost me at DFD.

What does that even mean?

DFD: Data Flow Diagram
ERD: Entity Relationship Diagram

What the Leafs need is a ERD, Excellent Right Defenseman

If Marincin likes Toronto he could sign a good NHL/AHL deal, with good compensation in the minors. Otherwise he'd best see if there is any market for disposable defensemen and move on. He can play, just is unlikely to ever be a late bloomer like Stralman.