Marincin-Zaitsev should be our bottom pair

therealkoho

Him/Leaf/fan
Jul 10, 2009
17,011
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the Prior
Nobody expected that. We were quite clear on what he is. A generally solid defensive player who kills offense and was playing far too many minutes.

As for his defensive game waning. That happened well before Babcock made the change. Both in terms of moving him down the lines AND taking him out of the lineup
exactly Sypher, Babcock was looking for a way for him to find his game just as he did w/Nylander and Marner.

and you've said it yourself "player who kills offense" this tells me there was some sort of expectation deep down to produce at a higher level and that hasn't been his game for a few years, but man is he wily on the kill at least until he got hurt and couldn't push off with his left skate anymore, Johnsson's playing time at that point increased
 

SprDaVE

Moderator
Sep 20, 2008
51,547
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early in the season yes he did, his leg(mind) wasn't ready to give the 100% and so he was relegated to the press box or stapled to the bench in game, in 3rd periods

I'm in no way making a claim that he is a great Dman, he is a 5/6 guy who's a good guy to have on the kill and can use his physical gifts to break cycles. He's 10th in hits per game, he's 16th in blks per game in this years playoffs out of the 111 Dmen credited with appearences and just to add to that tied for 7th in +/- with a +3

he isn't as horrible as a lot of you guys make him out to be, nor is he as slow, if you PVR'd any of last seasons games watch Polak and count the number of times he gets beat to pucks in his own end, you'll be surprised

I don't think he's a good bottom pairing defenseman and the things he brings that he does well doesn't outperform his lack of everything else, which is IQ, any sort of puck skills and skating. He may not be a bad skater in terms of overall speed but his agility is awful.

Hits and blocked shots are hardly anything to bolster since the majority of his meaningful ice time is on the PK, where you generally don't have the puck for obvious reasons.

He doesn't break up cycles at all and I'm not sure we were watching the same games if you think that was his strength. If it was, he wouldn't be one of the worst defenseman in the league, let alone our team, in terms of shot differential. There's no way you can say he's good defensively when while he's on the ice, the team gets pummelled in shots against. If anything, he made almost every situation worst because he wasn't incapable of making plays under pressure and had to ice the puck or give back to puck way too many times.

I liked Polak for awhile. He's physical and will block a shot with his face if he has to. He exhumes grit. Unfortunately, he has regressed badly over the passed couple seasons and he shouldn't be someone that plays regularly just because he can block a shot on the PK. Babcock using him that much is probably one of the big mistakes he made, in my opinion.
 
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darrylsittler27

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Oct 21, 2002
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If we dont seriously upgrade that Defense, Lou and Hunter leaving as well there will be no playoff glory. Sorry dont want to see those 2 on our backend when we play TB,Boston<pitts , Washington etc. By the way Buffalo will be really good soon too.
 

Spirit of 67

Registered User
Nov 25, 2016
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Not to continue to lump on Gardiner, which most of us have been happy to do since the game 7 debacle, but I think obviously this offseason the management team really needs to answer if Gardiner is the type of defenseman we can feel comfortable committing big money to in 1 year. I don't think we can, and if they come to the same conclusion, I believe you have to try and trade him this offseason. Whether that deal nets you another defenseman, or picks and prospects isn't important in my opinion, we'd obviously still have to add through other means, since we ideally need more than 1 upgrade. We could sign someone, or use those picks/prospects in package to acquire someone more suited to our needs, and what we're building.

I believe increasing Zaitsev's opportunities offensively, pairing him with a two-way guy, like a Hainsey, and allowing him to be the offensive mind of his pair will replace a large amount of the offense lost by moving Gardiner, even if perhaps not all.

Rielly - ?????
Zaitsev - Hainsey
Dermott - ?????

as a starting point. In a perfect world, I'd like to see Hainsey pushed down with Dermott, but we'd then need 2 top 4 guys, which doesn't seem likely this summer.
The other problem for Gards is he's basically like Rielly and Dermott. We could use a little variety mixed in.
I said when Mo signed that it probably meant Jake was on his last contract as a Leaf.
 

LEAFANFORLIFE23

Registered User
Jun 17, 2010
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If we dont seriously upgrade that Defense, Lou and Hunter leaving as well there will be no playoff glory. Sorry dont want to see those 2 on our backend when we play TB,Boston<pitts , Washington etc. By the way Buffalo will be really good soon too.


They have been saying that about Buffalo for years
 

lifelonghockeyfan

Registered User
Dec 18, 2015
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Lake Huron
Why are folks throw around the term "3rd pair" like it has any meaning? Generally the so called third pair, do no play the PP and have limited minutes (if possible) on the PK. So that 14 minutes that they do play are pretty significant as most of it is on the regular strength.
So, let's not think, that their minutes are meaningless or can be sheltered for 82 games. Impossible.
I still don't know where Marincin would fit in the lineup. Reilly, Gardiner Dermot seem to be locks at LHD. Leafs are still in developmental mode so I would like to see Borgman get NHL minutes to see if he NHL good so that's another LHD.
We have seen hundreds of good even great AHL Dmen in the past who never make as NHLers. Good luck Marincin but I don't think there is a spot for him as Leaf.
 

Nooodles

Registered User
May 7, 2010
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Geszteréd
7 pages about Marincin and next season.
My question is:

G07bj.gif
 

kb

Registered User
Aug 28, 2009
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Martin Marincin is proof positive that no one should ever rely on "advanced stats" for anything more than a tie-breaker for the eye test.
 
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Kshahdoo

Registered User
Mar 23, 2008
19,148
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Moscow, Russia
Zaitsev didn't look great in the past season, but to his excuse, most nights he was the only defenseman on the ice. That 4-1 system Toronto played, helped to score goals, but it was a huge stress for the guy...
 

Morbo

The Annihilator
Jan 14, 2003
27,100
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Toronto
Marincin isn't an NHLer, and Zaitsev is too expensive to be on the bottom pair -- we'd better hope not, with that kind of term attached.
 
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SeaOfBlue

The Passion That Unites Us All
Aug 1, 2013
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I can see a team giving Marincin a shot for a bottom pairing job. Maybe we just get another veteran in return (i.e. a 3rd goalie or a depth forward) or a later round pick, but we have depth and guys who will occupy his spot. His only job here will be the one he already has.
 

Cor

I am a bot
Jun 24, 2012
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I'm not sure if Marincin has played his way into a chance for next season. I think management are more focused on Rosen & Borgman after Rielly, Gardiner & Dermott.

However Marincin may have played his way into the eyes of another team, and the possibility of us getting something for his RFA rights
 

robertmac43

Forever 43!
Mar 31, 2015
23,096
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Marincin had a solid year but im nit convinced he can make the jump up to the show. I feel like he will become an AHL lifer. His AHL playoffs however should warrant another chance, hopefully he can prove me wrong.
 

MR4

Registered User
Oct 20, 2014
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No wonder Marincin-Zaitsev worked before. Zaitsev's only fault solved by playing with a guy that's elite at denying zone entries.
 
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Scott Malkinson

Registered User
Sep 29, 2017
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I'd rather bring back Anders Eriksson.

He was one of the worst defencemen to play for the Maple Leafs, over the last 30 years.
 

LeafingTheWay

Registered User
May 31, 2014
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The other problem for Gards is he's basically like Rielly and Dermott. We could use a little variety mixed in.
I said when Mo signed that it probably meant Jake was on his last contract as a Leaf.

I would say Rielly and Dermott play very similar styles, while Gardiner plays a different style. Rielly/Dermott are more carry/short-pass players while Gardiner is more long-pass/short-pass type of player. That's why we see Gardiner with those odd-embarrassing giveaways, because he's always looking for the pass option, even if it means forcing a high-risk/high-reward pass (He does carry the puck too, but not as much as the other two do). On the other hand, Rielly/Dermott will go for the carry option if the pass option isn't available.

Click on this, then click on the Leafs logo on the graph. You'll see that Rielly/Dermott do more carrying, while Gardiner relies on his passing. It was a downyear for him IMO, but still good.
Tableau Public

Lilijegren is a mixture between Gardiner and Rielly/Dermott IMO. He does those high-risk/high-reward passes as well as carry the puck. I'm really excited for Lilijegren, think he can be a #1D in this league with that play-style.


We could easily still keep Gardiner IF he accepts a cheaper contract than what he'll get in free-agency.

If we could keep this long-term D-core, oh man.
Rielly - Liljegren ( top-pairing 2020?)
Gardiner - Dermott*
Borgman/Rosen - Zaitsev
 

inthe6ix

Registered User
Oct 3, 2008
5,497
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Toronto, Canada
I'm fine with Marincin as a lifer Marlie.

Please keep him far away from the big club; he has no business (nor talent) to play at the NHL-level.
 

Machinae

Registered User
Jul 6, 2007
1,927
530
Mississauga, ON
Marincin is going to get another crack at the NHL, no doubt about it. Just not with the Leafs. He had his chance, it's time to move on. You already have Rielly / Gardiner / Dermott / Hainsey as LD in the NHL next season, with Borgman and Rosen looking good in the A. There is just no more room to try him again.
 

Eb

Registered User
Feb 27, 2011
7,806
610
Toronto
Trade Gardiner for Tyler Myers. (extra pieces on both sides)

Rielly - Myers
Dermott - Hainsey
Marincin - Zaitsev
 

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