Larry Brooks: Marc Staal wants to stay in New York

[RangerBoy]

Buchnevich has spent his last two summers training in Pennsylvania and New Jersey. His contract expires at the end of this season. At the draft in 2013, Buchnevich said he would come to North America when his contract expires. The Rangers need to trade a contract for futures. Free up the space and get some assets in return. Even if the Canadian dollar was strong, the cap would be $75 million which isn't enough for the Rangers. A loonie on par with the US dollar. Lower cap with a lower dollar. The NHL made the big cap projections when the loonie was on par or worth more than the US dollar.

 

[Trxjw]

You worry about NHLers blocking rookies when the rookies are banging down the door for a spot. Remember last year we absolutely had to buy out Richards because he was blocking JT Miller from taking the #3C spot? When Skjei turns pro and shows he can eat 22 important minutes a night in the NHL, then we can worry about what to do with Staal. Same goes for any other player.

If the Rangers have to cut corners because of salary, I think doing so at the expense of arguably your 2nd best defensemen is a big mistake. I'd sooner let MSL walk as a FA than let cap space dictate whether or not Staal should be moved.

 

[NYR Viper]

I think moving Klein in favor of McIlrath would save enough to get Staal under contract. Klein would return a solid asset or 2 as a veteran on a good term and length deal.

 

[zuckera1]

the difference is in the age when the contract ends. Say it's a 6-year contract. That's 34 vs. 36. While that isn't a huge difference, it's bigger than 28/30. What he gets will be dependent on what the market perception is/will be. Girardi just signed, but I think that the pricing may have changed from February to today for his services, and that will affect Staal's services, as will a hopefully higher cap number. Doesn't mean the Rangers can afford Staal. Just means the asking price, and his eventual market price, will likely increase.

Thanks for the explanation, I understand.

My question was that, even though the market may cause him to make more than Girardi, is he WORTH more than Girardi to us? In my opinion, he's worth more in a trade than to our team at 6 million for the next 6 years.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

You worry about NHLers blocking rookies when the rookies are banging down the door for a spot. Remember last year we absolutely had to buy out Richards because he was blocking JT Miller from taking the #3C spot? When Skjei turns pro and shows he can eat 22 important minutes a night in the NHL, then we can worry about what to do with Staal. Same goes for any other player.

If the Rangers have to cut corners because of salary, I think doing so at the expense of arguably your 2nd best defensemen is a big mistake. I'd sooner let MSL walk as a FA than let cap space dictate whether or not Staal should be moved.

Unfortunately, timing wise, this rarely works out.

Staal's contract is up in less than 11 months. Are we going to know if Skjei is ready by then? Most likely no.

 

[NYR Viper]

Thanks for the explanation, I understand.

My question was that, even though the market may cause him to make more than Girardi, is he WORTH more than Girardi to us? In my opinion, he's worth more in a trade than to our team at 6 million for the next 6 years.

OR, do you sign him for 6 years and then trade him at year 4 for futures at that point

 

[alkurtz]

For all this talk about what we should be paying for a second pair D:

Staal is a first pair D that we are lucky and deep enough to play on the second pair.

This is what separates team in a league where parity is the norm: talent, talent, talent.

 

[NewLife]

Give him the same deal Girardi got

 

[Fletch]

Thanks for the explanation, I understand.

My question was that, even though the market may cause him to make more than Girardi, is he WORTH more than Girardi to us? In my opinion, he's worth more in a trade than to our team at 6 million for the next 6 years.

sorry for the confusion. Tough question. Lots of tough questions. What's his value in the trade market? The most value for a UFA-to-Be would be in a trade to a cup-contending team. Those teams typically do not have the cap space to have a guy like Staal for an entire season and thus he would be a rental after January, or closer to/at the trade deadline. At that point, if he's doing well and the Rangers are contending, do the Rangers trade him (if they are resigned to not signing him) or do they ride it out with him and lose him to free agency?

 

[Beer League Sniper]

Give him the same deal Girardi got

I don't think he takes that knowing he can probably get more on the open market (thanks, Washington). Is post concussion/eye injury Staal really worth that much? I don't know, but the money and term he's going to be looking for makes it a really tough call when factored in with his role on the team.

 

[zuckera1]

OR, do you sign him for 6 years and then trade him at year 4 for futures at that point

That's the ideal plan but the problem is the math probably won't work next year if he comes in at 6 million (with Zucc/Stepan/Hagelin up). Unless a big piece like Nash is moved or St. Louis takes a huge discount (possible), it'll be even tighter next year.

 

[zuckera1]

sorry for the confusion. Tough question. Lots of tough questions. What's his value in the trade market? The most value for a UFA-to-Be would be in a trade to a cup-contending team. Those teams typically do not have the cap space to have a guy like Staal for an entire season and thus he would be a rental after January, or closer to/at the trade deadline. At that point, if he's doing well and the Rangers are contending, do the Rangers trade him (if they are resigned to not signing him) or do they ride it out with him and lose him to free agency?

Good points. I think we'll have to wait and see but unfortunately this may turn into another Callahan situation.

In a perfect world, we package him with another piece (JT Miller/McIlrath) before the season starts for a young C and a decent LD. I liked the Staal + Miller for Kadri + Gardiner proposal but I doubt that will happen now.

At this point, it may be more valuable to keep him for the entire season if we can't get an upgrade during the season that will help us THIS year (win now). Sather won't trade Staal for a pick and a prospect when we're contending at the deadline.

 

[jerseyjinx94]

I just don't see a way to re-sign Staal, Zucc, MSL, Stepan, and Hagelin under the cap. At least one of those players won't be there next year.

 

[NewLife]

I don't think he takes that knowing he can probably get more on the open market (thanks, Washington). Is post concussion/eye injury Staal really worth that much? I don't know, but the money and term he's going to be looking for makes it a really tough call when factored in with his role on the team.

Of course he does but if he wants to stay he also have to know that the Rangers won't pay him much more. When you are about to sign a contract worth 35m dollars you have to think about more than just the money.

 

[Kovalev27]

Staal between 5 and 6 is a no brainer

Cap will go up

Klein u prob move and insert a kid

We'll be fine.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

I just don't see a way to re-sign Staal, Zucc, MSL, Stepan, and Hagelin under the cap. At least one of those players won't be there next year.

I dont know why you would want to see a way at this point. Let them play next season and the decisions will become a bit clearer.

 

[zuckera1]

Staal between 5 and 6 is a no brainer

Cap will go up

Klein u prob move and insert a kid

We'll be fine.

I agree with you. If we could get him at 5.5 or 5.75 at 6-7 years, I'd sign that deal if I were the Rangers. However, I believe he'll command 6-6.5 and that's out of our price range unfortunately.

 

[RangerBoy]

The Rangers could have had Stepan for much less than $6 million last summer. They could have moved Boyle and his $1.7 million to free up the space. McDonagh got $4.7 million which includes 3 group years. Subban didn't want $9 million from the Habs two years ago. He signed the two year bridge contract and got more than he wanted in a long-term contract. Stepan got $3.075M for 2. Add Boyle's money. That's what McDonagh got. Now the Rangers will pay more.

 

[pld459666]

Those 1st rounders will hurt in 3-4 years, not now. They wouldn't be contributing anytime soon.

In Staal's case, I just can't get over how many fans are willing to take a leap of faith rather than nail down a proven player.

2013 1st hurts 3-4 years - 15-16 and 16-17
2014 - 16-17 / 17-18

In Staal's case, I can't see the justification in 6 million or better that it could take to retain his services.

 

[Tawnos]

2013 1st hurts 3-4 years - 15-16 and 16-17
2014 - 16-17 / 17-18

In Staal's case, I can't see the justification in 6 million or better that it could take to retain his services.

Just out of curiosity, and this question is for anyone... what caliber of defenseman is worth $6m as a UFA?

 

[zuckera1]

Just out of curiosity, and this question is for anyone... what caliber of defenseman is worth $6m as a UFA?

Healthy Staal is probably worth 6. Given his injury history and relative age (6-7 years means you'll get him between ages 28-34, he won't be as good on the back half of the deal), it's a big risk to allocate that many cap dollars to a guy who doesn't produce offense for a long long time.

Healthy Staal > Healthy Girardi

But Girardi doesn't miss a game and plays the right side, the side where defenders are at more of a premium.

To us, Staal isn't worth a dime more than Girardi's 6 years 5.5 deal. Unfortunately, the market will pay him 6 and he's not worth that to us. You add the fact that his playing style doesn't fit AV's system and this becomes ever more apparent. We have nice prospects coming up on the back end. Trade him.

 

[Tawnos]

... you didn't answer my question. I wasn't asking specifically about Staal.

 

[zuckera1]

... you didn't answer my question. I wasn't asking specifically about Staal.

Jay Bouwmeester/Brent Seabrook type. Orpick is highly overpaid, as is MacDonald.

 

[Tawnos]

Jay Bouwmeester/Brent Seabrook type. Orpick is highly overpaid, as is MacDonald.

Bouwmeester and Seabrook are 1st pair defensemen, but not number 1s. In Seabrook's case, he's a fairly 1 dimensional one. Bouwmeester signed his contract after 3 seasons of not looking like a 1st pair defenseman... at all. That description, "not #1, but first pair," pretty easily applies to Marc Staal.

Orpik is certainly overpaid, but only because he's paid for what he was, which was a 1-dimensional 1st pair D, as opposed to what he his, which is a #4 D.

 

[pld459666]

Just out of curiosity, and this question is for anyone... what caliber of defenseman is worth $6m as a UFA?

A Staal type player that posts 30+ points a year.

An above average defenceman that can be a threat offensively.

Staal pre-concussion, pre-eye injury would have been that guy as his numbers were getting there. 29 points in his last full season before the injuries started to add up.

Trajectory was looking up. I'm not going to say that he's now trending down, but unless he shows that he can get back to those totals (which I don't believe he can) his career will have plateaued as an above average defensive defenceman with limited offensive capabilities.

Personally speaking, I'm not in favor of keeping him at anything above what Dan G got at 5.5.

I just don't think you pay that kind of premium for one dimensional defensive player regardless of how good some may believe he is in that one dimension.