Marc Bergevin - More Excuses Needed... Edition Pt 2

[Habs Halifax]

Is that any different that the people consistently providing the same amount of defending regardless of good or bad summer?

I'll give 100% of respect to those who can talk about the good and the bad and avoid bashing, hate, and frustration with their evaluation. Both sides are guilty of supporting their side too much. There are no winners or losers here in this war. If he fails, the Habs fail so is that a good situation? NO.

I know he was not fired in past seasons due to the money Molson would have to write off. If you disagree, this makes Molson look even worse cause he is scared to find a replacement.

Bergevin roller coaster ride is on a up swing (like it or not) so if his youth movement turns us into the best team we had in over a decade, then he deserves to stay. Don't you think? Or are you never going to forgive him for the questionable moves he made 2 or 3 seasons ago?

 

[Guns n Roses]

Ya ya...everyone just hates Bergevin so much they can't have a conversation. Time for you to change your record. You do that everytime when you don't know how to counter arguments. Everyone knows it.

The Bergevin syndrome.

 

[Kriss E]

I'll give 100% of respect to those who can talk about the good and the bad and avoid bashing, hate, and frustration with their evaluation. Both sides are guilty of supporting their side too much. There are no winners or losers here in this war. If he fails, the Habs fail so is that a good situation? NO.

No you haven't. You've tried to paint many posters here who have given credit to Bergevin for the good but still think he's terrible as irrational haters. Heck, you even admitted as much a few posts up to WS.

And btw, Bergevin has failed, you just don't want to say it because he's still around so you want to wait...and wait....and wait....until he's one day let go. Only then will you say whether or not he's failed.
The guy has missed the POs 3 out of 4 years and you still think ''he's not that bad''. Lol.

I know he was not fired in past seasons due to the money Molson would have to write off. If you disagree, this makes Molson look even worse cause he is scared to find a replacement.

Actually you don't know that, it's just your opinion. Reality is Molson has never been stingy on spending extra cash. He's fired a bunch of coaches before, he's agreed to pay for buyouts, he's spent to the cap, he's agreed to major contracts, and Mtl is one of the teams with the most scouts in the NHL showing yet again how Molson spares no expenses.
You have absolutely no basis to think Molson didn't fire Bergevin because he wouldn't want to spend money. None.

Bergevin roller coaster ride is on a up swing (like it or not) so if his youth movement turns us into the best team we had in over a decade, then he deserves to stay. Don't you think? Or are you never going to forgive him for the questionable moves he made 2 or 3 seasons ago?

No he doesn't deserve to stay. He's failed and lead us to our second worst stretch in close to a century. To you, that's ''not that bad'', to others it's rightfully unacceptable.
Now, if this was a planned strategy over 4 years, well he'd get a pass. It wasn't. His ''plans'' failed so he doesn't deserve to stay at all.

 

[BLONG7]

You are taking the high critical approach and I get it. But what you don't realize is you do the same thing to the next GM and the Habs continue on with the 5, 6, 7 GM recycle program and we never become cup contenders cause the plan is always changing and we don't stick with one.

Bergevin said he would build through the draft. His 2012 and 2013 picks didn't turn out like they should. Bad picks in bad draft years for the most part. Yeah, he traded a few 2nd's. What GM doesn't do this? Fast forward to 7 years and he has one of the youngest group of players supported by very good vets and one of the best propsect pools. Prospects who are actually developing well in their draft +1 and +2 years. Go ahead, compare that to before and try to say it's the same hope

Team direction goes a long way with keeping a GM or firing him. Like it or not, our team direction is on a good road. So he is here to say for 12 more months.

So, you and Geoff Mol$on are the only two that think keeping him for stability reasons is the way to go? And of course money owed to him...brutal.

Again, we will agree to disagree.

 

[Hins77]

My question to geof molson will be : Why are you keeping a GM who’s said that he has difficulty to make a trade, doesnt believe about UFA, Unable to keep his best piece (radu/markov) and believe only about draft whos been awful since he came. Somebody can give me an answer abouto that?

 

[ahmedou]

Marc Bergevin - More Excuses Needed... Edition

 

[Deluded Puck]

It most certainly was.

MVP, Vezina, Hart Pearson winner
Norris winner
3rd overall
39 goal scorer
Gallagher

All on the sunny side of 25

Then add in Markov, Plek, Eller... great core to start with.

Stop pretending like he had nothing to work with. He got the absolute least out of that core that he could. He hired the worst coach in the league and killed the team. He should've been made to wear a cape at head office so he could be super fired.

The excuse making is sickening.

2103-16 you could win a cup with Price in goal.

You can also win a cup with Subban, Markov and Petry as your top 3 D

You can win a cup with Plekanec and Eller as your 2nd and 3rd C’s

You can win a cup with Pacioretty and Gallagher as 2 out of your 3 best wingers.

We lacked a no1C and a modern coach. Imagine upgrading Therrien and Desharnais whilst adding Radulov to that group for 2017. What if... what if.

 

[Runner77]

View attachment 216365

The Bergevin syndrome.

 

[Andy]

I'm okay with MB on board for another year.

I agree with those posters that say there are quite a good few pieces on this club. I also agree with those that say that there are a lot of question marks still outstanding.

This year was positive, but the future is still quite uncertain. I can easily see this team flounder next season as much as I can see them finishing top 5 in the east.

I guess the real question is whether MB should be the man for the job. Prior to this season, my answer would have been a definite no, but I guess I've accepted that Molson trusts him and that he's not going anywhere. Can MB do it? I don't know, he's been a mixed bag GM. He's been both great in short spurts and not so great in others. When I talk about question marks going into the next season, he's one of them. From a micro player transaction perspective, he's never done anything really egregious and has come up with some pretty good moves. His ability to put it all together has been lacking since day 1. We'll see if he's learned next season.

 

[Apoplectic Habs Fan]

He has hit 1 for 7 in the offseason, addressing needs of the team...he has been for years, in over his head. Tire fire of a GM.

He has 1 good summer, and you are calling him a good GM? The MT thing was beyond a bad move...in every other NHL city he would have been fired by now. If his last name was Smith, he would have been fired by now...

We will agree to disagree...we can't fire this clown soon enough. Would love to be wrong, but will not hold my breath on this clown understanding and evaluating what needs to be done...drafting at 15 and leaving 9M on the table and not making the playoffs cinched it for me.

Give Bergy 15 yrs. Thats what it looks like some are asking

 

[Runner77]

When the GM won't GM, then count on Price to call it as it is.

 

[Runner77]

Of course, Bergevin has said he doesn’t believe in a window of opportunity. This is the Orwellian world of the Canadiens organization. Failure is success, just like the powers-that-be in George Orwell’s 1984 used to proclaim war is peace. This is the same GM who prefers the word “reset” to “rebuild,” but never explains exactly what a reset is.

Since he won’t explain it, I will. Reset means you don’t really make a plan. You try to make the playoffs, but you don’t make any bold moves at the trade deadline that would actually get you there. Reset means you provide a fun and exciting show, but still end up in what can be described as the worst position in hockey — in ninth place, out of the playoffs and right into a middle-of-the-pack draft pick.

But, hey, he’s just getting started!

What the Puck: Canadiens 'just getting started' on a new five-year plan

 

[Censored Toad]

My question to geof molson will be : Why are you keeping a GM who’s said that he has difficulty to make a trade, doesnt believe about UFA, Unable to keep his best piece (radu/markov) and believe only about draft whos been awful since he came. Somebody can give me an answer abouto that?

your answers sir

"If you knew what I knew.... then you'd know why I did the things I did. Only I know what I know and unfortunately I cannot share what I know except that I know what I know." -Marc B.

"That's second guessing" -Meeesheellll T.

"Better food experience (Hotdawgs) at the bell center and no stone un-turned" -Money Molson

 

[76]

Seriously, some fans still don't understand what a reset is vs a rebuild? Wow
Where were you the last 10 months?

Habs didnt win with the previous group, and decided to change by trading some bad leaders who had the wrong attitude. They kept the best leaders in place and turned the team into a new group of players while getting younger.
Instead of putting hope in a longer rebuild process, within a year, Habs are now in an amazing position to compete again with the best teams in the league while having one of the best prospects pool.

The reset is at this time nothing less than a success and the team should keep climbing the rankings as soon as next season and battle with the best for many years to come. They are, surprisingly or not, damn close with all the teams actually in the playoffs.
Have a great summer Habs fans, things are looking really good for the future.

 

[Kriss E]

I'm okay with MB on board for another year.

I agree with those posters that say there are quite a good few pieces on this club. I also agree with those that say that there are a lot of question marks still outstanding.

This year was positive, but the future is still quite uncertain. I can easily see this team flounder next season as much as I can see them finishing top 5 in the east.

I guess the real question is whether MB should be the man for the job. Prior to this season, my answer would have been a definite no, but I guess I've accepted that Molson trusts him and that he's not going anywhere. Can MB do it? I don't know, he's been a mixed bag GM. He's been both great in short spurts and not so great in others. When I talk about question marks going into the next season, he's one of them. From a micro player transaction perspective, he's never done anything really egregious and has come up with some pretty good moves. His ability to put it all together has been lacking since day 1. We'll see if he's learned next season.

Well doesn't that answer your question? How many more years of flip flopping between good and no good do you need to observe to understand he isn't cut out for the job?
I really fail to understand the logic of some posters here, no offense Andy. But does a GM have to be absolute garbage like Dorion or Chiarelli and completely ruin their franchise in order to see they're not good?
Gainey had some good moments and had some bad ones too, but we can all agree his time had come.
Why is it different for Bergevin? Sure, he's done some good things...so? He's also done terrible things and he's lead us to missing the POs 3 out of 4 years. How do you still ''don't know'' if MB can do it? Of course he cannot.
You say yourself his ability to put it together has been lacking since day 1. We're now around Day 2500 and you still waiting to see if he's learned?...

 

[NotProkofievian]

Okay, @TooLegitToQuit and @jaffy27 now that you have shared your ultimata in the out of town thread for Julien BriseBois, what do you actually want out of Bergevin for this season?

 

[Kriss E]

Seriously, some fans still don't understand what a reset is vs a rebuild? Wow
Where were you the last 10 months?

Habs didnt win with the previous group, and decided to change by trading some bad leaders who had the wrong attitude. They kept the best leaders in place and turned the team into a new group of players while getting younger.
Instead of putting hope in a longer rebuild process, within a year, Habs are now in an amazing position to compete again with the best teams in the league while having one of the best prospects pool.

The reset is at this time nothing less than a success and the team should keep climbing the rankings as soon as next season and battle with the best for many years to come. They are, surprisingly or not, damn close with all the teams actually in the playoffs.
Have a great summer Habs fans, things are looking really good for the future.

 

[Andy]

Well doesn't that answer your question? How many more years of flip flopping between good and no good do you need to observe to understand he isn't cut out for the job?
I really fail to understand the logic of some posters here, no offense Andy. But does a GM have to be absolute garbage like Dorion or Chiarelli and completely ruin their franchise in order to see they're not good?
Gainey had some good moments and had some bad ones too, but we can all agree his time had come.
Why is it different for Bergevin? Sure, he's done some good things...so? He's also done terrible things and he's lead us to missing the POs 3 out of 4 years. How do you still ''don't know'' if MB can do it? Of course he cannot.
You say yourself his ability to put it together has been lacking since day 1. We're now around Day 2500 and you still waiting to see if he's learned?...

I totally get what you're saying, and I largely agree.

I'm just trying to work with the context here in that MB is not going anywhere. He's the team's GM next year.

His macro planning has not been good since day 1. His micro transactions have been largely good, though it begs the question of what's the point of making good individual moves if they never sum up to team success.

The team has good pieces and legitimate questions. Among those questions is MB's ability. Indeed, the past has shown that he's been unable to put it all together.

I guess because we will have MB as a GM next year, I have to be hopeful and optimistic that he will learn from the past and bring it together.

That being said, I totally think your position is legitimate.

 

[jaffy27]

Okay, @TooLegitToQuit and @jaffy27 now that you have shared your ultimata in the out of town thread for Julien BriseBois, what do you actually want out of Bergevin for this season?

I’ve already mentioned it in another thread but for you no problem

LHD upgrade
One of the prized UFA’s
Improve the PP (a coaching thing)

I like Nelson, Panarin, Karlsson

I’d also like to see a trade to move out a few wingers for a better quality player at LHD if we can’t sign one or trade a few for a top end winger

 

[Kriss E]

I totally get what you're saying, and I largely agree.

I'm just trying to work with the context here in that MB is not going anywhere. He's the team's GM next year.

His macro planning has not been good since day 1. His micro transactions have been largely good, though it begs the question of what's the point of making good individual moves if they never sum up to team success.

The team has good pieces and legitimate questions. Among those questions is MB's ability. Indeed, the past has shown that he's been unable to put it all together.

I guess because we will have MB as a GM next year, I have to be hopeful and optimistic that he will learn from the past and bring it together.

That being said, I totally think your position is legitimate.

The only thing I can hope for is for the team to stink and MB to get fired. I'm not going to hope for some miracle that this bozo saw the light and suddenly developed the ability to properly plan and structure his team. The longer he stays the worse it is as we will continuously not be contenders.

I can't hope for someone who I have 0 belief in to do better. It just won't happen.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Okay, @TooLegitToQuit and @jaffy27 now that you have shared your ultimata in the out of town thread for Julien BriseBois, what do you actually want out of Bergevin for this season?

- To explore the market and see if we can add one of Karlsson, Panarin, Duchene, or Skinner. I think Jaffy27 wants us to sign Nelson but I think that has risks. Do not make another Alzner type signing cause we have cap space. Edler could be a option but only go for the 2 or 3 year term

- Talk to Tampa and dangle a Juulsen and a 2nd for Sergachev and Callahan. They desperately need cap space, Sergachev is stuck on the 3rd pairing, and they need RD help. For what's it's worth, I had one Tampa fan say he would make this move.

- Have a good draft and see if we can make some trades to add to our grade A prospect pool. I don't expect us to hit on a grade A prospect in the 2nd round for 3 drafts in a row. Our picks are 50th ish, not 31-40.

I don't expect much based on our youth movement path we are on. Make moves that makes sense in terms of our future, don't try to force a move just cause we feel we have to make one.

 

[NotProkofievian]

I’ve already mentioned it in another thread but for you no problem

Ca c'est un vrai!

LHD upgrade
One of the prized UFA’s
Improve the PP (a coaching thing)

I like Nelson, Panarin, Karlsson

I’d also like to see a trade to move out a few wingers for a better quality player at LHD if we can’t sign one or trade a few for a top end winger

Panarin's muh boi, but he ain't comin to Canada unless it's Toronto or Vancouver apparently. The way Karlsson's playing recently scares the shit out of me. Not sure I wanna pay him 12. I would gladly pay Panarin a lot of money to come here, though.

Buy low candidate is Gustav Nyquist. We already had one red wings retread do well here, why not try another?

Personally, though, I think we need to plan for the future. Weber's best days are behind him, as good as he can remain at this point. We need to start asking ourselves if we want to use a protection slot on a 36 year old.

 

[habsfan891]

When the GM won't GM, then count on Price to call it as it is.

Wonder who Price is referencing with that comment.

 

[jaffy27]

Ca c'est un vrai!



Panarin's muh boi, but he ain't comin to Canada unless it's Toronto or Vancouver apparently. The way Karlsson's playing recently scares the **** out of me. Not sure I wanna pay him 12. I would gladly pay Panarin a lot of money to come here, though.

Buy low candidate is Gustav Nyquist. We already had one red wings retread do well here, why not try another?

Personally, though, I think we need to plan for the future. Weber's best days are behind him, as good as he can remain at this point. We need to start asking ourselves if we want to use a protection slot on a 36 year old.

Nyquist is nice.......we just need to make bold changes, something that’ll get people’s attention.

Ya, Karlsson at 12m$ is a big no for me.

His current playoff and injury history should keep that price tag down.....j’espère au moin

 

[Kriss E]

Of course, Bergevin has said he doesn’t believe in a window of opportunity. This is the Orwellian world of the Canadiens organization. Failure is success, just like the powers-that-be in George Orwell’s 1984 used to proclaim war is peace. This is the same GM who prefers the word “reset” to “rebuild,” but never explains exactly what a reset is.

Since he won’t explain it, I will. Reset means you don’t really make a plan. You try to make the playoffs, but you don’t make any bold moves at the trade deadline that would actually get you there. Reset means you provide a fun and exciting show, but still end up in what can be described as the worst position in hockey — in ninth place, out of the playoffs and right into a middle-of-the-pack draft pick.

But, hey, he’s just getting started!

What the Puck: Canadiens 'just getting started' on a new five-year plan

Ya I still can't believe Bergevin stood there and said ''we're just getting started''....after finishing his 7th year..Insane how much BS he gets away with.