The Star: Maple Leafs: Shanahan's gut tells him to go slow: DiManno

[hullsy47]

Well Kessel #2 (17:30), Bozak #4 (17:03) and JVR #9 (16:27) in ES TOI/g in the NHL last year.

All 3 in the top 10.

So how many less goals or points will they score if 2 minutes is deducted and how many less goals against will they be on for also via less TOI/g.

Will the 3rd and 4th liners be able to compensate for the losses of offense?.

more ice time doesnt mean a whole lot more production ...u want your stars to be able to play the last 5 minutes ,not be GASSED kessel unless hes been with gary robrerts since april plays too many minutes for his fitness level .......shanny knows

 

[schenneuf]

Rolling 4 lines means more icetime for role/support players and less icetime for star players.

More Holland and Komarov and less Kessel and Kadri etc.

That will be interesting to see how it effects the team results and the individual players stats.

I believe it will pay huge dividends in the long run. Face it, our top players were gassed last year towards the end of the season (if not sooner) due to Carlyle's reluctance to play the 4th line much at all, which meant too much ice time for the core players. We may not see the results right away, but I expect to notice a difference in the latter part of the season in the form of more energy from everyone due to not being run down from having had to play extended minutes almost every game.

 

[varano]

Going slow is a great idea. Maybe we can get into the playoffs again in 2019.

Watching Jim Benning and trevor linden rebuild the canucks makes me understand that shanahan and nonis have no intention on building a winning team.

 

[SprDaVE]

Going slow is a great idea. Maybe we can get into the playoffs again in 2019.

Watching Jim Benning and trevor linden rebuild the canucks makes me understand that shanahan and nonis have no intention on building a winning team.

Yeah, they have aboslutely no intention of building a winning team.

The Leafs are in this to lose all the time.

 

[hotpaws]

Going slow is a great idea. Maybe we can get into the playoffs again in 2019.

Watching Jim Benning and trevor linden rebuild the canucks makes me understand that shanahan and nonis have no intention on building a winning team.

This is the end result of Burke's failed accelerated retool .

 

[Northern Dancer]

This thread is a laugh. Some real good comedy here.

 

[KuleminFan41]

Not dire?, why do you say that?

Why have you completely ignored everyone?

Leafs have 12.6 million in cap space. That's hardly "dire" by any means

 

[Joey Hoser]

I understand the point of taking the patient approach, but it's really hard to watch what this team has done in the past few years/decades, ask what will be done about it and get "Oh, not much." as a response.

 

[Mess]

I believe it will pay huge dividends in the long run. Face it, our top players were gassed last year towards the end of the season (if not sooner) due to Carlyle's reluctance to play the 4th line much at all, which meant too much ice time for the core players. We may not see the results right away, but I expect to notice a difference in the latter part of the season in the form of more energy from everyone due to not being run down from having had to play extended minutes almost every game.

Perhaps after Shanny's evaluation he recognized this and perhaps pinpointed Leafs season ending collapses are due to fatigue.

So he is patiently staying the course with similar player personnel at the core only adding support players that they feel are capable of taking minutes away from the Kessel line to allow it to conserve energy particularly late in games and towards the end of the season.

It seems going slow is the plan and tweaking rather than overhauling to address the problem.

 

[Tyler Biggs*]

He's doing it the Detroit way, the Wings went from rock bottom to the top of the NHL, Detroit has a very good farm system in place, I think Shanahan is doing it right....may take longer, but he'll get it in the right direction.

 

[Mess]

Why have you completely ignored everyone?

Leafs have 12.6 million in cap space. That's hardly "dire" by any means

& getting Franson, Reimer, Gardiner, Holland and Ashton re-signed should consume about ~$11 mil, leaving the Leafs with approx $1.5 mil breathing room on the season.

 

[Joey Hoser]

& getting Franson, Reimer, Gardiner, Holland and Ashton re-signed should consume about ~$11 mil, leaving the Leafs with approx $1.5 mil breathing room on the season.

Yeah... Thats not dire. "Dire" generally indicates a problem.

 

[KuleminFan41]

& getting Franson, Reimer, Gardiner, Holland and Ashton re-signed should consume about ~$11 mil, leaving the Leafs with approx $1.5 mil breathing room on the season.

That also depends on if the Leafs want to keep Franson and Reimer though,I can see one if not both traded. Is Ashton able to sign a 2-way deal or is that over now?

 

[FerrisRox]

Kudos to Shanahan for telling it like it is in the world's hungriest --some would say most impatient-- hockey market.

I would say the exact opposite. This is, by far, the most patient hockey - or even sports - market in North America.

I can't think of a single other market that would idly stand by while the management did so little and not only continue going to the games, but actually start each season telling itself "this is a playoff team!" No matter what management does, or doesn't do, hope springs eternal in Toronto and the team, the players, the management are given more rope.

To suggest that this is an impatient market - when the team has made the playoff once in a decade and it's had zero affect on attendance or the pressure the management or players are under - is absolutely absurd.

 

[gravyface]

& getting Franson, Reimer, Gardiner, Holland and Ashton re-signed should consume about ~$11 mil, leaving the Leafs with approx $1.5 mil breathing room on the season.

I think they'll have ~3M left and even more if Franson gets 3.5M awarded, which the Leafs will walk away from (and he knows it).

 

[hotpaws]

He's doing it the Detroit way, the Wings went from rock bottom to the top of the NHL, Detroit has a very good farm system in place, I think Shanahan is doing it right....may take longer, but he'll get it in the right direction.

WTF is the Det way ?

The wings drafted high ( Yzerman ) and then drafted one of the top D's in the history of the game and other stars with mid to late rd picks ( Lidstrom/Dats/Zett ) and rode that for a couple of decades .

Unless we're hiding a Yzerman/Lidstrom/Dats/Zett somewhere in our system i don't see how we are remotely doing it the Det way .

 

[Mess]

That also depends on if the Leafs want to keep Franson and Reimer though,I can see one if not both traded. Is Ashton able to sign a 2-way deal or is that over now?

Will find out soon what Franson and Reimer new contracts are as the arbitrator decides them in the next couple weeks.

However while I agree they might well be traded they will also need to be replaced as well at their positions. You can't trade Reimer without bringing in another backup goalie.

 

[gravyface]

It would take a long essay form write out to explain to you how wrong you are that I really don't want to do. May I suggest if there's a way go back and watch the Leafs play against inferior opponents like Florida, Buffalo, Calgary. Those teams rolled lines as well yet they out played the Leafs, spent more time in the offensive zone, forchecked which lead to them outshooting the Leafs & even beat the Leafs with less talent due to them not being micromanaged.

This isn't new from Randy Carlyle teams. He was fired from Anaheim do to it was taxing & getting in the way from the players abilities to play with instinct. This game is way too fast as it is. When your instinct is taken from you, you become a reactive team that struggles with puck possession.

Yup, rolling four lines was how the last contending Leafs' teams were able to score by committee (remember how many 20 goal scorers we could boast at one time?) and keep the other team's honest.

Seems like it's still the way to go: just look at the Rangers, Boston, LA, Chicago, Ducks, etc.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=720192

 

[Northern Dancer]

WTF is the Det way ?

The wings drafted high ( Yzerman ) and then drafted one of the top D's in the history of the game and other stars with mid to late rd picks ( Lidstrom/Dats/Zett ) and rode that for a couple of decades .

Unless we're hiding a Yzerman/Lidstrom/Dats/Zett somewhere in our system i don't see how we are remotely doing it the Det way .

Yzerman was drafted in 1983, Wings won Stanley Cup in 1997, now that was a SLOW re-build.

 

[gravyface]

Will find out soon what Franson and Reimer new contracts are as the arbitrator decides them in the next couple weeks.

However while I agree they might well be traded they will also need to be replaced as well at their positions. You can't trade Reimer without bringing in another backup goalie.

From Mirtle, but I think this is plausible:

CAPGEEK.COM ARMCHAIR GM ROSTER
Leafs projected roster July 11
FORWARDS
James Van Riemsdyk ($4.250m) / Tyler Bozak ($4.200m) / Phil Kessel ($8.000m)
Joffrey Lupul ($5.250m) / Nazem Kadri ($2.900m) / Mike Santorelli ($1.500m)
Leo Komarov ($2.950m) / Petri Kontiola ($1.100m) / David Clarkson ($5.250m)
Troy Bodie ($0.600m) / Peter Holland ($0.851m) / Matt Frattin ($0.800m)
Trevor Smith ($0.550m) / Carter Ashton ($0.851m)
DEFENSEMEN
Dion Phaneuf ($7.000m) / Stephane Robidas ($3.000m)
Jake Gardiner ($2.800m) / Cody Franson ($2.600m)
Morgan Rielly ($0.894m) / Roman Polak ($2.750m)
Petter Granberg ($0.800m)
GOALTENDERS
Jonathan Bernier ($2.900m)
James Reimer ($2.500m)
BUYOUTS
Mike Komisarek ($0.000m)
Mikhail Grabovski ($0.000m)
Tim Gleason ($0.833m)
RETAINED SALARIES (0.29% of upper limit)
Carl Gunnarsson ($0.200m—6.35%)
BONUS OVERAGE
$450,000
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(estimations for 2014-15)
SALARY CAP: $69,000,000; CAP PAYROLL: $65,778,500; BONUSES: $950,000
CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $3,221,500

 

[hotpaws]

Yzerman was drafted in 1983, Wings won Stanley Cup in 1997, now that was a SLOW re-build.

and based on that criteria we've been building since '67

The funny thing is you were all in favor of Burke's quickie retool and believed we didn't need to be patient in 08 .

 

[Mess]

Yzerman was drafted in 1983, Wings won Stanley Cup in 1997, now that was a SLOW re-build.

But they also have now made the playoffs in 23 consecutive years and counting by building a team structure that is playoff and cup competitive annually. The last time Red Wings fans didn't get to see their team play a playoff game was 1989-90.

If the Leafs made the playoffs for over 2 decades straight and took a run at the Cup each and every season than I think the patience level would be much higher as well for Leaf Nation.

Toronto fans have seen 1 playoff series (that ended badly) in the last decade and that was a result of a lockout shortened season.

 

[Northern Dancer]

and based on that criteria we've been building since '67

You mean we are the quintessential example of the "proper" re-build ?

 

[cookie]

Those aren't my eggs .. I just pulled those figures straight from NHL.com as to what actually happened last year.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats....=avgEvenStrengthTOIPerGame&viewName=timeOnIce

Being too tired might be the very reason why no NHL line gets more scored against at ES than Leafs top trio does.. 82 ES goals against in 82 games last year.

This chart actually tells a lot about the modern hockey team. If you are a successful team, the bulk of the ES minutes go to the highly-skilled two-way players like Koivu, Zet+Datsyuk, Krejci. It's either them or the elite offensive threats like P.Kane and S.Crosby. We have a comparable elite offensive talent in Kessel, but we also have Bozak and JVR taking up a lot of the ES minutes.

FWIW, the first line was a net positive in ES GA and ES GF last season. Maybe less time can help increase that.

 

[ACC1224]

But they also have now made the playoffs in 23 consecutive years and counting by building a team structure that is playoff and cup competitive annually. The last time Red Wings fans didn't get to see their team play a playoff game was 1989-90.

If the Leafs made the playoffs for over 2 decades straight and took a run at the Cup each and every season than I think the patience level would be much higher as well for Leaf Nation.

Toronto fans have seen 1 playoff series (that ended badly) in the last decade and that was a result of a lockout shortened season.

Not matter what the scenario, Leaf fans, for the most part, have very little patience.